Suns updates and discussion for the 2021-22 season

[Mainstreet]

More from Adrian Wojnarowski.

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[Mainstreet]

I feared 4y/$100m and wanted 4y/$80m so I'm happy with 4y/$90m.

James Jones has done a great job with everyone else's contracts this offseason. I'm really curious what the issue with Ayton is now. Even if he's not extended, I'd call this offseason a B+.

I'm glad Bridge's extension is done. Extending both next off season would have been a tough task.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm glad Bridge's extension is done. Extending both next off season would have been a tough task.

I started getting worried someone would throw the max at him. He's good and I don't think a team would regret it very much but the Suns couldn't afford to pay that. This also keeps his salary more manageable in the future. Usually when a player is maxed then that is the bar they always look at, kind of like Marion back in the day. Worth the rookie max, not the max at 28. That second max should be reserved for legit All-Stars who can be a teams #1, IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

I started getting worried someone would throw the max at him. He's good and I don't think a team would regret it very much but the Suns couldn't afford to pay that. This also keeps his salary more manageable in the future. Usually when a player is maxed then that is the bar they always look at, kind of like Marion back in the day. Worth the rookie max, not the max at 28. That second max should be reserved for legit All-Stars who can be a teams #1, IMO.

Bridges is definitely worth $90 million over four years. Giving Ayton the max is much more risky although I want it to get done.

This way the Suns are sure to keep at least one of the two long term.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Bridges is definitely worth $90 million over four years. Giving Ayton the max is much more risky although I want it to get done.

This way the Suns are sure to keep at least one of the two.

I think having a good well-rounded center is more important than having a good 2 way small forward but with Mikal, you know the year around effort you're going to get. Ayton has the potential to be a generational center but he's given us reasons to question whether he has the heart and head to make that happen. I'd pay them both but I'll worry far more about DA living up to his deal than I will Mikal.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think having a good well-rounded center is more important than having a good 2 way small forward but with Mikal, you know the year around effort you're going to get. Ayton has the potential to be a generational center but he's given us reasons to question whether he has the heart and head to make that happen. I'd pay them both but I'll worry far more about DA living up to his deal than I will Mikal.

It's like when the Suns drafted Steve Nash, he was considered the "safe choice." That's Mikal.

Certainly Ayton has the higher upside but the financial risk is much greater. If push comes to shove Ayton should offer good trade value.

I'm still hoping Deandre gets extended though. I haven't lost confidence in him. However, I understand it's more risky.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's like when the Suns drafted Steve Nash, he was considered the "safe choice." That's Mikal.

Certainly Ayton has the higher upside but the financial risk is much greater. If push comes to shove Ayton should offer good trade value.

I'm still hoping Deandre gets extended though. I haven't lost confidence in him. However, I understand it's more risky.

If all the Suns got from that draft was Ayton, it could be viewed as disappointing. Not that I think he's a bust but they had the #1 overall pick in one of the best draft classes in decades and got a solid starting Center. Adding Mikal really added to the success of that draft for the Suns. It cost us a future pick, that was owed to us, so it was a solid use of assets to double down in that draft because there hasn't been a draft since where having that extra pick would have tipped the scales in our favor.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns have discussed a deal with Landry Shamet. I wondering if this is picking up the option or something more.

I'd like to get Shamet financials done.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns have discussed a deal with Landry Shamet. I wondering if this is picking up the option or something more.

I didn't really know much about him when we traded for him but I've been very impressed so far. Not that the preseason means anything but it's enough to raise my hopes so I hope we can get a deal done.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't really know much about him when we traded for him but I've been very impressed so far. Not that the preseason means anything but it's enough to raise my hopes so I hope we can get a deal done.

The same here. I was too focused on Miles McBride until I saw more of Shamet.

Shamet fills a lot of needs at shooting guard and some point guard. I like what he brings to the table.

Promise me if McBride gets waived we sign him to a two-way contract.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The same here. I was too focused on Miles McBride until I saw more of Shamet.

Shamet fills a lot of needs at shooting guard and some point guard. I like what he brings to the table.

Promise me if McBride gets waived we sign him to a two-way contract.

I wish I could but until we once again have our own G League team, it's highly unlikely that we will be able to add a 2 way prospect that has potential. More likely, we'll just use it to fill out our roster cheaply. Which frankly is the smart thing to do because we can't give real minutes to a 2 way player or the 15th guy on our roster.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wish I could but until we once again have our own G League team, it's highly unlikely that we will be able to add a 2 way prospect that has potential. More likely, we'll just use it to fill out our roster cheaply. Which frankly is the smart thing to do because we can't give real minutes to a 2 way player or the 15th guy on our roster.

It would be more about keeping his rights if a two contract can do this.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It would be more about keeping his rights if a two contract can do this.

Sure but those guys want minutes and money so they can show they deserve more minutes and money. We can't develop a player at the G League level for the obvious reasons so a talented player is going to look elsewhere for a 2 way contract. I'm not saying we'd turn away a quality prospect, I'm saying they'd likely have no interest in us.

And remember, a 2 way player can't be up with the big club for more than 45 days per season. So we're better off looking for an older veteran willing to play irregular minutes to fill our last spot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sure but those guys want minutes and money so they can show they deserve more minutes and money. We can't develop a player at the G League level for the obvious reasons so a talented player is going to look elsewhere for a 2 way contract. I'm not saying we'd turn away a quality prospect, I'm saying they'd likely have no interest in us.

And remember, a 2 way player can't be up with the big club for more than 45 days per season. So we're better off looking for an older veteran willing to play irregular minutes to fill our last spot.

I'm a believer a team always makes room for talent. He wouldn't get an opportunity with the Suns this season... may next.

It's a position I will need to explain later.

 

[1Sun]

I wish I could but until we once again have our own G League team, it's highly unlikely that we will be able to add a 2 way prospect that has potential. More likely, we'll just use it to fill out our roster cheaply. Which frankly is the smart thing to do because we can't give real minutes to a 2 way player or the 15th guy on our roster.

Dario Saric is the 15th guy on our roster (with Jalen Smith the 14th, Frank the 13th, Nader the 12th and Payton the 11th). We are missing the 10th man on the roster (the top 9 being Booker, CP3, Ayton, Bridges, Crowder, Cam J, McGee, Payne and Shamet).

 

[Hoop Head]

Sure but those guys want minutes and money so they can show they deserve more minutes and money. We can't develop a player at the G League level for the obvious reasons so a talented player is going to look elsewhere for a 2 way contract. I'm not saying we'd turn away a quality prospect, I'm saying they'd likely have no interest in us.

And remember, a 2 way player can't be up with the big club for more than 45 days per season. So we're better off looking for an older veteran willing to play irregular minutes to fill our last spot.

That has changed quite a bit. Last year it was thrown out entirely because of Covid and I read they were trying to eliminate restrictions this also. A player has to spend some time with the G League team but it's minimal at this point. Two-way players aren't playoff eligible either.

Edit - Source https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/07/1...relaxed-two-way-player-rules-for-next-season/

 

[AzStevenCal]

That has changed quite a bit. Last year it was thrown out entirely because of Covid and I read they were trying to eliminate restrictions this also. A player has to spend some time with the G League team but it's minimal at this point. Two-way players aren't playoff eligible either.

Edit - Source https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/07/1...relaxed-two-way-player-rules-for-next-season/

You're right, it was brought up here when it happened and I completely forgot about it. I guess that might give us a chance at a player with potential but minutes will still be an issue especially if the player needs PT to develop.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns can wrap up Ayton and Shamet what an off season it would be with room and assets to make another move later on.

 

[Hoop Head]

If the Suns can wrap up Ayton and Shamet what an off season it would be with room and assets to make another move later on.

I meant to comment about Shamet's extension the other day. Money wise I've heard they're trying to get him to sign to a similar deal as Cam Payne. I'm glad they view him as a piece of the future and not just a rental. I know I disputed the claims his trade was made for salary purposes and extending him should prove that narrative was false.

He's impressed this preseason and I expect him to only be prove himself more valuable as the season continues.

 

[Mainstreet]

I meant to comment about Shamet's extension the other day. Money wise I've heard they're trying to get him to sign to a similar deal as Cam Payne. I'm glad they view him as a piece of the future and not just a rental. I know I disputed the claims his trade was made for salary purposes and extending him should prove that narrative was false.

He's impressed this preseason and I expect him to only be prove himself more valuable as the season continues.

Signing Shamet as a rental is what I most feared. From what I have seen he has bright future if the Suns can sign him to a multi-year contract. He gives the Suns a lot of versatility at guard and makes a nice backup for Booker.

 

[Hoop Head]

Signing Shamet as a rental is what I most feared. From what I have seen he has bright future if the Suns can sign him to a multi-year contract. He gives the Suns a lot of versatility at guard and makes a nice backup for Booker.

I really don't see how some believe that trade was only made for financial reasons now that we've seen what Shamet can do as a Sun. I know its preseason but that's where role players shine brightest because they're featured more. Examining financials it doesnt really add up either since the savings were really negligible. It's like $2 million in savings next season IF Shamet is allowed to walk but that ignores how he will most definitely provide more this year than the #29 pick and Carter would have.

 

[Mainstreet]

I really don't see how some believe that trade was only made for financial reasons now that we've seen what Shamet can do as a Sun. I know its preseason but that's where role players shine brightest because they're featured more. Examining financials it doesnt really add up either since the savings were really negligible. It's like $2 million in savings next season IF Shamet is allowed to walk but that ignores how he will most definitely provide more this year than the #29 pick and Carter would have.

It's easy to revert to a blame Sarver mentality when something doesn't go as you want and there was some early history as a Suns owner to support it. However, that's more of a knee jerk reaction in recent years.

As for me, I invested more time than I should have in studying players in the 2021 draft. When the 29th pick was traded away for a player I hardly knew (other than name recognition) it's easy to think the worst. After watching Shamet play that trade is looking like a steal.

Personally I do enjoy watching young players develop so there will always be a part of me that wants that. Now that Stix has shown some signs of developing, I'm hoping the Suns can keep him and add a veteran later on to fill out the roster.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's easy to revert to a blame Sarver mentality when something doesn't go as you want and there was some early history as a Suns owner to support it. However, that's more of a knee jerk reaction in recent years.

As for me, I invested more time than I should have in studying players in the 2021 draft. When the 29th pick was traded away for a player I hardly knew (other than name recognition) it's easy to think the worst. After watching Shamet play that trade is looking like a steal.

Personally I do enjoy watching young players develop so there will always be a part of me that wants that. Now that Stix has shown some signs of developing, I'm hoping the Suns can keep him and add a veteran later on to fill out the roster.

I didn't intend to single you out or for it to seem I was calling you specifically. I know you spend more time analyzing end of the bench youngsters than any other fan I know, which is appreciated because I don't have the time to research them myself but I'll check out the people you're high on.

It's a lot of fun seeing players grow and develop, whether it's Devin Booker or Dragan Bender. Of course you want to see all of them make it but that's unrealistic. Seeing some go from being a Cam Payne type of castoff to what he is today is one of my favorite parts of following the NBA. It's not just the development but the hard work and perseverance that makes it more enthralling.

But yes, it's easy to blame Sarver for being penny wise and pound foolish. He has a deserved history of being meddlesome that earned his reputation. It shouldnt be the first response to a move that actually makes sense on paper though and the Shamet trade made sense. He's a better player than Carter, who was my favorite Sun outside of Booker for most of last season. I didn't want to see him go but it makes us a better team adding Shamet in his place and whoever we could have added at #29. #29 could have been good but the odds of them being more impactful than Shamet this season are virtually nonexistent and a team with Chris Paul at the helm needs to think about this season more than 2-3 years down the road.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't intend to single you out or for it to seem I was calling you specifically. I know you spend more time analyzing end of the bench youngsters than any other fan I know, which is appreciated because I don't have the time to research them myself but I'll check out the people you're high on.

It's a lot of fun seeing players grow and develop, whether it's Devin Booker or Dragan Bender. Of course you want to see all of them make it but that's unrealistic. Seeing some go from being a Cam Payne type of castoff to what he is today is one of my favorite parts of following the NBA. It's not just the development but the hard work and perseverance that makes it more enthralling.

But yes, it's easy to blame Sarver for being penny wise and pound foolish. He has a deserved history of being meddlesome that earned his reputation. It shouldnt be the first response to a move that actually makes sense on paper though and the Shamet trade made sense. He's a better player than Carter, who was my favorite Sun outside of Booker for most of last season. I didn't want to see him go but it makes us a better team adding Shamet in his place and whoever we could have added at #29. #29 could have been good but the odds of them being more impactful than Shamet this season are virtually nonexistent and a team with Chris Paul at the helm needs to think about this season more than 2-3 years down the road.

I don't think there is any question the Suns are better trading for Shamet now and even more so if they keep him beyond this season.

A little off topic, I've never seen so many young point guards not on 15 man rosters that can potentially help a team later on if a team is patient.

 

[Hoop Head]

A little off topic, I've never seen so many young point guards not on 15 man rosters that can potentially help a team later on if a team is patient

It's crazy the sort of talent out there right now. I wonder if our perception is a skewed because we went so long without that I could easily build a 15 man roster of free agents that would rival the 2017-18 Suns, minus Booker.

Tyrell Terry, Kris Dunn, Avery Bradley, Nik Staukus, Jabari Parker, even Brandon Knight is available again.

They aren't world beaters but there is some decent end of the bench talent available. Maybe signing Elfrid Payton was a mistake because I'd prefer someone like Bradley or Dunn, maybe even offer Knight a shot. Elf is decent for a 3rd stringer but I like some other guys potential to be more than that much more than him.