Suns trade for Center Mark Williams

[Mainstreet]

I believe he plays for us a year and then is packaged. gives Maluach more time to develop

This is likely the plan. We'll see how it works out.

 

[JRakes]

I’d rather have Williams at 38 mill than hartlestein at 75

 

[GatorAZ]

I’d rather have Williams at 38 mill than hartlestein at 75

As a non-contending team I would take the cheaper player as well.

 

[ajcardfan]

Sounds like you don't think he belongs in the NBA at all (although through a Suns lens). Is that the case?

Personally I think this contract is his last payday. Which 40 games is he going to play next year? Obviously he can play in the NBA he just does it about half the time.

I see no trade value in him. Obviously, I hope I am wrong. I hope that he plays 82 games next year and does become a valuable asset.

 

[Chaplin]

Personally I think this contract is his last payday. Which 40 games is he going to play next year? Obviously he can play in the NBA he just does it about half the time.

I see no trade value in him. Obviously, I hope I am wrong. I hope that he plays 82 games next year and does become a valuable asset.

That's a little over the top considering he didn't play only 40 games last year.

It's an injury risk, sure, but if he plays 2/3 of the year at 11 or 12 per, that's not that bad. So far, there's no reason to think he will only play 50% or less of our games.

 

[ajcardfan]

That's a little over the top considering he didn't play only 40 games last year.

It's an injury risk, sure, but if he plays 2/3 of the year at 11 or 12 per, that's not that bad. So far, there's no reason to think he will only play 50% or less of our games.

I was using his career average of games played. He has played in 166 out of 331 possible games.

He did have his best and healthiest season last year. So I do hope he trends in that direction over the course of this contract. I wish I believed he will but I just don't. It's four years of data which is pretty solid IMO.

But hey, it's not super dumb like the Beal contract was.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

I was using his career average of games played. He has played in 166 out of 331 possible games.

He did have his best and healthiest season last year. So I do hope he trends in that direction over the course of this contract. I wish I believed he will but I just don't. It's four years of data which is pretty solid IMO.

But hey, it's not super dumb like the Beal contract was.

honestly - if we don't play him on back to backs (something williams himself suggested) i think we're good - that foot needs the day after to recover and there isn't back to backs in the playoffs

that has to be the plan imo - developing maluach allows us to do load management with williams- a healthy williams in the post season changes everything

 

[Chaplin]

I was using his career average of games played. He has played in 166 out of 331 possible games.

He did have his best and healthiest season last year. So I do hope he trends in that direction over the course of this contract. I wish I believed he will but I just don't. It's four years of data which is pretty solid IMO.

But hey, it's not super dumb like the Beal contract was.

Well, at the end of the day, we were either lucky last year, or the way we used him was significantly different than how Charlotte used him. Right now, he's trending in the right direction, but there's no way to know for sure until the games are played.

We've seen this before -- a player has a certain reputation with one team, but goes to the next one and becomes almost a different player. We see that all the time.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a little over the top considering he didn't play only 40 games last year.

It's an injury risk, sure, but if he plays 2/3 of the year at 11 or 12 per, that's not that bad. So far, there's no reason to think he will only play 50% or less of our games.

There’s “no reason” to think he will only play 50% or less of our games? His entire career has given us multiple seasons of seasons/reasons to think that could happen again. Last year was the exception to the rule of his health while playing in the NBA and even last year he missed a bunch of time and wore down down the stretch and then missed most of the playoffs.

Now hopefully the Suns figured something out to keep him a little healthier, but he suffered from the same injuries that he did on Charlotte, feet injuries for Big men have historically been killers and at this point the overwhelming data that we actually have to look at does give lots of reasons to think he could miss that kind of time again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was using his career average of games played. He has played in 166 out of 331 possible games.

He did have his best and healthiest season last year. So I do hope he trends in that direction over the course of this contract. I wish I believed he will but I just don't. It's four years of data which is pretty solid IMO.

But hey, it's not super dumb like the Beal contract was.

Borg

 

[Chaplin]

There’s “no reason” to think he will only play 50% or less of our games? His entire career has given us multiple seasons of seasons/reasons to think that could happen again. Last year was the exception to the rule of his health while playing in the NBA and even last year he missed a bunch of time and wore down down the stretch and then missed most of the playoffs.

Now hopefully the Suns figured something out to keep him a little healthier, but he suffered from the same injuries that he did on Charlotte, feet injuries for Big men have historically been killers and at this point the overwhelming data that we actually have to look at does give lots of reasons to think he could miss that kind of time again.

Charlotte is not Phoenix. The medical staffs aren't the same. The personnel he's playing with and the style of play isn't the same.

Sure, ok, I'll concede that maybe last year was a fluke. It could very well be. But still, that doesn't take away that we got a guy who, when healthy, is worth more than the mid-level, which is what we gave him. So I'm not sure what the problem is here.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I'm not mad at the deal. It's a bit of a gamble considering his injury history, but the contract is only 3 years and at a price that would put him on the higher end of backup center money; he's proven to be a reliable starter that contributes to winning when healthy. It should be a tradable contract if/when Maluach is ready to transition into a starting role, but that too is an unknown at this point. Daniel Gafford is making more and has also had problems staying on the court. I give the deal a B grade.

honestly - if we don't play him on back to backs (something williams himself suggested) i think we're good - that foot needs the day after to recover and there isn't back to backs in the playoffs

that has to be the plan imo - developing maluach allows us to do load management with williams- a healthy williams in the post season changes everything

Agreed. He was staying healthy and playing well up until the point we started playing him on back-to-backs. Hopefully Oso and Maluach continue to develop and we can afford to sit him on B2Bs.

 

[leclerc]

Will Book still wear 15? Will Mark wear 1?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think this contract represents 55-60 games of production per year. If he was an NBA Ironman, he would be making a LOT more money.

They are probably figuring that if he is injured they have Man man and Oso and looking at the salary committed for the entire center rotation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Charlotte is not Phoenix. The medical staffs aren't the same. The personnel he's playing with and the style of play isn't the same.

Sure, ok, I'll concede that maybe last year was a fluke. It could very well be. But still, that doesn't take away that we got a guy who, when healthy, is worth more than the mid-level, which is what we gave him. So I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is his health is a major question for a three year guaranteed contract. That’s all.

And even beyond that, I’m not crazy about him standing in the way of Malauach’s development. I’m a firm believer that this team really only has a chance to level up in the near future if he and Fleming end up players and I think they need as many minutes possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was using his career average of games played. He has played in 166 out of 331 possible games.

He did have his best and healthiest season last year. So I do hope he trends in that direction over the course of this contract. I wish I believed he will but I just don't. It's four years of data which is pretty solid IMO.

But hey, it's not super dumb like the Beal contract was.

Yeah this is why it’s not over the top. Until we have enough data points otherwise, his pattern is what it is. And pattern doesn’t change until the new data has been replicated. Otherwise that new data remains an outlier.

 

[Mainstreet]

An interesting tidbit, Mark Williams played 60 regular season games last season and Isaiah Hartenstein 47.

Of course this excludes the playoffs but Hartenstein gets paid nearly double the salary.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

i think hartenstein is pretty bad ass for a backup

 

[clyde2tw]

It's clear that MW and Suns are both clear about his health issue. With the health management of last season, both agree it's best for MW to cooperate with the club the next 2-3 season to figure out the optimal career path in a similar way like last season, but towards optimizing his healthy availability for playoffs. I envision MW start 30 games in the first half of the season and then rest, train and play as subs, to be healthy when playoffs start. Meanwhile, hopefully ManMan becomes reliable starter for at least 20 min a game.

 

[Chaplin]

The problem is his health is a major question for a three year guaranteed contract. That’s all.

And even beyond that, I’m not crazy about him standing in the way of Malauach’s development. I’m a firm believer that this team really only has a chance to level up in the near future if he and Fleming end up players and I think they need as many minutes possible.

That may be where we diverge. Our definition of "near future". I hold no preconceptions that we will be a contending team in 3 years. Maybe we will, but us NOT going to be a contending team isn't going to have much to do with Mark Williams and his pretty small contract.

 

[Yuma]

I’d rather have Williams at 38 mill than hartlestein at 75

You talking contracts or ages? LOL!

 

[Yuma]

It's clear that MW and Suns are both clear about his health issue. With the health management of last season, both agree it's best for MW to cooperate with the club the next 2-3 season to figure out the optimal career path in a similar way like last season, but towards optimizing his healthy availability for playoffs. I envision MW start 30 games in the first half of the season and then rest, train and play as subs, to be healthy when playoffs start. Meanwhile, hopefully ManMan becomes reliable starter for at least 20 min a game.

This was my argument to Lakers fans. Who cares how LeBron plays during the season. You care about the playoffs. If you have to bubble wrap LeBron until the playoffs, that's what you do!

 

[Yuma]

That may be where we diverge. Our definition of "near future". I hold no preconceptions that we will be a contending team in 3 years. Maybe we will, but us NOT going to be a contending team isn't going to have much to do with Mark Williams and his pretty small contract.

This is going to be as good as it gets. We keep trading away future assets for assets now. We will hit a point where a big stretch of suck happens. Unless the CBA gets rid of the Aprons and it goes back to rich guys buying championships again.

 

[Adrian]

Brandon Awadis
@brawadis
Suns signed Mark Williams for less $$$ than Jock Landale lol

 

[JCSunsfan]

Brandon Awadis
@brawadis
Suns signed Mark Williams for less $$$ than Jock Landale lol

I was just going to post this on the Free agency thread. Of course, Landale is only 1 year.