suns/spurs difference

[Lorenzo]

the idea that the league wants or has conspires to get the Spurs (who's Finals appearances get the lowest ratings in the last 20 years) makes zero sense whatsoever to me. The league is set up to do one thing and one thing only... make as much money as humanly possible. Having a team continually in it's biggest sales pitch of the year stink up the TV set doesn't help accomplish that goal.

another great point made by yourself.
this conspiracy thing always makes me laugh. I remember when the mavs beat the spurs in the playoffs there were some spurs fans totally blaming the officials.......not giving the mavs any credit. some spurs fans did the same thing when they lost to the lakers in 2004. many of those fans went with the conspiracy card. Some people need to leave their area code radius more often. Of corse many mavs fans blamed offciating after the finals meltdown.

 

[nowagimp]

nowagimp.......there's nothing I can do to change your opinion about the officiating being the major difference between a team that has 4 titles in the last decade and a team that has 0......ever. I think those numbers speak for themselves, but that's just me. Maybe it has something to do with the most underrated big time player I've ever watched. He's the best player since MJ IMO. Me being a mavs fan has nothing to do with my opinion that the spurs are by far the best team over the last decade. (other than the shaq/kobe lakers)
Obviously officials make mistakes.......then you have cheaters like that one official. However, that doesn't take away from what the spurs accomplished. I recall a game in which they dominated the suns in game 6......where after the game people wanted to make excuses about every other loss.........they wouldn't acknowledge the beating that the spurs dealt out that game. The mavs in the finals got some tough foul calls go against them. The biggest problem was having stackhouse suspended on a flagrant foul committed on the whale that is shaq.......then there was a no contact foul that enabled wade to shoot game winning free throws.
However, these wern't the deciding factors that caused the mavs to lose the series. They got beat in every aspect in those final 4 games. the best team often wins a 7 game series. the spurs and heat both deserve everything they have. Anyone else that says otherwise just isn't over it......and needs something to help them sleep at night.

BTW, what does me being a mavs fan have to do with anything. with your leave it to a mavs fan comment. I think I try to be as real as possible with the mavs, spurs, suns, and any other team. I for one dislike the spurs more than any other team(today).....but I have respect for their accomplishments. and It's easy to see from an unbiased point of view that they are clearly the best team in the NBA. Leave it to one paticular suns fan to make a poor excuse in why his/her favorite team lost a 7 game series in the playoffs again. Just defending my honor there.

Well since the spurs are probably the only intact team in the last decade Im not sure who yuou compare them to. To the stephon Marbury suns, the amareless suns, the steve Nash Mavericks or the steve Nash suns. I think Im hearing what you are saying but it sounds line one of those silly monday night football stats that average the results for 10 different raiders teams with 5 different QB's. The suns had KT and Amare and Nash for 1 year, their best team. The last time they had amare they had zero bench, never a spurs weakness of course. Averaging things over the last decade when the spurs were perhaps the only intact team is really irrelevant to last year.

Cheese:
As far as advertizing money and ratings, seems not to matter at all, big long term contracts with the networks have been recently signed and they have zero sponsors, save TMobil. The money tree must be raining(or promises to rain) from china or europe or something. I suspect the chinese market will more than make up for the american market where basketball is a second fiddle sport anyways. I dont have access to the balance sheets, but its pretty clear that if the leage wanted the suns style of "popularized" ball they would just call the handcheck foul already on the books, and it would influence all teams to play that style. On the other hand, suns players dont sell jerseys or memoribilia for squat, and that makes up 33% or so of the NBA revenue as I understand it. Superstar one-on-one players sell the memorabilia and seem to sell it whether they win or not(AI is one of the top sellers, hasnt won squat). I am not sure anyone here understands the NBA's financial plan, but they seem to be immune to TV ratings, at least in the playoffs(a tiny percent of the advertizing overall). The NBA has a credibility gap only exceeded by the steriods scandal in baseball. Even if the NBA was manipulating games it wouldnt even be illegal as long as its not connected to gambling, its entertainment like a movie. As far as the fans and their demand for integrity, well thats a joke, hard to make the claim thats important to fans that dont care how they win, just win. I dont put much faith in the integrity of Exxon Mobil and other large businesses, not sure why I should in the NBA. Its all about the money and TV ratings just dont seem to matter. they had the worst ratings in history and singed a fat new broadcast contract(biggest ever) weeks later. I'll bet they are salivating over the chinese market prospects for everything from TV rights to memoribilia.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

the suns best offensive player is clearly steve nash. but that's not the arguement here. The suspension had an impact on the series no doubt.....whether it was legit or not. and while I think it was a ticky/tack suspension.....it was legal. but it doesn't mean the spurs wern't the better team. If the suns at some point in recent history have been able to prove that they are better than the spurs........maybe I would change my thoughts. Maybe then I would say the ONLY reason the spurs are world champions is because the suns got screwed. But the simple fact that the spurs are perhaps the best team since the chicago bulls or the lakers......I choose to believe they still are the best overall TEAM in the league.

Absolutely agree with the first part. He is the best offensive player in the league.

I don't think that there is a huge conspiracy, I feel that Stern is an ass for acting like he was "forced" to suspend Amare/Diaw when it was completely up to him. He said rules are rules, and shouldn't be open for interpretation. Then the very next offseason, he changed other rules (players gambling) He is so wildly inconsistent with so many issues, it makes me want to ninja kick him.

I also agree that the Spurs are the best team in the league.

 

[scXfreakX]

In that same game, didn't Duncan get up from the bench to help Bowen or something? Why wasn't he suspended? I don't think its a conspiracy, but come on, be fair.

 

[Skkorpion]

Until proven otherwise, the Spurs are the best team in basketball.

Last year is over. This is a new year. Once again, right now, the Spurs have the best record in the west. The season is long. So too are the playoffs.

The Suns are good. We are competitive and entertaining. Barring a critical injury or two, we should make the playoffs. I'm going to enjoy the ride.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese:
As far as advertizing money and ratings, seems not to matter at all, big long term contracts with the networks have been recently signed and they have zero sponsors, save TMobil. The money tree must be raining(or promises to rain) from china or europe or something. I suspect the chinese market will more than make up for the american market where basketball is a second fiddle sport anyways. I dont have access to the balance sheets, but its pretty clear that if the leage wanted the suns style of "popularized" ball they would just call the handcheck foul already on the books, and it would influence all teams to play that style. On the other hand, suns players dont sell jerseys or memoribilia for squat, and that makes up 33% or so of the NBA revenue as I understand it. Superstar one-on-one players sell the memorabilia and seem to sell it whether they win or not(AI is one of the top sellers, hasnt won squat). I am not sure anyone here understands the NBA's financial plan, but they seem to be immune to TV ratings, at least in the playoffs(a tiny percent of the advertizing overall). The NBA has a credibility gap only exceeded by the steriods scandal in baseball. Even if the NBA was manipulating games it wouldnt even be illegal as long as its not connected to gambling, its entertainment like a movie. As far as the fans and their demand for integrity, well thats a joke, hard to make the claim thats important to fans that dont care how they win, just win. I dont put much faith in the integrity of Exxon Mobil and other large businesses, not sure why I should in the NBA. Its all about the money and TV ratings just dont seem to matter. they had the worst ratings in history and singed a fat new broadcast contract(biggest ever) weeks later. I'll bet they are salivating over the chinese market prospects for everything from TV rights to memoribilia.

and you know what, if they're TV ratings were higher, that contract would be a lot bigger. They're deal pales in comparison to the NFL's or MLBs. TV ratings matter because the NBA wants to make as much money as humanly possible, thus getting high ratings can only HELP them in that area. That's the bottom line.

 

[Lorenzo]

Well since the spurs are probably the only intact team in the last decade Im not sure who yuou compare them to. To the stephon Marbury suns, the amareless suns, the steve Nash Mavericks or the steve Nash suns. I think Im hearing what you are saying but it sounds line one of those silly monday night football stats that average the results for 10 different raiders teams with 5 different QB's. The suns had KT and Amare and Nash for 1 year, their best team. The last time they had amare they had zero bench, never a spurs weakness of course. Averaging things over the last decade when the spurs were perhaps the only intact team is really irrelevant to last year.

the spurs aren't completely intact over the last decade either.......aside from pop and duncan. they have made changes as well along with adding their two supporting stars ginobli and parker. every team makes changes just about every year and no team is going to be exactly the same over several nba seasons. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish there. that doesn't change the fact that they have the best results over the past decade when compared to any other team. My point is that the suns.....last year.......the year before......year before.......have not shown that they are better than the spurs.......regardless of who was on which team. hence the fact that you can't say the suns weren't the better team because of officiating and a suspension. if the suns were as dominant over the spurs......as the spurs have been over the suns.........then you might be on to something(if it were the spurs upsetting the suns in the playoffs). but we know that's not the case.
so keep rolling with the excuses. As a mavs fan.....I'm done with excuses for the mavs. they just aren't as good as the spurs.....at this point they aren't as good as the suns either......eventhough I thought they once were.

 

[nowagimp]

the spurs aren't completely intact over the last decade either.......aside from pop and duncan. they have made changes as well along with adding their two supporting stars ginobli and parker. every team makes changes just about every year and no team is going to be exactly the same over several nba seasons. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish there. that doesn't change the fact that they have the best results over the past decade when compared to any other team. My point is that the suns.....last year.......the year before......year before.......have not shown that they are better than the spurs.......regardless of who was on which team. hence the fact that you can't say the suns weren't the better team because of officiating and a suspension. if the suns were as dominant over the spurs......as the spurs have been over the suns.........then you might be on to something(if it were the spurs upsetting the suns in the playoffs). but we know that's not the case.

You proved it, the spurs plus the suspensions of Diaw and Stat, and one crooked game reffed by Donaghy(that the spurs won) were better than the suns last year, when that had KT. I dont think the suns are better this year, they are worse.

As far as the Mavs fan comment, its just a reference to the willingness to dismiss the suspensions from the discussion as if nothing had happened. Sports fans around the country though that play was a fraud, and spare me the "rules interpretation" comments, dont want to hear them again. Only a Mavs or Spurs fan could dismiss that and attempt to determine that the spurs were better in spite of the suspensions. As if the suns hadnt won in the spurs house and regained the homecourt going home in game 5, before being horryfied and sternified. You can trash talk all you want about last year, the vast majority of fans across the nation know it was bullcrap, bleep. The NBA's integrity is crap, and ratings continue to plunge. "where David Stern happens"

 

[Lorenzo]

You proved it, the spurs plus the suspensions of Diaw and Stat, and one crooked game reffed by Donaghy(that the spurs won) were better than the suns last year, when that had KT. I dont think the suns are better this year, they are worse.

As far as the Mavs fan comment, its just a reference to the willingness to dismiss the suspensions from the discussion as if nothing had happened. Sports fans around the country though that play was a fraud, and spare me the "rules interpretation" comments, dont want to hear them again. Only a Mavs or Spurs fan could dismiss that and attempt to determine that the spurs were better in spite of the suspensions. As if the suns hadnt won in the spurs house and regained the homecourt going home in game 5, before being horryfied and sternified. You can trash talk all you want about last year, the vast majority of fans across the nation know it was bullcrap, bleep. The NBA's integrity is crap, and ratings continue to plunge. "where David Stern happens"

I'm not talking any trash....LOL. I'm stating my opinion. and last time I checked....the notion that the spurs were the best team in the NBA last season is not an opinion. The fact that people believe the suns were better......now that is opinion......not fact.

As far as only a spurs or mavs fan...... The nation as a whole was split down the middle on the ruling. The only cities completely pro or con were phoenix and S.A. respectively. David Stern couldn't of got it completely right regardless of what he did. If he suspends them he upsets some people. If he doesn't suspend them he upsets other people. I actually said I didn't like the suspension if you bothered to read my comments. I remember how pissed I was when stackhouse got suspended for a foul in the nba finals. but since I'm a mavs fan you have me labled apparantly. I will also say I understand why stern has to enforce such a rule because of the previous brawls(to include fans) in the nba.

Like I said before.....when have the suns proven they are better than the spurs with or without amare/diaw? That's all I'm saying. The spurs have been the better team. It's easy to see....especially from an unbiased point of view. Don't put label me with spurs fanbase either please. I dislike the spurs more than any other team....so don't go there. I am just giving credit where it is due.

 

[nowagimp]

I'm not talking any trash....LOL. I'm stating my opinion. and last time I checked....the notion that the spurs were the best team in the NBA last season is not an opinion. The fact that people believe the suns were better......now that is opinion......not fact.

As far as only a spurs or mavs fan...... The nation as a whole was split down the middle on the ruling. The only cities completely pro or con were phoenix and S.A. respectively. David Stern couldn't of got it completely right regardless of what he did. If he suspends them he upsets some people. If he doesn't suspend them he upsets other people. I actually said I didn't like the suspension if you bothered to read my comments. I remember how pissed I was when stackhouse got suspended for a foul in the nba finals. but since I'm a mavs fan you have me labled apparantly. I will also say I understand why stern has to enforce such a rule because of the previous brawls(to include fans) in the nba.

Like I said before.....when have the suns proven they are better than the spurs with or without amare/diaw? That's all I'm saying. The spurs have been the better team. It's easy to see....especially from an unbiased point of view. Don't put label me with spurs fanbase either please. I dislike the spurs more than any other team....so don't go there. I am just giving credit where it is due.

Interesting that your opinions are "unbiased" by the mavs/suns rivalry and you speak of how the nation was split down the middle, really? You speak for the nation? The polls on ESPN right after clearly showed fans were against the suspensions outside texas. But I suppose you have conducted your own polls or went to NBA.com. You almost sound like a stern synchophant. I really dont even argue that the spurs won, they did and deserve the "suspension asterisk" for it. They regained homecourt advantage with a pair of suspensions to the suns frontcourt, including the suns top scorer. But of course your "unbiased" nature allows you to make the prediction that the spurs would have won anyway after losing the homecourt advantage in san antonio.

 

[taz02]

I'm not picking sides here, but the evidence that the spurs have been the better team is undisputable. We can debate the Stern factor all we want, but the bottom line is the Spurs won. Stat and Diaw made a poor decision that put their fate in the hands of Stern. Being smart and making smart decisions is part of being a champion.

It seems obvious that something needs to change in order to beat the spurs on a consistant basis.

 

[The Man In Black]

I wish people would let it go. The bench rule was put into play during those knock-down brawls from the Heat-Knicks series of the 90's. Iavaroni and the rest of the assistant coaches, staff, trainers didn't do enough to keep their players on the bench during the altercation. It's unfortunate, but remember, the Suns had homecourt and lost game 1. The Spurs were ready to play and do what it takes to advance. When it gets down to it, teams have to find a way to win despite the refs, the distractions and all that. With regards to the ratings, I don't beleive that there is any team that goes into the season saying that they need to be the highest rated TV team AND win the title. You can't control whether or not big metropolitan cities watch you or not, nor should you really care...unless of course you have a huge ego and for the Spurs, every player there has, as Pop says, gotten over themselves.

With regards to system play, the Spurs do 1 thing really well when it comes to playing Phoenix, they run out on offensive possesions when a shot is attempted sending only bigs to attempt offensive rebounds, while wings drift back to challenge any potential fast break. That is what they do best, plus when Parker is on the court, he makes Nash work extra hard on both sides of the court in an attempt to weaken your leader, and it's worked everytime he has played against him.

 

[timmo]

In that same game, didn't Duncan get up from the bench to help Bowen or something? Why wasn't he suspended? I don't think its a conspiracy, but come on, be fair.

The rule states that during an "altercation" if a player leaves the area of the bench they will be suspended. On that play there was no "altercation".

Stern was a fool though in not applying the same rules when he found that his ref's were breaking the rules. Made him look pretty bad.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not talking any trash....LOL. I'm stating my opinion. and last time I checked....the notion that the spurs were the best team in the NBA last season is not an opinion. The fact that people believe the suns were better......now that is opinion......not fact.

As far as only a spurs or mavs fan...... The nation as a whole was split down the middle on the ruling. The only cities completely pro or con were phoenix and S.A. respectively. David Stern couldn't of got it completely right regardless of what he did. If he suspends them he upsets some people. If he doesn't suspend them he upsets other people. I actually said I didn't like the suspension if you bothered to read my comments. I remember how pissed I was when stackhouse got suspended for a foul in the nba finals. but since I'm a mavs fan you have me labled apparantly. I will also say I understand why stern has to enforce such a rule because of the previous brawls(to include fans) in the nba.

Like I said before.....when have the suns proven they are better than the spurs with or without amare/diaw? That's all I'm saying. The spurs have been the better team. It's easy to see....especially from an unbiased point of view. Don't put label me with spurs fanbase either please. I dislike the spurs more than any other team....so don't go there. I am just giving credit where it is due.

Did you even see the polls? Where did you get it was split even? The national polls clearly were not split. Majority of the fans said the Suns were screwed. Clearly if Stern displayed the same amount of judgment he did on letting his Refs off with regard to the Suns, only a minority of the fans would have disagreed.

I do agree though that nobody is better then the Spurs until it's proven on the court. They are the team to beat until proven otherwise.

 

[Lorenzo]

Did you even see the polls? Where did you get it was split even? The national polls clearly were not split. Majority of the fans said the Suns were screwed. Clearly if Stern displayed the same amount of judgment he did on letting his Refs off with regard to the Suns, only a minority of the fans would have disagreed.

I do agree though that nobody is better then the Spurs until it's proven on the court. They are the team to beat until proven otherwise.

when I was driving from california to arizona after the series was over....espn radio said the polls were split(dan patrick I remember vividly) Obviously not all polls are going to be the same. that was the only time I ever heard people outside of phoenix debating the issue. It seemed like some people were mad.....others wern't.

 

[Lorenzo]

Interesting that your opinions are "unbiased" by the mavs/suns rivalry and you speak of how the nation was split down the middle, really? You speak for the nation? The polls on ESPN right after clearly showed fans were against the suspensions outside texas. But I suppose you have conducted your own polls or went to NBA.com. You almost sound like a stern synchophant. I really dont even argue that the spurs won, they did and deserve the "suspension asterisk" for it. They regained homecourt advantage with a pair of suspensions to the suns frontcourt, including the suns top scorer. But of course your "unbiased" nature allows you to make the prediction that the spurs would have won anyway after losing the homecourt advantage in san antonio.

honestly I hate the spurs more than any team. where are you missing that? why would I be biased on this issue. If anyone is biased it is you. but I understand because you are a fan of one of the teams. I don't have any issue with either team and I was hoping phoenix would win because I would like to see nash win a ring. I'm just being as truthful and unbiased as I can on this paticular issue. I don't like stern.....I didn't like the suspension. I didn't like the stackhouse suspension in the finals the year prior. Understanding it and agreeing with it are two different things. I would be pretty upset myself if i got cited for going 5 miles over the limit......but what are you going to do? None of that makes the spurs any less of a champion nor do they have an asterick IMO. either way I respect your opinion. and yes I believe the spurs still would of won the series with or without the suspension. from an unbiased point of view. and I didn't make a poll.....I heard that on the dan patrick show.