Suns Off-season Thread

Mainstreet

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To me that is the #1 need unless Crowder is moved. Losing Crowder who is one of the toughest guys on the team and McGee both from the FC? All of the sudden, this becomes just a big of a need losing both Crowder and McGee because of defense. It becomes a big hole even with Saric. Saric couldn't keep anybody in front of him before the injury.



No but what is new is Jae Tweeting about a change. So, that seems to put some credibility towards the rumors.

Hopefully Saric will be able to return healthy but we don't know how long it will take for him to get up to speed. He is mostly used as a small ball center anyway.

The Suns need to get stronger at power forward even if the Suns keep Crowder.

As we saw in the playoffs, the Suns are vulnerable on the boards.
 

Covert Rain

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Hopefully Saric will be able to return healthy but we don't know how long it will take for him to get up to speed. He is mostly used as a small ball center anyway.

The Suns need to get stronger at power forward even if the Suns keep Crowder.

As we saw in the playoffs, the Suns are vulnerable on the boards.
Even with Saric, everywhere he has gone his lateral quickness on defense has been his biggest weakness by far. Even if he is healthy, he can help out offensively but defensively he isn't much help at all. I agree that we can use some additional FC help but to me as long as Crowder is there, we should focus on another guard. Without Crowder? I think it's equally a priority. In a perfect world we shore up both.
 

Mainstreet

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Even with Saric, everywhere he has gone his lateral quickness on defense has been his biggest weakness by far. Even if he is healthy, he can help out offensively but defensively he isn't much help at all. I agree that we can use some additional FC help but to me as long as Crowder is there, we should focus on another guard. Without Crowder? I think it's equally a priority. In a perfect world we shore up both.

Another shot creator and/or distributor is at the top of my list. Hopefully he can shoot good as well.

We saw what Dallas did with three point guards. I hope the Suns learned their lesson.
 

Covert Rain

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Another shot creator and/or distributor is at the top of my list. Hopefully he can shoot good as well.

We saw what Dallas did with three point guards. I hope the Suns learned their lesson.
Fair enough. My priority is contingent on if they trade Crowder or not. Getting another shooter isn't going to help much if the FC is a revolving door on the other end.
 

AzStevenCal

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Even with Saric, everywhere he has gone his lateral quickness on defense has been his biggest weakness by far. Even if he is healthy, he can help out offensively but defensively he isn't much help at all. I agree that we can use some additional FC help but to me as long as Crowder is there, we should focus on another guard. Without Crowder? I think it's equally a priority. In a perfect world we shore up both.
This is accurate except for during the bubble and for a good part of the 2020-2021 season.

When he was fully healthy and in his best shape his lateral quickness was survivable on the perimeter and often an asset when matched up down low. Granted, that hasn't been the case for most of his career and we have no idea whether he can even get back whatever he's lost from his last injury, but if we can get Bubble Dario he'd be a huge plus on both ends of the court.
 

Mainstreet

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Fair enough. My priority is contingent on if they trade Crowder or not. Getting another shooter isn't going to help much if the FC is a revolving door on the other end.

I agree about the revolving door.

Looking at the Warriors, they key to winning is more athleticism, shooting and defense... not necessarily more size.
 

Finito

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You keep going back to the same points while ignoring that the entire team had a bewildering postseason. I can't explain why a 64 win team looked so bad for the final 13 games but at no time did I think that Crowder was THE problem nor that he wasn't giving effort.

Well if your good with that effort then let’s just say we agree to disagree.
 

95pro

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Crowder has been in a steady decline. I though he did good against Giannis the year before he joined us. Our finals run he was competent on both sides for the most part. This past year he’s been pretty awful. His time is up.
 

Proximo

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You keep going back to the same points while ignoring that the entire team had a bewildering postseason. I can't explain why a 64 win team looked so bad for the final 13 games but at no time did I think that Crowder was THE problem nor that he wasn't giving effort.
He was a part of the problem.

He was abysmal in the New Orleans series, yeah he got his game together a little against Dallas but he was far from great.

His lack of rebounding is a big problem on this team, because our guards don't rebound very well either. Giving up offensive boards was the biggest weakness of last years team.

Craig and Wainright can do most of what Crowder can do defensively. I think it is time to trade him and hopefully upgrade the position.
 

Muggz

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I've got Durant on speed dial.
The Crazy thing is Durant kinda helps with both the PG AND PF situation.
Crowder has been in a steady decline. I though he did good against Giannis the year before he joined us. Our finals run he was competent on both sides for the most part. This past year he’s been pretty awful. His time is up.
Crowder does alot of stuff that doesn't show up in the stats, but he's certainly not irreplaceable.
Just for kicks how about we try a real PF at that spot.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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He was a part of the problem.

He was abysmal in the New Orleans series, yeah he got his game together a little against Dallas but he was far from great.

His lack of rebounding is a big problem on this team, because our guards don't rebound very well either. Giving up offensive boards was the biggest weakness of last years team.

Craig and Wainright can do most of what Crowder can do defensively. I think it is time to trade him and hopefully upgrade the position.
Actually our guards are pretty good rebounders at 5 and 4.4 for book and Paul. It’s the fact our other forwards (bridges and cam Johnson) are also poor rebounders that’s the problem. Our primary 3 forwards are poor rebounders.
 

Raindog

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Yes, anyone could/should see that rebounding is one of the Suns' most blatant Achilles heels. And a lot of that is attributable to lack of a genuine PF. Crowder is just a stocky small forward and Cam is a taller wing who has to play far from the basket to be effective.

Crowder seems like a good team guy and would probably be a solid asset as a bench player. But the reality is he is the very definition of a streak shooter (at best), his vaunted defense has slipped considerably, and he is a negative as a rebounder. This is one of the few areas where the Suns could genuinely upgrade without needing to break the bank to do it, since Crowder's effectiveness at his position is so limited.
 

95pro

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Actually our guards are pretty good rebounders at 5 and 4.4 for book and Paul. It’s the fact our other forwards (bridges and cam Johnson) are also poor rebounders that’s the problem. Our primary 3 forwards are poor rebounders.

I'm willing to give Bridges and CJ a pass on rebounding over Crowder since they're not one-dimensional.

I would say that our problem is that our starting PF is the problem when it comes to rebounds, not the guy who got dpoy votes or the guy coming off the bench.
 

AzStevenCal

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He was a part of the problem.

He was abysmal in the New Orleans series, yeah he got his game together a little against Dallas but he was far from great.

His lack of rebounding is a big problem on this team, because our guards don't rebound very well either. Giving up offensive boards was the biggest weakness of last years team.

Craig and Wainright can do most of what Crowder can do defensively. I think it is time to trade him and hopefully upgrade the position.
Up until your last sentence, I was right there with you.

Yes Jae's rebounding is an issue made worse because we don't have that exceptional rebounder that can make up the difference for a fairly weak rebounding team. But Crowder still shows up in all our best rotations for a reason, that wouldn't be the case if marginal players such as Craig and Wainwright could nearly equal what he gives us.
 

Mainstreet

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Yes, anyone could/should see that rebounding is one of the Suns' most blatant Achilles heels. And a lot of that is attributable to lack of a genuine PF. Crowder is just a stocky small forward and Cam is a taller wing who has to play far from the basket to be effective.

Crowder seems like a good team guy and would probably be a solid asset as a bench player. But the reality is he is the very definition of a streak shooter (at best), his vaunted defense has slipped considerably, and he is a negative as a rebounder. This is one of the few areas where the Suns could genuinely upgrade without needing to break the bank to do it, since Crowder's effectiveness at his position is so limited.



I'm only giving my opinion, but aside from Saric who is a small ball center, the Suns play four small forwards in Jae Crowder, Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson and Torrey Craig.

If those four were better rebounders, it wouldn't matter so much the way the NBA is headed.
 

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Rebounds won't be a problem if they let DA play Center and find a PF to defend the shooters.
There's no/few reasons DA should be out guarding the 3pt line unless the center on the other team makes him.
 

Mainstreet

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Rebounds won't be a problem if they let DA play Center and find a PF to defend the shooters.
There's no/few reasons DA should be out guarding the 3pt line unless the center on the other team makes him.

This was a problem for the Suns many times when Ayton was guarding outside and the opponents made backdoor cuts to the basket.

There was no one home to defend.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm willing to give Bridges and CJ a pass on rebounding over Crowder since they're not one-dimensional.

I would say that our problem is that our starting PF is the problem when it comes to rebounds, not the guy who got dpoy votes or the guy coming off the bench.
I wasn’t saying it wasn’t a crowder issue. I was pointing out crowders paltry rebounding is an issue not because we have poorly rebounding guards (which was the statement in the post I quoted) but because none of our forwards are good rebounders.
 

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Seems like Bridges should be a better rebounder, (Shawn Marion). We could could definitely use a rebounding PF.
 

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If no Durant I'd be shopping Cam J and some picks for a legit PF. Don't wanna lose Cam but right now he's got good value in a trade.
 

95pro

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Kuzma and Stewart (pistons) are surprisingly good rebounders. Poetle too but he's gone, such a nice grab, we missed out.
 

Phrazbit

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Seems like Bridges should be a better rebounder, (Shawn Marion). We could could definitely use a rebounding PF.

Some guys have some wild sense to know how a ball is going to come off the rim, Marion was one; he also had a freakishly fast ability to jump twice before other dude's jumped once.

Marion, especially in his prime, was perhaps the greatest rebounding SF ever... it can't really expect that from anyone else.
 

AzStevenCal

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I wasn’t saying it wasn’t a crowder issue. I was pointing out crowders paltry rebounding is an issue not because we have poorly rebounding guards (which was the statement in the post I quoted) but because none of our forwards are good rebounders.
I think the way we played in the postseason really screwed with our minds a bit (or at least mine). I was thinking we must be ranked near the bottom in boards but I just checked and surprisingly we were 10th in total rebounds last season. That was a nice jump from the season before where we were 23rd overall. So hopefully this can be addressed and improved from within.
 
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