Suns hire Frank Vogel as next head coach

[Finito]

I do have questions that still bother me about Ayton. I hope they are meaningless.

Did he quit in game 7 of the playoffs against Dallas?

Although Ayton was reportedly injured, I would have liked to have seen him try to play in game 6 of the playoffs against the Nuggets.

Oh sure there’s only 2-3 players in all the NBA I don’t have questions about and none of those guys on are in the Suns

 

[Finito]

Agree, he played really well in 20/21, he played great in the regular season in 22 but he did struggle in the playoffs and it is insane that Monty basically didn't care about the fractured relationship. Him not connecting with Ayton all off season is just absurd. He was the head coach, his job is to build a team and it's clear that his biggest weakness was managing personalities.

Hopefully Vogel can get through to Ayton, because you are right, he is going to be hard to replace. If we trade him for a couple role players and a late pick then we're likely taking a big step backwards.

As for the Booker line, I know he isn't like Derozan, his playoff numbers obliterate DeMarr, and I'd hope he isn't Kobe either. Ball hogging and playing slow and putting up low percentages isn't going to win any titles in the 2020s. Kobe had plenty of horror show elimination games.

I ment more is Booker an all time great or is he an empty calorie scorer.

Yes Kobe had some bad games but he had way more great games and gots 5 rings to show for it.

This is a huge year for him. He’s not only going to have to be the best player but he’s going to have to step into that leader role and I want to see him away from Paul. I think Paul is a fake leader. To me he’s a bully who finger points and that’s why his teams get tired of him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I ment more is Booker an all time great or is he an empty calorie scorer.

Yes Kobe had some bad games but he had way more great games and gots 5 rings to show for it.

This is a huge year for him. He’s not only going to have to be the best player but he’s going to have to step into that leader role and I want to see him away from Paul. I think Paul is a fake leader. To me he’s a bully who finger points and that’s why his teams get tired of him.

Booker is not an empty calorie scorer, not even close. But Booker isn't Kobe either. Partly because he doesn't have Kobe's athleticism. Partly because he's a little bit injury prone. But also because Devin got CP3 and KD at the end of their careers while Kobe played alongside Shaq, Gasol, Artest, Odom and others in their prime.

 

[Finito]

Booker is not an empty calorie scorer, not even close. But Booker isn't Kobe either. Partly because he doesn't have Kobe's athleticism. Partly because he's a little bit injury prone. But also because Devin got CP3 and KD at the end of their careers while Kobe played alongside Shaq, Gasol, Artest, Odom and others in their prime.

Sorry but until he actually shows up in an elimination game he’s an empty calorie scorer.

Bottom line. Those are the games that define what great is. You can get all the 40 point games in the world that’s awesome but when it’s all on the line do you show up. 14ppg on 30% in elimination games? Flat out no excuse for that, NONE. Stars, all time greats don’t do that.

This is a big year for him,

 

[Phrazbit]

Sorry but until he actually shows up in an elimination game he’s an empty calorie scorer.

Bottom line. Those are the games that define what great is. You can get all the 40 point games in the world that’s awesome but when it’s all on the line do you show up. 14ppg on 30% in elimination games? Flat out no excuse for that, NONE. Stars, all time greats don’t do that.

This is a big year for him,

Kobe absolutely crapped the bed in a ton of elimination games.

 

[Finito]

Kobe absolutely crapped the bed in a ton of elimination games.

5 rings

 

[AzStevenCal]

5 rings

Shaq and Gasol.

And Dickey Simpkins, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Earl Cureton, Cark Herrera, Will Perdue and Mark Madson all won at least 2 more rings than Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing or Steve Nash or Elgin Baylor. Ball may not lie but rings do.

 

[Yuma]

Sorry but until he actually shows up in an elimination game he’s an empty calorie scorer.

Bottom line. Those are the games that define what great is. You can get all the 40 point games in the world that’s awesome but when it’s all on the line do you show up. 14ppg on 30% in elimination games? Flat out no excuse for that, NONE. Stars, all time greats don’t do that.

This is a big year for him,

I would argue he is the only guy that showed up in those games. You think he played bad. The rest of the team stunk!

 

[AZ Native]

Shaq and Gasol.

And Dickey Simpkins, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Earl Cureton, Cark Herrera, Will Perdue and Mark Madson all won at least 2 more rings than Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing or Steve Nash or Elgin Baylor. Ball may not lie but rings do.

Horry has 6 rings.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Horry has 6 rings.

Oh yeah, my list wasn't definitive but I chose lesser players to make a point. Horry was clutch, not much the rest of the time but when the game was on the line, he was clutch.

 

[Finito]

Shaq and Gasol.

And Dickey Simpkins, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Earl Cureton, Cark Herrera, Will Perdue and Mark Madson all won at least 2 more rings than Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing or Steve Nash or Elgin Baylor. Ball may not lie but rings do.

Right cause it’s completely the same thing as Mark Madson

Yup no difference in what Kobe brought to the team and what Mark Madson brought. What a great point.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Yuma]

Anyone get the impression watching the press conference: Frank Vogel similar to Ted Lasso? I saw a Laker podcaster talk about this. As I watched Vogel, I couldn't not see it.

 

[Finito]

I would argue he is the only guy that showed up in those games. You think he played bad. The rest of the team stunk!

Oh ok so now that’s showing up huh.

Well damn

 

[Finito]

Anyone get the impression watching the press conference: Frank Vogel similar to Ted Lasso? I saw a Laker podcaster talk about this. As I watched Vogel, I couldn't not see it.

No not at all. He has a reputation as a hard ass nose to the grindstone defense first and defense second guy.

He’s the complete opposite of a nice guy coach.

 

[Yuma]

No not at all. He has a reputation as a hard ass nose to the grindstone defense first and defense second guy.

He’s the complete opposite of a nice guy coach.

That's reputation. Did you watch the press conference? They explain how he does it by being nice.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Right cause it’s completely the same thing as Mark Madson

Yup no difference in what Kobe brought to the team and what Mark Madson brought. What a great point.

This is getting ridiculous.

No, it started out ridiculous.

Booker isn't Kobe but Booker isn't empty calories. Rings don't mean a player is great, circumstances which include teammates and coaching, determine rings. Shaq was the most dominant player of his era, Kobe benefitted from that and he played most of his career with a Coach many believe is the greatest ever. Then, Kobe got to play with another quality big man and excellent role players. Devin's played with far more scrubs than he has good players and under some pretty bad coaches too. And again, Booker isn't Kobe and he never will be.

 

[Finito]

No, it started out ridiculous.

Booker isn't Kobe but Booker isn't empty calories. Rings don't mean a player is great, circumstances which include teammates and coaching, determine rings. Shaq was the most dominant player of his era, Kobe benefitted from that and he played most of his career with a Coach many believe is the greatest ever. Then, Kobe got to play with another quality big man and excellent role players. Devin's played with far more scrubs than he has good players and under some pretty bad coaches too. And again, Booker isn't Kobe and he never will be.

You’re right he isn’t Kobe and he never could be especially the way he’s going. So yes I agree with that.

Your also right championships mean nothing neither do Finals MVPs, regular season MVPs, all defense teams, all NBA teams,

Bunch of nothing just right place right time I guess

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I really don't want to drop the T word right now, but calling Booker an empty calorie scorer is very much bordering on that..

 

[nashman]

You’re right he isn’t Kobe and he never could be especially the way he’s going. So yes I agree with that.

Your also right championships mean nothing neither do Finals MVPs, regular season MVPs, all defense teams, all NBA teams,

Bunch of nothing just right place right time I guess

Get serious Kobe won crap without Shaq or Gasol two of the best big men in the league in their primes! Book has NEVER, EVER had a comparable running mate unless you count Durant and he is hardly in his prime and they have played like 18 games together. Book would have a ring if he played with the teams Kobe win with as well imo. It’s nonsense to compare since Book has played with garbage a lot of his career so far.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Here's the whole press conference in case you missed it

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[Hoop Head]

Get serious Kobe won crap without Shaq or Gasol two of the best big men in the league in their primes! Book has NEVER, EVER had a comparable running mate unless you count Durant and he is hardly in his prime and they have played like 18 games together. Book would have a ring if he played with the teams Kobe win with as well imo. It’s nonsense to compare since Book has played with garbage a lot of his career so far.

Booker would have a ring if Ayton were half as good as @Finito claims he is.

 

[95pro]

Agree, he played really well in 20/21, he played great in the regular season in 22 but he did struggle in the playoffs and it is insane that Monty basically didn't care about the fractured relationship. Him not connecting with Ayton all off season is just absurd. He was the head coach, his job is to build a team and it's clear that his biggest weakness was managing personalities.

Hopefully Vogel can get through to Ayton, because you are right, he is going to be hard to replace. If we trade him for a couple role players and a late pick then we're likely taking a big step backwards.

As for the Booker line, I know he isn't like Derozan, his playoff numbers obliterate DeMarr, and I'd hope he isn't Kobe either. Ball hogging and playing slow and putting up low percentages isn't going to win any titles in the 2020s. Kobe had plenty of horror show elimination games.

I'm hearing good things in this regard, that he's a good communicator and generally a positive person. So i think Ayton warms up to the new staff and how they can make him a part of the big 3.

 

[95pro]

Booker would have a ring if Ayton were half as good as @Finito claims he is.

Right. Argues Ayton is awesome, Booker is empty calories.

 

[Finito]

oh oh looks like feelings were hurt bringing up Devin Booker and his actual STATS.

Oops sorry won’t happen again

 

[Finito]

Right. Argues Ayton is awesome, Booker is empty calories.

See that’s the problem with this type of trash. Never once said Ayton was this amazing awesome player, never once.