Suns hire Frank Vogel as next head coach

JCSunsfan

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The problem as I see is that we need 2 starting players at PG and F/C in addition to a more reliable bench.
Unless you are bringing Book or Beal off the bench, they will be our starting guards. Neither is a sf.
 

Yuma

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I think that was stupid human tricks. I saw an amazing one on his show. Some guy who was bored at his dry cleaning job started spinning hangers by the inside corner around a finger like an airplane prop. Somehow, he decided to balance a coin on the hook part of a wire hanger, then was able to get it spinning like an airplane prop, and could slow it back down to a stop, all the while balancing the coin of the hook part of the hanger! He managed to do it the first time he showed it to Dave on TV.
 

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4 games in now - 3 of them being losses - but this isn't a blame Vogel post

I like that Vogel doesn't have to stick with who he picked before game - if someone isn't having a productive night pop someone else in and I also like the way he gets after the refs - but - and there's always a but - we need to be focused throughout the game - hopefully this discombobulatedness is just a new team figuring itself out
 

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4 games in now - 3 of them being losses - but this isn't a blame Vogel post

I like that Vogel doesn't have to stick with who he picked before game - if someone isn't having a productive night pop someone else in and I also like the way he gets after the refs - but - and there's always a but - we need to be focused throughout the game - hopefully this discombobulatedness is just a new team figuring itself out
Don’t have that warm and fuzzy feeling any longer. Looking at the box score from last night one would think we won by 20. I’ll watch the tape of the game today for the eye test.

What the happened, defense take the night off? We came back from a 20 point deficit? What the heck?
 

BirdGangThing

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Don’t have that warm and fuzzy feeling any longer. Looking at the box score from last night one would think we won by 20. I’ll watch the tape of the game today for the eye test.

What the happened, defense take the night off? We came back from a 20 point deficit? What the heck?
First game we were way up in the first half and just lost interest

Second game Wemby happened
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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First game we were way up in the first half and just lost interest

Second game Wemby happened
This team should realistically be 4-1 and with a chance to win the game last night. That is without Booker and Beal for the most part. We will win a lot of games with ease when we are actually healthy.
 

95pro

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This team should realistically be 4-1 and with a chance to win the game last night. That is without Booker and Beal for the most part. We will win a lot of games with ease when we are actually healthy.

We just can't close games. We are like that young team who has tons of talent and mediocre that's competitive but can't quite figure it out.
 

AzStevenCal

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We just can't close games. We are like that young team who has tons of talent and mediocre that's competitive but can't quite figure it out.
I don't have a clue what we are just yet. With a bunch of players having to learn each other, learn their new coach and his system and a coaching staff having to learn about the players, it's impossible to know what we are or will become. I was hoping the fact that most of them are veterans might ease the process but so far, it's been almost the opposite.
 

Hoop Head

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I don't have a clue what we are just yet. With a bunch of players having to learn each other, learn their new coach and his system and a coaching staff having to learn about the players, it's impossible to know what we are or will become. I was hoping the fact that most of them are veterans might ease the process but so far, it's been almost the opposite.

I think some of the problems are guys playing up in the rotation. Allen and Gordon shouldn't be starting or dropping 20 a night for us to have a chance. Without Book, they did a good job but once Book came back those guys were too passive. We need some reps with our big 2 and 3 before we can say what this team is.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think some of the problems are guys playing up in the rotation. Allen and Gordon shouldn't be starting or dropping 20 a night for us to have a chance. Without Book, they did a good job but once Book came back those guys were too passive. We need some reps with our big 2 and 3 before we can say what this team is.
Yeah that's definitely a factor but with our known health problems, it might just be our reality this season.
 

Hoop Head

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As someone who didn't think Monty would be fired and felt he deserved 1 last run, I'm happy with Vogel. He's less stubborn than Monty in his rotations but he seems to ride KD like Monty did CP3. My main issue is how he'll play KD for the entire 1st and/or 3rd quarters. I'm curious though if part of why he does that is lack of quality frontcourt depth. KBD is only solid rotation guy who can play PF or SF. Metu hasn't been given much run and Little has been streaky, at best, albeit better lately. Behind those 3 guys though maybe Yuta can play a little small ball PF. His defense sucks but he's active and does fight for rebounds. This isn't about our frontcourt needs so much as Vogel's job as a coach though.

I'm not sure if Kevin Young was overrated or Vogel has essentially silenced him but our offense has been putrid at points and that is supposedly why we signed Young as the highest paid Assistant in the NBA. Just not seeing it, even with Book and KD on the court together. Lots of iso ball reminiscent of Vogel's Lakers teams. I'll wait until Beal returns to judge because we saw much better offensive scheming in preseason.

Overall I'm content with Vogel. Not overly pleased or enthused but not as down as some were early in the year, before this winning streak. I wouldn't have minded Nick Nurse, who seems to be thriving in Philadelphia, but other than Nurse, I think we made a better coaching change than the Bucks did. I know there were some other coaching changes as well but I'd put Vogel behind Nurse league wide as a coaching move and grade it a B or B-, nothing amazing but it didn't need to be.
 

Yuma

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As someone who didn't think Monty would be fired and felt he deserved 1 last run, I'm happy with Vogel. He's less stubborn than Monty in his rotations but he seems to ride KD like Monty did CP3. My main issue is how he'll play KD for the entire 1st and/or 3rd quarters. I'm curious though if part of why he does that is lack of quality frontcourt depth. KBD is only solid rotation guy who can play PF or SF. Metu hasn't been given much run and Little has been streaky, at best, albeit better lately. Behind those 3 guys though maybe Yuta can play a little small ball PF. His defense sucks but he's active and does fight for rebounds. This isn't about our frontcourt needs so much as Vogel's job as a coach though.

I'm not sure if Kevin Young was overrated or Vogel has essentially silenced him but our offense has been putrid at points and that is supposedly why we signed Young as the highest paid Assistant in the NBA. Just not seeing it, even with Book and KD on the court together. Lots of iso ball reminiscent of Vogel's Lakers teams. I'll wait until Beal returns to judge because we saw much better offensive scheming in preseason.

Overall I'm content with Vogel. Not overly pleased or enthused but not as down as some were early in the year, before this winning streak. I wouldn't have minded Nick Nurse, who seems to be thriving in Philadelphia, but other than Nurse, I think we made a better coaching change than the Bucks did. I know there were some other coaching changes as well but I'd put Vogel behind Nurse league wide as a coaching move and grade it a B or B-, nothing amazing but it didn't need to be.
We needed a change. So far so good. Been reading the players themselves want to run and push the pace. Sounds like KD, Book, and Beal have a lot of say in the offense.
 

BirdGangThing

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This year on offense
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1982baskets

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We've gone from what was perceived in the offseason to be a really bad D'Antoni level defense team to a decent defensive team, one with the right lineup, can flat out defend.

Our main issue is that we always have at least 1 or 2 weak links on defense, or just too small on the perimeter. This is the cost to get offense/3 point shooting. For example, Gordon, last I checked was an asset on offense, but had a weak defensive rating. Goodwin, on the other hand, a good defensive rating, weak rating on offense.

Best defensive rated players - Goodwin, KBD, Okogie, Eubanks. They are part of the rotation. They don't give you as offense as weaker rated defensive players like Gordon, Allen.

It does seem we could go to a defensive lineup to get stops. Right now we're relying a lot more on players like Gordon, Allen, even Nurk. Because Durant/Booker (not to mention Beal) have played only 7 games together. What's scary is we have a top 5 rated offense where Durant/Booker have played less than half the games and Beal/Durant/Book have played 0 games. If you can get this team to play top 15 defense, and have some quality shut down lineups, should be able to compete with anyone.
 

AzStevenCal

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I appreciate that Frank has seemingly reduced the poor quality/rushed 2 for 1 shot from the team. I don't remember it happening nearly as often this year.
Maybe it's Frank but I suspect it's just part of the maturation process of Devin Booker.
 

Phrazbit

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Maybe it's Frank but I suspect it's just part of the maturation process of Devin Booker.

Yeah, I think Booker playing with the mentality of a distributor is cutting down on some of the "hero ball" shots we used to see.

Even on the game winner vs the Knicks, he was patient and moved the ball around a bit to set up his look, rather than just dribbling the clock away and pulling up from wherever he could dribble his way toward.

He's flirted with shooting over 40% from 3 before, but then he's fallen in love with the three and had some ice cold stretches to bring the numbers down. Maybe this is the year he adds, truly, elite distance shooting to his skill set.
 

95pro

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Yeah, I think Booker playing with the mentality of a distributor is cutting down on some of the "hero ball" shots we used to see.

Even on the game winner vs the Knicks, he was patient and moved the ball around a bit to set up his look, rather than just dribbling the clock away and pulling up from wherever he could dribble his way toward.

He's flirted with shooting over 40% from 3 before, but then he's fallen in love with the three and had some ice cold stretches to bring the numbers down. Maybe this is the year he adds, truly, elite distance shooting to his skill set.

This was talked about on the PHNX podcast, and iirc they attributed that to coaching. Was night and day compared to the "5 out" where the other 4 just stood their.
 

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