Suns @ Bobcats 11/7/12 game thread.

[elindholm]

Finding the open man should be instinctual for NBA players, young or old.

Tucker was ahead of Dragic on the court. Unless Tucker didn't have a path to the rim, it would have been a risky waste of time to look behind him for an open teammate. If you're headed for the rim and the defense's only option is to foul you, that's as "open" as you need to be. I see no logic whatsoever behind being afraid of the defense fouling you (except in special situations at the ends of games, as I said before).

 

[BC867]

Tucker was ahead of Dragic on the court. Unless Tucker didn't have a path to the rim, it would have been a risky waste of time to look behind him for an open teammate. If you're headed for the rim and the defense's only option is to foul you, that's as "open" as you need to be. I see no logic whatsoever behind being afraid of the defense fouling you (except in special situations at the ends of games, as I said before).

I didn't see the first time he did it, but I saw the second time within the last minute or so of the game.

Dragić was shouting at him to pass him the ball because he was open. Even if he was saying it in Serbian, Tucker knew he was there.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't see the first time he did it, but I saw the second time within the last minute or so of the game.

Dragić was shouting at him to pass him the ball because he was open. Even if he was saying it in Serbian, Tucker knew he was there.

Of course Tucker knew Dragic was behind him but he had the shot and he took it.

Turn it around and have Dragic ahead driving to the basket with Tucker trailing. Would you want Dragic to chance a pass back to Tucker? I don't think so because of the risk of a turnover in a crucial time of the game.

You would probably be complaining if Dragic did not take the shot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Of course Tucker knew Dragic was behind him but he had the shot and he took it.

Turn it around and have Dragic ahead driving to the basket with Tucker trailing. Would you want Dragic to chance a pass back to Tucker? I don't think so because of the risk of a turnover in a crucial time of the game.

You would probably be complaining if Dragic did not take the shot.

Not a chance. IMO, it would have been an uncontested pass to an unguarded player, a player I might add who is used to handling the ball. Put Dragic in that situation and put Gortat on the wing and I could almost see a justification in forcing up a layup with a defender all over you but even then, I'd still prefer to make the basketball play. And he wasn't all that far behind Tucker, he was certainly in his vision.

Does anybody have a link to this play? I'm really confused by the few of you that are supporting Tucker's decision. It seemed so open and shut to me as it happened that it has me wondering if I missed something there.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Not a chance. IMO, it would have been an uncontested pass to an unguarded player, a player I might add who is used to handling the ball. Put Dragic in that situation and put Gortat on the wing and I could almost see a justification in forcing up a layup with a defender all over you but even then, I'd still prefer to make the basketball play. And he wasn't all that far behind Tucker, he was certainly in his vision.

Does anybody have a link to this play? I'm really confused by the few of you that are supporting Tucker's decision. It seemed so open and shut to me as it happened that it has me wondering if I missed something there.

Steve

Actually I shuffled the cards a bit. Tucker would have a perfect setup for Dragic to take the shot because Tucker would have been better suited to clean up a miss by Dragic.

If the shot had not been in the closing minutes of the game, passing the ball would have been the right play. However, passing the ball in this situation is not always smart when the driving player has a path to the rim.

 

[SirStefan32]

Does anybody have a link to this play? I'm really confused by the few of you that are supporting Tucker's decision. It seemed so open and shut to me as it happened that it has me wondering if I missed something there.

Steve

I was just about to ask the same thing. I remember this being really obvious- classic two-on-one fastbreak, but people (especially Eric) defending the play is really making me wonder if I missed something, or if we are talking about two different plays.

 

[elindholm]

I was just about to ask the same thing. I remember this being really obvious- classic two-on-one fastbreak, but people (especially Eric) defending the play is really making me wonder if I missed something, or if we are talking about two different plays.

I think people are remembering it incorrectly because Eddie Johnson went on a rant immediately afterward, calling out Tucker for being a "young player" who made a mistake. I like Johnson, but in this case I think he was just looking for something to say. Someone watching the game casually could easily have come to the conclusion that Tucker made a mistake, thanks to Johnson's yammering about it.

In any case, it wasn't a classic two-on-one break. It was a one-on-one break with Dragic trailing.

 

[Superbone]

I think people are remembering it incorrectly because Eddie Johnson went on a rant immediately afterward, calling out Tucker for being a "young player" who made a mistake. I like Johnson, but in this case I think he was just looking for something to say. Someone watching the game casually could easily have come to the conclusion that Tucker made a mistake, thanks to Johnson's yammering about it.

In any case, it wasn't a classic two-on-one break. It was a one-on-one break with Dragic trailing.

I think you're remembering it incorrectly. Dragic was not trailing. He was in front at the basket. It was a classic two-on-one break. Johnson said what he said because it was the facts. Tonight, the same situation occurred and this time Tucker gave up the ball (I believe it was to Brown this time). EJ referred back to the previous game and said that Tucker had learned his lesson.

 

[BC867]

I think people are remembering it incorrectly ... I think he was just looking for something to say.

Fans are remembering it incorrectly? An experienced NBA player and analyst was just looking for something to say?

'Sorry, but those vague personal comments haven't changed my opinion that the young Tucker made a mistake and was correctly called out for it.

Apparently he learned by the next occasion. It appears that Beasley is beginning to learn the same lessons about team play.

Good for them. Good for the fans. And good for the Suns, whether coaching staff or announcer, for heading off the kind of selfish play that could really doom a team.

 

[elindholm]

The "similar" situation last night wasn't remotely similar, but never mind, I'll drop it. You may continue to think me a fool; nothing I could say would change your opinion on that in any case.

 

[BC867]

You may continue to think me a fool; nothing I could say would change your opinion on that in any case.

Eric, oh Eric. I don't "continue to think (you) a fool" because I never considered you one. Opinions about the Suns or the NBA aren't about you or about me. They are about the game of basketball.

Why not leave personal comments to the politicians and enjoy the ASFN boards by sharing opinions. I have paid heed to every opinion I have read over the years and sometimes I change mine based on them.

But my goal is to include my opinions in the mix, not to change everyone else's. I have never thought of any of our fellow posters as a "fool" for having their own points of view.

 

[Mainstreet]

There were some similar instances in the Utah game tonight where the shooter had the shot and passed the ball off resulting in a turnover or no points. Most of the classic fast break opportunities are where two players pass the ball off to each other as they come down the court... not pass backwards at the end of a play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There were some similar instances in the Utah game tonight where the shooter had the shot and passed the ball off resulting in a turnover or no points. Most of the classic fast break opportunities are where two players pass the ball off to each other as they come down the court... not pass backwards at the end of a play.

I think we've pretty well established that we didn't see the play the same way and the fact you're focusing on a pass backwards just illustrates our difference. Yes, there are times when it's better not to make the pass but I assure you, if you had seen the play the same way I thought I saw the play, you'd have called it a horrible decision too.

I saw a wide open Dragic call for the ball and I saw Tucker opt for the contested shot rather than make the simple pass to a player that was clearly in his vision. No matter how you cut it, that's the wrong decision. Eddie Johnson was all over it, Dragic was all over it and I was screaming at him to pass long before I heard Eddie's comments. IOW, we saw something different than you saw. At this point, I have no idea which of us saw it correctly. It's crystal clear in my mind but my mind has played tricks on me before.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Eddie Johnson was all over it, Dragic was all over it and I was screaming at him to pass long before I heard Eddie's comments. IOW, we saw something different than you saw. At this point, I have no idea which of us saw it correctly. It's crystal clear in my mind but my mind has played tricks on me before.

You are a gentleman, Steve, but no need to doubt your opinion when two pro's (Dragic and E.J.) gave the same opinion.

Tucker is doing good things for us. But as a young player, he certainly should learn from his mistakes.

And I guess, with all the new faces on the roster, we shouldn't get too upset about the Suns sloppy teamwork after only a few games (including Gortat and Scola running into each other on rebounds). I have confidence that Alvin Gentry will have success working on it.

 

[Superbone]

I saw a wide open Dragic call for the ball and I saw Tucker opt for the contested shot rather than make the simple pass to a player that was clearly in his vision. No matter how you cut it, that's the wrong decision. Eddie Johnson was all over it, Dragic was all over it and I was screaming at him to pass long before I heard Eddie's comments. IOW, we saw something different than you saw. At this point, I have no idea which of us saw it correctly. It's crystal clear in my mind but my mind has played tricks on me before.

Steve

No reason to doubt what you saw Steve. I saw it too. Dragic was in layup position ahead of Tucker and I had the same reactions as you.

 

[Mainstreet]

I demand to see the video tape.

 

[BC867]

Bobcats trade

This item doesn't warrant its own thread, so I'll squeeze it into this Bobcats thread.

The Charlotte Bobcats acquired ex-Sun Hakim Warrick from the New Orleans Hornets in exchange for G Matt Carroll on Tuesday.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This item doesn't warrant its own thread, so I'll squeeze it into this Bobcats thread.

The Charlotte Bobcats acquired ex-Sun Hakim Warrick from the New Orleans Hornets in exchange for G Matt Carroll on Tuesday.

He played for the Suns? Are you sure?

Steve

 

[BC867]

He played for the Suns? Are you sure?

Steve

LOL.

OK, he partially played for the Suns.

 

[Superbone]

LOL.

OK, he partially played for the Suns.

I heard they got him because they wanted to shore up their defense. (I'm serious.)

 

[Errntknght]

I heard they got him because they wanted to shore up their defense. (I'm serious.)

Pretty obvious, really. With Warrick guaranteeing them more ping-pong balls they figure to have first crack at any good defensive player in the draft.

 

[95pro]

Warrick might be better than Morris or Beasley at this point. Least he can finish or draw some fouls. All three of their defense is weak.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Warrick might be better than Morris or Beasley at this point. Least he can finish or draw some fouls. All three of their defense is weak.

Beasley is really struggling and Morris is a marginal player at best but I'd take either of them over Warrick. I still maintain that Warrick is the single worst defender I have ever seen and his offense comes and goes.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Pretty obvious, really. With Warrick guaranteeing them more ping-pong balls they figure to have first crack at any good defensive player in the draft.

Well played.

Steve