Suns Are Markedly Better Than in the Playoffs

Mainstreet

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They definitely do and we scraped by in this game. To me it made no sense not using Biyombo. This is what I was referring to above. Fans here were screaming when the team was getting killed on the boards and struggling inside and Frank just lingered on the bench round after round. It's one thing that really bugs me about Monty. With our deep bench I don't want that to be an issue this playoff run.

Of course I agree about using Biyombo but I will give Monty credit for knowing the team better than we do.

Coming into the second of back-to-back games he knew the Suns needed to get quicker.

The beauty of the Suns is they can go big or small and win.
 

Covert Rain

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Of course I agree about using Biyombo but I will give Monty credit for knowing the team better than we do.

Coming into the second of back-to-back games he knew the Suns needed to get quicker.

The beauty of the Suns is they can go big or small and win.
Nobody is questioning if he knows the team better but there are certain areas the team didn't excel in when he shortened his bench. The stats don't lie. The Suns got killed on the boards last game and it almost cost us the game. Can they win? Sure but it sure seems like the Suns make it harder on themselves sometimes. If you look at most of the games the Suns have struggled in? They gave up a ton of second chance pints. Small ball doesn't alleviate that at all.
 

Mainstreet

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Nobody is questioning if he knows the team better but there are certain areas the team didn't excel in when he shortened his bench. The stats don't lie. The Suns got killed on the boards last game and it almost cost us the game. Can they win? Sure but it sure seems like the Suns make it harder on themselves sometimes.

Stats don't lie but the Suns were getting killed on the boards with the big men in the game before Monty went to small ball.
 

Covert Rain

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Stats don't lie but the Suns were getting killed on the boards with the big men in the game before Monty went to small ball.
Yet he left Biyombo on the bench. He left Frank on the bench during last year's playoffs. Again, look at the games we lost or were too close for comfort. You will see a pattern in terms of giving up second chance points.
 

Mainstreet

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Yet he left Biyombo on the bench. He left Frank on the bench during last year's playoffs. Again, look at the games we lost or were too close for comfort. You will see a pattern in terms of giving up second chance points.

Except last night it was the Suns big men allowing rebounds and second chance points.

Yes, I wanted Monty to give Biyombo an opportunity to play but I take into account the Suns big men were not getting the job done.

I think we all agree Frank should have received more playing time in the Finals. Whether it would have worked or not is another matter.

The likely reality is the Suns would have lost last night and at least one other game if Monty hadn't gone small. With Torrey Craig, expect more of it situationally.
 

Covert Rain

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Except last night it was the Suns big men allowing rebounds and second chance points.

Yes, I wanted Monty to give Biyombo an opportunity to play but I take into account the Suns big men were not getting the job done.

I think we all agree Frank should have received more playing time in the Finals. Whether it would have worked or not is another matter.

The likely reality is the Suns would have lost last night and at least one other game if Monty hadn't gone small. With Torrey Craig, expect more of it in situationally.
That didn't change when they went small. They had their chances in that stretch. Basically, we just outscored them which worked but didn't solve the problem and could have backfired. Once again it's the team's clutch play in the final minutes that saved them.
 

AzStevenCal

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We only played our bigs 38 minutes total. So I don’t think he forgot, I think he decided to strategically go small. The issue is that our smalls tend to get rebounded by opposition smalls that are athletic and crash the boards.

Also both Ayton and mcgee being unable to take advantage and kill the smaller squad on the offensive boards was a tremendous disappointment last night. It should’ve been a night where Ayton threatened 30 and 15 but ended up with 23 and 9 and was basically somewhat offset by by their lone 7 footer.
It wasn't just about last night, Biyombo has played slightly less than 26 minutes over the last 9 games.
 

Mainstreet

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That didn't change when they went small. Basically, we just out scored them which worked but didn't solve the problem and could have backfired. Once again it's the team's clutch play in the final minutes that saved them.

The game looked like a loss in the making until Monty went small. I don't know how you say it did it didn't solve the problem. It did last night.

Each game is different. Another night the Suns could go big and beat the Rockets.

Remember in the playoffs last season when the Clippers demolished the Jazz with Gobert in the lineup.
 

Covert Rain

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I went back to look at the offensive rebounds Phoenix gave up and the majority were because guards/forwards were not boxing out well: NBA.com video box score
It's amazing how this team can be so dominate on the inside night in and night out but yet at times this season just get absolutely worked on the boards and give up a ton of second chance points. When that happens this team really struggles. Thank goodness it doesn't happen that often.
 

Covert Rain

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This game looked like a loss coming until Monty went small. I don't know how you say it did it didn't solve the problem. It did last night.

Each game is different. Another night the Suns could go big and beat the Rockets.

Remember in the playoffs last season when the Clippers demolished the Jazz with Gobert in the lineup.
So we dominated the boards when we went small? Didn't give up second chance points? No we didn't. It didn't solve the problem. Also, I don't believe we still wouldn't have won the game had Biyombo been given time. Who knows. Like I said, Houston still had their chances down the stretch.
 

Mainstreet

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So we dominated the boards when we went small? Didn't give up second chance points? No we didn't. It didn't solve the problem. Also, I don't believe we still wouldn't have won the game had Biyombo been given time. Who knows. Like I said, Houston still had their chances down the stretch.

The proof is in the pudding.

As I previously mentioned most nights the Suns are going to win going with their bigs. However, there are always nights where it doesn't work.
 

Covert Rain

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The proof is in the pudding.

As I previously mentioned most nights the Suns are going to win going with their bigs. However, there are always nights where it doesn't work.
Winning the game and solving the problem that got us there are two different things which is the point I was making. The Suns are always going to have a chance to win if they continue to play clutch down the stretch. It's who this team is playing big or not this season. We just didn't get to see if Biyombo could have impacted the game or not. He has played very little as of late.
 

Mainstreet

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Winning the game and solving the problem that got us there are two different things which is the point I was making. The Suns are always going to have a chance to win if they continue to play clutch down the stretch. It's who this team is playing big or not this season. We just didn't get to see if Biyombo could have impacted the game or not. He has played very little as of late.

What is the problem that got us here? The Suns won.

If you are saying the Suns should always win by going big, I disagree as much as that pains me.

There will be nights where smaller, quicker, more athletic players and better outside shooting wins.

We agree the Suns should have tried Biyombo.
 

Covert Rain

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What is the problem that got us here? The Suns won.

If you are saying the Suns should always win by going big, I disagree as much as that pains me.

There will be nights where smaller, quicker, more athletic players and better outside shooting wins.

We agree the Suns should have tried Biyombo.
Rebounding and second chance points make some of these games closer than they need to be. In our losses we struggle there. We know the Suns won. The Suns just sometimes make it harder than it needs to be. Clutch play is great and all but I wouldn't mind seeing more blowouts. Small ball isn't going to get us more rebounds or reduce other teams second chance points. In this case it sparked some offense and worked. It's just not something that is going to solve where the team struggles sometimes.
 

Mainstreet

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Rebounding and second chance points make some of these games closer than they need to be. In our losses we struggle there. We know the Suns won. The Suns just sometimes make it harder than it needs to be. Clutch play is great and all but I wouldn't mind seeing more blowouts. Small ball isn't going to get us more rebounds or reduce other teams second chance points. In this case it sparked some offense and worked. It's just not something that is going to solve where the team struggles sometimes.

The same strategy doesn't work for every game. I'd like for every Suns win to be a blowout as well.

When the Hawks and Heat blew the Suns out they shot .500 from three. It happens.

Small ball is simply an option to match-up better when things don't work. It's not an every game thing.
 

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I get people saying Book is above Klay. i tend to be mostly in that camp but do remember that Klay has a 2nd team all defensive team nod before the injuries.

Better shooter. Was a better defender. Worse ball handler. Similar shot creator.

It's a tight race IMO but book gets the edge due to the injuries.

Still, not Steph, KD, Giannis, AD, Lebron, etc. Definitely not Kobe, and maybe not Kyrie when he's on. I need to see Book become a force of nature. Go 50/40/90 for a playoffs or average 30+ for a series on 50% shooting.
 

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I went back to look at the offensive rebounds Phoenix gave up and the majority were because guards/forwards were not boxing out well: NBA.com video box score
It was our biggest weakness last year. Get DA in foul trouble and pound the offensive glass. Brook Lopez, Giannis, and even Middleton and Jrue are great rebounders.
 

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I get people saying Book is above Klay. i tend to be mostly in that camp but do remember that Klay has a 2nd team all defensive team nod before the injuries.

Better shooter. Was a better defender. Worse ball handler. Similar shot creator.

It's a tight race IMO but book gets the edge due to the injuries.

Still, not Steph, KD, Giannis, AD, Lebron, etc. Definitely not Kobe, and maybe not Kyrie when he's on. I need to see Book become a force of nature. Go 50/40/90 for a playoffs or average 30+ for a series on 50% shooting.
AD is perpetually injured. Kyrie while a great scorer doesn’t necessarily effect winning and he’s not a good defender and older. We have to remember Book is only 25. Steph won MVP at 27-28. He’s still growing. He can be 50-40-90 if he takes shots within the flow instead of forcing it. But make no mistake, Devin Booker is the best 2 guard in basketball. He’s a dawg.
 

Covert Rain

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The same strategy doesn't work for every game. I'd like for every Suns win to be a blowout as well.

When the Hawks and Heat blew the Suns out they shot .500 from three. It happens.

Small ball is simply an option to match-up better when things don't work. It's not an every game thing.
Oh I agree with you there. I think it can spark things for sure. I just don't want to see Monty not go deep into the bench when there are options for the sake of shortening the bench.
 

Mainstreet

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Oh I agree with you there. I think it can spark things for sure. I just don't want to see Monty not go deep into the bench when there are options for the sake of shortening the bench.

We agree 100% on that.

IMO, the Suns should expand the use of their bench down the stretch to keep their players fresh for the playoffs especially Devin Booker and Chris Paul.
 

cheesebeef

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AD is perpetually injured. Kyrie while a great scorer doesn’t necessarily effect winning and he’s not a good defender and older. We have to remember Book is only 25. Steph won MVP at 27-28. He’s still growing. He can be 50-40-90 if he takes shots within the flow instead of forcing it. But make no mistake, Devin Booker is the best 2 guard in basketball. He’s a dawg.

you know... I was about to push back in him being the best 2 guard in the league and when I thought about it more than a second, I think you're dead on. He's a legit top 15 guy in this league now. That's a pretty incredible status to reach. Was never sure if he'd get there, but the last two years, he's been a big time guy on one of this best teams in the league, proving he wasn't just a stat stuffer. And that's all without even mentioning his defense growing leaps and bounds.

if his handles ever get elite, he could reach unstoppable status.
 

Covert Rain

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you know... I was about to push back in him being the best 2 guard in the league and when I thought about it more than a second, I think you're dead on. He's a legit top 15 guy in this league now. That's a pretty incredible status to reach. Was never sure if he'd get there, but the last two years, he's been a big time guy on one of this best teams in the league, proving he wasn't just a stat stuffer. And that's all without even mentioning his defense growing leaps and bounds.

if his handles ever get elite, he could reach unstoppable status.
His improvement on the other end can't be stated enough. During the Clippers game he got burned a couple times and was visibly upset during the commercial break. So much so that it looked like Bridges and Paul were talking him down. He went out after that got a steal, deflection and fought for a defensive rebound. He wants to get better there. Not sure I could say that when he entered the league.
 

AzStevenCal

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It was our biggest weakness last year. Get DA in foul trouble and pound the offensive glass. Brook Lopez, Giannis, and even Middleton and Jrue are great rebounders.
It wasn't really a weakness against the Bucks until our guards came up injured. Prior to that CP3, Booker and Payne made them pay if they put Lopez or Portis out there with Giannis.
 

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