Suns and upcoming CBA Big Change per WOJ

Yuma

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The Suns as we know them are at stake this series – Michael Wilbon | NBA Countdown

You must watch this ESPN video. The first part about the Suns and battling Denver we already know. It's the second half (approx starts at 2 minutes in) where WOJ drops a bombshell about "Second Apron" which is the Second Tax Apron that has been added to the new CBA. WOJ is saying the League wants those third stars on a team to be in other markets to spread the talent around. He is saying that not only will money, and roster make up be affected by this second apron, but teams could lose draft picks, too! WOJ is saying if you go into this Second Apron, you will find it extremely difficult to add veteran talent to your roster in support of the top players. WOJ is saying you will see less talented players comprising the rest of the roster. WOJ says this is a hot topic that will dominate NBA talk all summer, and WOJ believes it will lead to one of the most busy trade markets ever.

I think at the end of the day, the Suns, who will be looking to build around Booker and Durant anyway, would be primed for a full roster rebuild if they move on from Chris Paul, and trade Ayton anyway. It sound like if we trade Ayton, it would probably be for a package of players, to not still have that third high paid guy. My question would be, if you could only have two max contracts to build around as the league wants, would that make teams more likely or less likely to trade for Ayton? If you were another team and knew you were filling one of two of your roster spots with DA, would you want to do that? Would that essentially make DA untradable?
 

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The Suns as we know them are at stake this series – Michael Wilbon | NBA Countdown

You must watch this ESPN video. The first part about the Suns and battling Denver we already know. It's the second half (approx starts at 2 minutes in) where WOJ drops a bombshell about "Second Apron" which is the Second Tax Apron that has been added to the new CBA. WOJ is saying the League wants those third stars on a team to be in other markets to spread the talent around. He is saying that not only will money, and roster make up be affected by this second apron, but teams could lose draft picks, too! WOJ is saying if you go into this Second Apron, you will find it extremely difficult to add veteran talent to your roster in support of the top players. WOJ is saying you will see less talented players comprising the rest of the roster. WOJ says this is a hot topic that will dominate NBA talk all summer, and WOJ believes it will lead to one of the most busy trade markets ever.

I think at the end of the day, the Suns, who will be looking to build around Booker and Durant anyway, would be primed for a full roster rebuild if they move on from Chris Paul, and trade Ayton anyway. It sound like if we trade Ayton, it would probably be for a package of players, to not still have that third high paid guy. My question would be, if you could only have two max contracts to build around as the league wants, would that make teams more likely or less likely to trade for Ayton? If you were another team and knew you were filling one of two of your roster spots with DA, would you want to do that? Would that essentially make DA untradable?
If I knew those changes were coming, I wouldn't have traded for KD.
 
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Yuma

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If I knew those changes were coming, I wouldn't have traded for KD.
It's interesting, because if we didn't, we still have Bridges and Johnson at less than max which would be a plus. We would have CP3 and Ayton left like we do now, which would be a minus. We could not pick up the option on CP3 and then Book with would be stuck with Ayton as the second max deal. I still like Book and KD over Book and Ayton as the two max deals you build around.
 

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The Suns as we know them are at stake this series – Michael Wilbon | NBA Countdown

You must watch this ESPN video. The first part about the Suns and battling Denver we already know. It's the second half (approx starts at 2 minutes in) where WOJ drops a bombshell about "Second Apron" which is the Second Tax Apron that has been added to the new CBA. WOJ is saying the League wants those third stars on a team to be in other markets to spread the talent around. He is saying that not only will money, and roster make up be affected by this second apron, but teams could lose draft picks, too! WOJ is saying if you go into this Second Apron, you will find it extremely difficult to add veteran talent to your roster in support of the top players. WOJ is saying you will see less talented players comprising the rest of the roster. WOJ says this is a hot topic that will dominate NBA talk all summer, and WOJ believes it will lead to one of the most busy trade markets ever.

I think at the end of the day, the Suns, who will be looking to build around Booker and Durant anyway, would be primed for a full roster rebuild if they move on from Chris Paul, and trade Ayton anyway. It sound like if we trade Ayton, it would probably be for a package of players, to not still have that third high paid guy. My question would be, if you could only have two max contracts to build around as the league wants, would that make teams more likely or less likely to trade for Ayton? If you were another team and knew you were filling one of two of your roster spots with DA, would you want to do that? Would that essentially make DA untradable?
There it is...

Unfortunately for Phoenix, they will have to hitch their wagon to 2 stars who can't stay healthy and will probably need to enter the "load management" crap, to try and have them ready for the playoffs. KD will be 35 and have 1000 games of mileage on him, before next season starts...and his last 2 (including this year) years of playoff basketball leave little to be desired, IMO.
 

dreamcastrocks

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It's interesting, because if we didn't, we still have Bridges and Johnson at less than max which would be a plus. We would have CP3 and Ayton left like we do now, which would be a minus. We could not pick up the option on CP3 and then Book with would be stuck with Ayton as the second max deal. I still like Book and KD over Book and Ayton as the two max deals you build around.
Not me, when you consider Bridges/Johnson and 4 first round picks.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Yeah, the big issue is KD himself right now. Unless he plays like a superstar (which he isn't), the deal is a dud. How he comes out tonight will say a lot about what we have moving forward. A superstar needs to step up when it matters the most, and KD hasn't done that at all.
 

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Does anyone not think we could trade KD for a package similar to the one we just gave for him to a contender after next year? I don't think we would, but we absolutely could. the Knicks, Heat, Pels, etc all come to mind.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Does anyone not think we could trade KD for a package similar to the one we just gave for him to a contender after next year? I don't think we would, but we absolutely could. the Knicks, Heat, Pels, etc all come to mind.
Not me.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Does anyone not think we could trade KD for a package similar to the one we just gave for him to a contender after next year? I don't think we would, but we absolutely could. the Knicks, Heat, Pels, etc all come to mind.
Based on his play, the last 2 playoffs? Nope.
 

elindholm

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Does anyone not think we could trade KD for a package similar to the one we just gave for him to a contender after next year? I don't think we would, but we absolutely could. the Knicks, Heat, Pels, etc all come to mind.

His market value is lower now than when the Suns traded for him, and no one else was close to matching the Suns' offer. So no, they could not trade him for a package comparable to what they paid.
 

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They don’t lose picks, they lose the ability to trade them or do any trade that adds salary.

None of this should be a surprise to the suns as these negotiations had been going for years.

The KD trade was foolish regardless.
 

Mainstreet

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I would think James Jones had to be aware of the direction of the new CBA agreement.

There was an article written about the new agreement by Adrian Wojnarowski, Senior NBA Insider back on Apr 1, 2023, so none of this is new. Negotiations had been ongoing for a long time.

The Suns way overpaid for Durant and it is going to handicap the team for years and years to come.

 

Proximo

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The Suns as we know them are at stake this series – Michael Wilbon | NBA Countdown

You must watch this ESPN video. The first part about the Suns and battling Denver we already know. It's the second half (approx starts at 2 minutes in) where WOJ drops a bombshell about "Second Apron" which is the Second Tax Apron that has been added to the new CBA. WOJ is saying the League wants those third stars on a team to be in other markets to spread the talent around. He is saying that not only will money, and roster make up be affected by this second apron, but teams could lose draft picks, too! WOJ is saying if you go into this Second Apron, you will find it extremely difficult to add veteran talent to your roster in support of the top players. WOJ is saying you will see less talented players comprising the rest of the roster. WOJ says this is a hot topic that will dominate NBA talk all summer, and WOJ believes it will lead to one of the most busy trade markets ever.

I think at the end of the day, the Suns, who will be looking to build around Booker and Durant anyway, would be primed for a full roster rebuild if they move on from Chris Paul, and trade Ayton anyway. It sound like if we trade Ayton, it would probably be for a package of players, to not still have that third high paid guy. My question would be, if you could only have two max contracts to build around as the league wants, would that make teams more likely or less likely to trade for Ayton? If you were another team and knew you were filling one of two of your roster spots with DA, would you want to do that? Would that essentially make DA untradable?
Well your right it probably does hurt the market for Ayton, but there are still a few small market teams like Charlotte, Portland, Utah, San Antonio, Indiana that might be willing to take him on at the moment
 

Proximo

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I would think James Jones had to be aware of the direction of the new CBA agreement.

There was an article written about the new agreement by Adrian Wojnarowski, Senior NBA Insider back on Apr 1, 2023 so none of this is new. Negotiations had been ongoing for a long time.

The Suns way overpaid for Durant and it is going to handicap the team for years and years to come.

While I think the Suns over paid, I don't think they "WAY" over paid.

The Nets absolutely could have gotten a comparable offer from other teams.
 

Raindog

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While I think this is overall a good thing for the league to prevent some measure of guys moving around to create "superteams," I agree that the timing was bad for the Suns. I also agree that if they (somehow) could have anticipated it, they would have been better off not trading for Durant.

It seems that as a result of the new CBA, the league may be shifting to a paradigm of teams having one mega star, one lesser star, and an assortment of good and lesser supporting players. This is probably a good thing overall in ensuring some measure of parity throughout the league instead of tiers of "haves" and "have nots." Now the best way to build a somewhat elite team is going to be mostly through the draft and scouting as that will be your best source for high impact/low cost talent.

Furthermore, it seems like free agency will be mainly limited to second tier (and lower) supporting players, unless some team just gets lucky enough circumstances to be clearing out a whole lot of cap space in the same season when multiple superstar FA options are available on the market. I'm guessing that won't be a frequent thing, so no more Lebron/2010 Miami Heat type events.

It does hurt that this all comes when the Suns probably finally have the resources to make those kinds of big splashes. Again, the good fortunes of being a Suns fan.
 

Proximo

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This CBA change would make it more difficult. His dip in play also would seem to make it more difficult.

But given the right situation, yes I think we could. It would have to be to a team he was willing to go to that has draft pick assets though, which would seriously limit it however.

But there is no desire to make such a trade at least for the coming season.
 

Mainstreet

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While I think the Suns over paid, I don't think they "WAY" over paid.

The Nets absolutely could have gotten a comparable offer from other teams.

I wish some other team had done it because the Suns paid a King's ransom for a soon to be 35-year-old player with a history of injury.
 
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Proximo

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While I think this is overall a good thing for the league to prevent some measure of guys moving around to create "superteams," I agree that the timing was bad for the Suns. I also agree that if they (somehow) could have anticipated it, they would have been better off not trading for Durant.

It seems that as a result of the new CBA, the league may be shifting to a paradigm of teams having one mega star, one lesser star, and an assortment of good and lesser supporting players. This is probably a good thing overall in ensuring some measure of parity throughout the league instead of tiers of "haves" and "have nots." Now the best way to build a somewhat elite team is going to be mostly through the draft and scouting as that will be your best source for high impact/low cost talent.

Furthermore, it seems like free agency will be mainly limited to second tier (and lower) supporting players, unless some team just gets lucky enough circumstances to be clearing out a whole lot of cap space in the same season when multiple superstar FA options are available on the market. I'm guessing that won't be a frequent thing, so no more Lebron/2010 Miami Heat type events.

It does hurt that this all comes when the Suns probably finally have the resources to make those kinds of big splashes. Again, the good fortunes of being a Suns fan.
I think you are underestimating the effect Ishiba had on making this deal as is. I really believe James Jones would not have made the deal without him taking over.

At the very least there is no chance Crowder would have been included unless Ishiba had demanded the deal go down, that was the Nets taking advantage of his desire to get the deal done at all costs.
 

Mainstreet

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I think you are underestimating the effect Ishiba had on making this deal as is. I really believe James Jones would not have made the deal without him taking over.

At the very least there is no chance Crowder would have been included unless Ishiba had demanded the deal go down, that was the Nets taking advantage of his desire to get the deal done at all costs.

And Saric was traded to save cash.
 

Phrazbit

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This effects the Warriors, Clippers, Nuggets and Celtics more than the Suns. They are paying multiple max deals and have several secondary players on large salaries.

This also screws the Lakers over if they want to keep their newly built team remotely intact.

The Suns are below the projected threshold, even without factoring in future cap increases... and we obviously will not be extending Paul or Shamet. But adding another star to the current mix, even without Paul or Shamet, will be basically impossible... but that was ensured when we gave up every trade asset we had for KD.

And no, we could not get even a fraction of what we paid for KD back in return. I don't think anyone was ever going to pony up such an offer for him had he stayed in Brooklyn and there is no way in hell a team would give it to us.
 

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I'm glad Woj addressed the changes and Suns specifically because now some people might understand what some of us have been saying about being screwed by the new CBA. The KD deal was an overpay at the time and with these details about the new CBA and restrictions that will come into play, it makes the trade that much worse. It's championship or bust, quite literally. It doesn't matter if Ishbia has deep pockets if he's unable to spend his way out of the hole. This new CBA comes pretty damn close to eliminating the ability of deep pocketed owners to buy their way to a title now.
 

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They have not established what the apron will be and the Suns prior to the trade were I think only behind GS warriors in the luxury tax at the time. After a bunch of teams trading I think they are in the top 6 now. It all depends on where they set the apron. The Suns are $73 million over the cap. Durant is costing us 48 Million. Bridges cap hit next year was $21 Million and if we resigned Cam J (rockets are reported offering 22 Million per) that would be $43 million in salary or that territory.

There likely wouldn't have been much difference in terms of hitting the apron if we didn't trade for KD, stayed the course with Bridges, Cam J and wouldn't be contenders for a title to boot. I am willing to bet, trade or not, we would be at or near the apron either way. The NBA wants to punish the high spending teams and will likely look closely at the top spenders salary when setting that bar.

This is what the NBA wants. They want you to have 1 star and a team rounded out with higher paid veterans or if teams decide to have 2 stars even lesser players making up the rest of your roster. Ironically, the kind of team we have this year is the kind of team your going to see across the league should teams have 2 stars going forward. It sure seems like after the KD trade or staying the course, with these changes, the only avenue the Suns are going to have to make impactful roster changes is to move Ayton.
 
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