Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Covert Rain]

Lost in the finals and then won a franchise record 64 games before an embarrassing 2nd round loss the following year. That's it. That isn't regressing consistently. They did struggle the next season due to injuries, with Cam J missing over 2 months, Jae Crowder being out, no backup for Ayton, and Paul getting older and older by the day but to act as if the only direction to go was blowing it up for KD to improve the team is ridiculous. If that team regressed consistently then what do you call the nonsense wheeled out since?

It's not? Wait, not getting back to the finals and getting utterly embarrassed after the best record in the league isn't regressing? OK.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's not? Wait, not getting back to the finals and getting utterly embarrassed after the best record in the league isn't regressing? OK.

So now we get swept. Still regressing. Great move! Good thing we went out and added that star who was clamoring to be here. Not that his desires mattered since he was under contract to another team who made it clear they were not going to trade him unless they received full value for him as if he were in his prime. It had to be done. Now you'll say it didn't need to be KD but that's only now that's it been made clear KD is a bit of a cancer.

 

[Covert Rain]

So now we get swept. Still regressing. Great move! Good thing we went out and added that star who was clamoring to be here. Not that his desires mattered since he was under contract to another team who made it clear they were not going to trade him unless they received full value for him as if he were in his prime. It had to be done. Now you'll say it didn't need to be KD but that's only now that's it been made clear KD is a bit of a cancer.

Nobody had a crystal ball. Majority of the NBA thought this team would contend. This team was going nowhere as built and last time I checked the goal was still a title.

Trading for KD hasn’t worked but at least they did something. I can’t fault them for trying something.

 

[BirdGangThing]

the kd experiment hasn't failed yet - the big 3 hasn't failed as an experiment - yet

if we suck balls in 2024 - with the same squad under a different coach - then it's a failure

what we are now is a work in progress - i think we'll be much better but im not trying to argue that point for months on end just my two cents

 

[Hoop Head]

Nobody had a crystal ball. Majority of the NBA thought this team would contend. This team was going nowhere as built and last time I checked the goal was still a title.

Trading for KD hasn’t worked but at least they did something. I can’t fault them for trying something.

And they tried something stupid that cost way too much. I refuse to give them a pass for trying. Trying doesn't get you a banner. Either you win or you lose and we lost while paying a premium to lose even more.

 

[Covert Rain]

And they tried something stupid that cost way too much. I refuse to give them a pass for trying. Trying doesn't get you a banner. Either you win or you lose and we lost while paying a premium to lose even more.

Giving them credit for trying something is not the same thing as acknowledging something didn’t work.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I find it amusing that the loudest voices who claim the pre-KD roster couldn't win were the biggest supporters of the KD trade, which made us worse. So why does their claim the pre-KD version of the Suns with the Twins carry any weight? Clearly their plan to improve upon that team failed spectacularly but for whatever reason they still claim the KD traded NEEDED to happen.


A time machine would solve this mess. Short of that, I'm with @Proximo that KD needs traded. If we don't get some value this off-season then we'll be in a spot next off-season where we have to find a way to dump his salary, ala Shaq. The whole KD deal looks more like Shaq 2.0 by the day.

No the KD trade didn’t need to happen. But something did. That team had Booker, a great third banana in bridges, a maxed out and injury prone cam Johnson, the Tinman (Ayton), the corpse of Chris Paul and a bunch of parts including all of our draft picks which were likely to be around 17 and worse. We weren’t getting much for Ayton. We were lucky to get a beal for Paul (I guess alternatively we could’ve gotten the Tinman part deux in poole). That squad was devoid of talent, but it wasn’t in ascension mode any longer. It was descending due to Paul’s game falling off the cliff.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How high can you count? Right now, there isn't much else to talk about and almost every conversation dovetails into the decision to trade for KD.

But it really shouldn’t. What’s done is done. I haven’t seen any new angles or perspectives. The focus should be about what can we do moving forward?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who is acting like that? We had an outside chance to win it all when we had CP3 playing like an all star and Ayton giving effort. With CP3's decline and Ayton mailing it in we were no longer all that close to being a contender and most of us knew it. Not wanting to give up way too many assets for KD is not the same thing as thinking we didn't need to improve.

Some fall into your category. Some think it was still contender and refuse to acknowledge Ayton wasn’t a plus, Paul had become a negative, and cam Johnson was what he was going to be. Bridges had remaining upside, but even that ceiling has proven lower than his proponents crowed about, and that was about it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lost in the finals and then won a franchise record 64 games before an embarrassing 2nd round loss the following year. That's it. That isn't regressing consistently. They did struggle the next season due to injuries, with Cam J missing over 2 months, Jae Crowder being out, no backup for Ayton, and Paul getting older and older by the day but to act as if the only direction to go was blowing it up for KD to improve the team is ridiculous. If that team regressed consistently then what do you call the nonsense wheeled out since?

See, this type of post downplays the regression and makes you believe the poster considered the suns still contender which they were very clearly not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What the team was or wasn’t before the trade isn’t really relevant.

You don’t trade all that for a 35 year old. Period.

Factor in the injuries and the toxicity… it’s bonkers.

And this is just an inaccurate comment. If Paul hadn’t forgotten how to play basketball and Ayton hadn’t proven unreliable but rather had been on an upward trajectory, and the suns hadn’t been embarrassed by Dallas, likely few here would have been for the kd trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am saying the trade for KD didn't HAVE to happen. Getting another star to play alongside Booker did if we wanted to win a title. You good?

And frankly if we wanted to hold onto Booker likely.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And they tried something stupid that cost way too much. I refuse to give them a pass for trying. Trying doesn't get you a banner. Either you win or you lose and we lost while paying a premium to lose even more.

Man you must be the biggest suns anti-fan ever then because to my recollection they have never gotten a banner.

 

[Hoop Head]

Man you must be the biggest suns anti-fan ever then because to my recollection they have never gotten a banner.

The KD trade was Shaq 2.0. Making bad moves for the sake of making moves doesn't get you anything. There's no participation trophies in the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This convo always proves fruitful and harmonious for the board…

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The KD trade was Shaq 2.0. Making bad moves for the sake of making moves doesn't get you anything. There's no participation trophies in the NBA.

It wasn’t for the sake of making moves. As has been said time and again, a LOT of fans and media thought it was a good short-term move. It ended up not being a great move. Is what it is. All the teeth gnashing in the world won’t change it now. And it’s almost universally (except birdgangthing) been accepted as a bad deal. So yeah . . .

 

[BirdGangThing]

It wasn’t for the sake of making moves. As has been said time and again, a LOT of fans and media thought it was a good short-term move. It ended up not being a great move. Is what it is. All the teeth gnashing in the world won’t change it now. And it’s almost universally (except birdgangthing) been accepted as a bad deal. So yeah . . .

whoooaaaaa there big fella - i said the kd experiment hasn't failed yet - not that it wasn't a bad deal - we gave up way too much - but as far as kd goes he was the only one of the big 3 who didn't get injured - was top 10 in scoring all year (led at the beginning) - and played good defense - aside from the turnovers kd had a stellar year

if book and beal had stayed as healthy as kd...

kd is why we made the playoffs

but especially with the new apron - it was not a good deal

 

[Chaplin]

This convo always proves fruitful and harmonious for the board…

Come on, this par for the course on this board. This thread isn't exactly unusual.

 

[BirdGangThing]

kd was not the problem - much the opposite - definitely still gots it

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[Phrazbit]

kd was not the problem - much the opposite - definitely still gots it

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The cost of the trade is a massive problem. It created new roster problems that can't really be fixed, while also not really fixing any of the problems we had.

He's still individually really talented... he's also a uber passive aggressive pain in the ass that checks out for long stretches and doesn't do anything on offense without the ball in his hands.

 

[clyde2tw]

KD trade happened, there is now not much feasible other than keeping the big-3 core.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

whoooaaaaa there big fella - i said the kd experiment hasn't failed yet - not that it wasn't a bad deal - we gave up way too much - but as far as kd goes he was the only one of the big 3 who didn't get injured - was top 10 in scoring all year (led at the beginning) - and played good defense - aside from the turnovers kd had a stellar year

if book and beal had stayed as healthy as kd...

kd is why we made the playoffs

but especially with the new apron - it was not a good deal

Fair enough

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Come on, this par for the course on this board. This thread isn't exactly unusual.

It’s like every other one . . . eventually.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

kd was not the problem - much the opposite - definitely still gots it

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Eh, I was 100% for bringing in KD, but to say he wasn’t the problem is only accurate if stress the “the.” He was definitely part of the problem.

 

[taz02]

Didn't KD average 27ppg last season? it's not like he was injured or didn't produce.

Once DA flamed out, CP3 hit the end of his career and Booker was confirmed not to be the #1 guy the team was toast.

Dragging Booker through a certain 5 year rebuild wasn't appealing to anyone so they swung for the fences and took a huge.

It hasn't worked, but it is possible, with the right system and leadership, the team could be significantly better.

Personally, I liked the fact they swung for the fences, I agree they overpaid by a lot, the trade hasn't worked and there is a slim chance it ever will. Next season will likely end like the last, they'll blow it up and start over from scratch.

At least the owner is all in.