So long Leonard

[Mulli]

A wise man once said, "We were 5-11 with him, we can be 5-11 without him."

Or something like that.



I am not too upset by this news. Maybe I am just jaded.

 

[Pariah]

And what says the Card wont ultimately do that?

If they do, then I take it all back. But, you don't really believe that, do you?

Davis is going to go make some other team better for lots and lots of money...money that the cardinals have, but are choosing not to spend.

I'll also take it back if the Cards have a 2007 plan to replace Davis with a pro-bowl alternate or better LT. But, again, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BACH]

Some team will pay him that much. It's what the market is going to bear.

What if Davis commanded $13M a year to sign an extension?

 

[abomb]

What if Davis commanded $13M a year to sign an extension?

I was never and am not in favor of signing him to a long-term deal. I was/am in favor of tagging him, paying him this year and then deciding what to do with another year under our belts.

 

[Pariah]

Why pay Hummer prices for a Jeep?

You're comparing this situation to a market that is flush with options. You pay more for a commodity when the supply of the commodity is rare and the demand is high.

There aren't many good LTs (and, yes--despite what you say the facts bear out in favor of Davis being a very good LT), and a great many teams want a good LT. Thus, you pay hummer-prices.

 

[jmr667]

LD was merely a solid contributer on a crappy O-Line for the last 5 years or so. Keep that in mind rather than try to think of it as trying to replace a #2 overall draft pick. Its easier on your blood pressure.

 

[Stout]

So, the problem people have with tagging him is that he may sign the tender and we'd be on the hook for 11 mill, yes? True, that is a risk. If he did that, we have more than enough cap room to pay him and still chase after anybody we want in FA. God doesn't have as much cap room as we do. We don't even have to start him; we can still try and find a replacement. It would be a lot of money for a backup, but I think if he signed the tender, we could definitely find a use for him.

That risk, though, is so minute as to be laughable. LD likely doesn't want to stay. We've heard grumblings that he'd like to go back to Texas, and I think both Dallas and Houston would love to have him. If they want to trade for him, they will not have to pay him 11 million a season; you can work out a sign-and-trade for a franchise player, where we get our compensation in the form of draft picks, and the other team gets to sign him to a brand new contract with an extension. I cannot think, for a minute, that if we and a franchised LD went to the Texans and offered him for even an expensive deal and extension, and a 3rd round pick, that it would be refused.

So, are some of you STILL thrilled with this move? Low-risk, high-reward. And if you don't have the balls to take a risk like that, you don't belong in an NFL front office.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sounds like what happened with Jamir Miller. I don't trust the Cards to make the right decision because they never have.

As for David Boston, Frank Sanders and Jake Plummer it took the Cards #1 in 2003 their #2 in 2003 their #1 in 2004 and the #1 in 2006 to replace them. No wonder Whiz is lamenting the lack of depth on the team.

Since letting those losers go the Cards have averaged 5-11 and had the distinction of finishing dead last in points scored and points allowed in 2003 and fired two coaches.

Funny how we've gone from chastising Green for getting rid of Kendall and Shelton to praising Graves for getting rid of LDavis.

What difference does paying some player 10% of the salary cap make when you still have over 80 million left and 46 guys make less than 1 million? I sure hope they plan on bringing in some million dollar+ talent with all that extra money to replace those lower paid guys

LDavis was frustratingly inconsistent but he is far better than any other Tackle on the roster and now FA slots and draft picks that could be used to improve the lack of depth will have to be used to replace him instead.


Garrison Hearst - 49ers
Jamir Miller - Browns
Simeon Rice- Tampa
Tom Knight-Pats,Rams
LJ Shelton - Miami
David Boston-San Diego,Miami,Tampa
Thomas Jones-Chicago
LDavis????

What a legacy.

The only way that I will be able to reserve judgement is if we go after, and land at least one of the top free agents available (Samuel, Thomas, Briggs, etc) With the 10 million we would have spent on Big by franchising one of them, and I guarantee that we could give one of those players a $10 +million signing bonus and they would come over. That still leaves the 20+ million that we have left over to add more depth.

 

[Pariah]

Another thing: This IS NOT an either/or situation. We could tag Davis AND have room to sign one more big FA and a couple of depth guys.

 

[abomb]

You're comparing this situation to a market that is flush with options. You pay more for a commodity when the supply of the commodity is rare and the demand is high.

There aren't many good LTs (and, yes--despite what you say the facts bear out in favor of Davis being a very good LT), and a great many teams want a good LT. Thus, you pay hummer-prices.

I'll take it even one step further;

There are ten people who need a car. There are only five Jeeps and one Hummer. Given the scarcity and the fact that all ten people have money to spend, the price of the Jeeps is much higher than normal model years. You have the opportunity to lease the Jeep at a rate slightly higher than last year, but have the ability to get rid of it next year, no questions asked when you realize it's a piece of crap that rarely starts on time. In the meantime, you had a decent vehicle that did the job and was better than what four people got (nothing).

 

[Rats]

What a bad, bad decision.

Why is it every single season I have to ask the same question to the fans on this board: Why do you care if Davis is overpaid? It's not your money. To you, it's play-money--money that generally goes unspent before the season begins.

Congratulations, Bidwills. You saved some money and left (another) gaping hole to fill on the offensive line.

God, this is getting old.

Same old Same old. Letting your better players go because they cost to much. I agree with you 100%. We will look at saving 10 to 15 million in cap space and have to hear Rod tell us there was no one he felt was good enough to spend the money on. No accountability to the fan base.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Cardinals won’t tag Davis

Darren Urban, Tribune

The Biggest player personnel decision the Cardinals had this offseason has been made — and it all but cements the fact left tackle Leonard “Big” Davis will be playing elsewhere in 2007.

Cardinals vice president of football operations Rod Graves said Thursday night the team will not use the franchise tag on Davis, who becomes a free agent next month. NFL teams must decide by Feb. 22 whether or not to tag players.

The team will not use the lesser transition tag either, Graves said.

Beyond that, Graves declined to comment, other than to say the Cardinals have not closed the door on bringing Davis back. But Davis’ agent, Ryan Tollner, said Wednesday the team had still not engaged Davis in any new contract talks. With free agency set to begin at 10 p.m. (Arizona time) March 1, it is obvious Davis will be allowed to shop himself around the league.

Given the dearth of offensive tackles on the market, Davis will be the top tackle available in free agency despite play the Cardinals and many scouts have deemed inconsistent.

Some team — possibly San Francisco, which has a lot of cap space and Davis’ former offensive line coach George Warhop, or perhaps one of the two teams in his home state of Texas — will be willing to pay more than the Cardinals will want to offer.

The decision not to tag Davis isn’t a surprise, given the Cards would have to commit a guaranteed salary of more than $11 million to a player they do not feel is worth such a price.

The Cardinals never talked to Davis about a contract extension at any time this season, making their plans fairly clear.

That bothered Davis, especially after the team extended defensive tackle Darnell Dockett and linebacker Gerald Hayes.

The last time the Cardinals used their franchise tag was in 2002 on safety Kwamie Lassiter.

The Cards had been planning to tag wide receiver David Boston in 2003, but there was a last-minute decision to allow Boston to become a free agent.

Boston signed with San Diego, but the choice became a good one when Boston’s career flamed out after a series of injuries and off-field problems.

With the Cardinals making an attempt to re-sign their young core players to extensions before their contracts ran out — such as safety Adrian Wilson, receiver Anquan Boldin and kicker Neil Rackers — the team hasn’t had any franchise tag candidates the last few seasons.

In December, Davis wasn’t thrilled about the idea of being franchised and said he was intrigued with the possibility of being a free agent.

“It’s kind of like the draft all over again,” Davis said.

“In the draft, you are a high pick but you don’t know where you’ll be with 32 possibilities. (With free agency) there are 31 other possibilities besides here.”

The Cardinals’ front office, coaching staff and scouts have been holed up at the team’s Tempe complex this week reviewing the current roster and preparing for next week’s scouting combine.

While coach Ken Whisenhunt has remained appropriately neutral when asked about Davis, the Cards — who seek much more depth on the offensive line — will likely use the money they won’t spend on Davis to chase multiple linemen in free agency in addition to the draft.

That may be difficult, given that top tackle prospect Joe Thomas will probably be drafted before the Cardinals’ fifth overall pick and the vacuum of good tackle free agents. The team does have holdover tackle Oliver Ross, who may regain some credibility under new offensive line coach Russ Grimm, who coached Ross in Pittsburgh. Reggie Wells has also played left tackle.

 

[abomb]

Also, what are the chances Davis changes positions with his new team?

 

[Pariah]

While coach Ken Whisenhunt has remained appropriately neutral when asked about Davis, the Cards — who seek much more depth on the offensive line — will likely use the money they won’t spend on Davis to chase multiple linemen in free agency in addition to the draft.

Good plan. Get rid of a starter, chase backups in FA. Slick, the rest of the NFL won't see that coming.

 

[john h]

Kudos Mr. Whisenhunt! I know a lot of people wont like it but definitely the right move! Let his unmotivated non playing butt underperform elsewhere!

Only time will tell if this was smart move or dumb move. If it was a purely Rod Graves move and Whiz and the OL Coach did not have some input I suspect it will be a dumb move. What is done is done. We have done a lot of strange things over the years and it seems most did not work out. Hope this does work out???????????

 

[Rats]

Sounds like what happened with Jamir Miller. I don't trust the Cards to make the right decision because they never have.

As for David Boston, Frank Sanders and Jake Plummer it took the Cards #1 in 2003 their #2 in 2003 their #1 in 2004 and the #1 in 2006 to replace them. No wonder Whiz is lamenting the lack of depth on the team.

Since letting those losers go the Cards have averaged 5-11 and had the distinction of finishing dead last in points scored and points allowed in 2003 and fired two coaches.

Funny how we've gone from chastising Green for getting rid of Kendall and Shelton to praising Graves for getting rid of LDavis.

What difference does paying some player 10% of the salary cap make when you still have over 80 million left and 46 guys make less than 1 million? I sure hope they plan on bringing in some million dollar+ talent with all that extra money to replace those lower paid guys

LDavis was frustratingly inconsistent but he is far better than any other Tackle on the roster and now FA slots and draft picks that could be used to improve the lack of depth will have to be used to replace him instead.


Garrison Hearst - 49ers
Jamir Miller - Browns
Simeon Rice- Tampa
Tom Knight-Pats,Rams
LJ Shelton - Miami
David Boston-San Diego,Miami,Tampa
Thomas Jones-Chicago
LDavis????

What a legacy.

I do not know how anyone could have put it any better. They have never made the right call and we are 5-11 every year. They should have tagged him and got something for him or kept him for a year with money that will be sitting in Bidwills wallet. Stupid is as stupid does. Thats the Cards for ya.

 

[Scott MS]

Leonard Davis = overpaid
Leonard Davis = makes mistakes
Leonard Davis = the only starting Left OT this team has on it's roster


I see both sides, but this team has nobody to step in and take his spot and now we will be deparate for an OT in free agency and overpay for the next left OT.

 

[Mulli]

Good plan. Get rid of a starter, chase backups in FA. Slick, the rest of the NFL won't see that coming.

Big was sort of mediocre. Doesn't seem unreasonable that the new staff should be able to "coach up" a first or second round pick to play at Big's level.

But what do I know.

 

[Duckjake]

Tom Knight? Are you kidding me? Getting rid of Boston was also a good move.

The point is that every one of those first round selections, for whatever reason, ended up playing for another team.

How talented they were is irrelevant, they were still 1st round guys and the Cards were either stupid to have let them walk or for taking them in the first place or for not providing an atmosphere where they would want to remain in Arizona.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Letting Davis go is stupid, they better have an awesome super secret plan in mind to fill his spot. One .

Heck anyone would play equal to Davis. Put Gorin in. He will do as well if not better.

Also to make your LT the highest paid OL on a team with a left handed QB is INSANE!

 

[BACH]

So, the problem people have with tagging him is that he may sign the tender and we'd be on the hook for 11 mill, yes? True, that is a risk. If he did that, we have more than enough cap room to pay him and still chase after anybody we want in FA. God doesn't have as much cap room as we do. We don't even have to start him; we can still try and find a replacement. It would be a lot of money for a backup, but I think if he signed the tender, we could definitely find a use for him.

That risk, though, is so minute as to be laughable. LD likely doesn't want to stay. We've heard grumblings that he'd like to go back to Texas, and I think both Dallas and Houston would love to have him. If they want to trade for him, they will not have to pay him 11 million a season; you can work out a sign-and-trade for a franchise player, where we get our compensation in the form of draft picks, and the other team gets to sign him to a brand new contract with an extension. I cannot think, for a minute, that if we and a franchised LD went to the Texans and offered him for even an expensive deal and extension, and a 3rd round pick, that it would be refused.

So, are some of you STILL thrilled with this move? Low-risk, high-reward. And if you don't have the balls to take a risk like that, you don't belong in an NFL front office.

You need to re-think that logic, because that's never going to happen.

Your scenario:
Cards franchise LD for $11.4M.
He signs the one year contract.
The Cards approach the Texans and they offer a 3rd rounder for Davis.
Davis accepts a long term deal at market value.

One problem:
What's Big's realistic market value? $6M a year?
Why on Earth would Davis accept a pay cut from a $11.4M to $6M?
He's becoming free agent again next year, so he knows that he can get the same contract AND collect $11.4M while waiting.

 

[john h]

http://www.azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=1551

Tackle to hit market as unrestricted free agent

“When we evaluated Leonard, we certainly see ability and as improvement, especially as last season went on,” said Cardinals head coach Ken Whisenhunt. “But when you look at the situation on the whole and take everything into account, we don’t feel that the investment that would be required to keep him is equal to the performance.

That says it all for me...his performance on the field is not worth the money they would have to pay to keep him. Remember what Hardy used to say, you don't have to pay the big money for offensive linemen if you focus on zone blocking rather than individual, one on one effort.

Performance on the field may not be worth what he is asking but performance is not always the only factor in the price you pay a player. We live in a market of supply and demand. Look at the baseball market this year. Does it make any sense to pay some of these guys $130 million dollars? No but that is what happens when there are few quality players on the market. Barry Zito is probably a number 3 or 4 pitcher so he signs a $127 million dollar contract.

 

[Pariah]

Also to make your LT the highest paid OL on a team with a left handed QB is INSANE!

I may have to put this in my sig: Defenses do not generally switch their pass-rushing DE to a lefty-QB's blind side. They still play against the LT most of the time.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I may have to put this in my sig: Defenses do not generally switch their pass-rushing DE to a lefty-QB's blind side. They still play against the LT most of the time.

LT is highest paid position on the line because teams need to protect the blind side of the QB. This is football basics man. Now our blind side is the right tackle. There arent many left handed qb's. Its kinda rare.

Leinart can see the DE coming from his left. Not his right.

 

[jefftheshark]

This is a very good move. It sends a message to the entire team that underperformance is not rewarded with a huge salary.

And Graves' stature actually goes up, IMHO. This is a tough call that could blow up in his face, but it is great to see the FO take a stand and show that they are willing to take a chance, in order to make the team better.

The Shark