Shelton

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Shane H
You can bet that the Cardinals are making a fair market offer for a starting LT

Really - wasn't there just a piece a couple days ago in the Trib that there was haggling over guaranteed money or signing bonus? Also - to say that you can ever be sure we are giving fair market value - especially to a guy who we tried to screw initially when we drafted him - is going out on a limb here. Besides - we are the Cards - and in order to get the best players - especially our own - we unfortunately need to overspend on them - is that what's going on here? I don't know - but to be sure - if he's not signed, I'm sure words like cancer and locker room distraction can't be far away.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll stop with this right now - because it is premature - but I am worried and unfortunately, for me, Graves hasn't really given me a whole lot of hope that he can get something of this magnitude done yet - although, I hope he can.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Really - wasn't there just a piece a couple days ago in the Trib that there was haggling over guaranteed money or signing bonus? Also - to say that you can ever be sure we are giving fair market value - especially to a guy who we tried to screw initially when we drafted him - is going out on a limb here. Besides - we are the Cards - and in order to get the best players - especially our own - we unfortunately need to overspend on them - is that what's going on here? I don't know - but to be sure - if he's not signed, I'm sure words like cancer and locker room distraction can't be far away.

Your right I could be wrong but with the offer given AC two years ago and with the signing of Emmitt to an inflated contract and overspending to get Dex Jack. Extending Raynoch etc.... It shows me the organization knows what they need to do.

The hang-up over bonus could be the way it is payed out not necessarily amount etc.....or it could just be LJs agents excuse for not signing. LJ mightjust not want to play here at all and saying its over signing bonus makes him look better and the organization worse! Nobody knows thats my whole point.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
can you guys imagine how ugly Monday could be if LJ isn't signed and we lose to the Bengals - it'll be all out war.

Sounds like a formula for the "Perfect Storm".....

 

[Snakester]

Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I did and I spent 15 minutes with Rod Graves yesterday talking about various contract extensions and free agency plans but none of it is for public consumption. And Shelton isn't the only deal in the works either.

I also know who won't be extended and why, But that isn't for public consumption either.

And for the record, neither Kent Somers nor Darren Urban got the info Rod gave me yesterday. I get it because he trusts me not to violate his confidences. The Cards do not negotiate in the papers or in cyberspace. How about just waiting to see what happens?

It's self-defeatist posts like Rats' that assumes incompetence and failure before it happens that disgust me daily.

Skkorp, you are so lucky! What I wouldn't give to be in a conversation like that with Graves.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Plummer signed in December after the comeback against the Saints, so that's why his bonus was prorated out and killed us in regards to the cap for years.

I've never heard of this sort of deadline. If the Cardinals extend Shelton after Monday, that's really stupid IMO. It'd be better than letting him hit free agency, but if they really want him, they should get him signed at a point which would be best for the overall future of the team which would be by Monday. What happens with this is a decent barometer as to how important competing at a high level really is to this management.

If I read it right it says "raise" which is salary and not bonus. That means if Shelton makes 1.2 million this year, and we extend his contract, we can give him 5 million this year in salary and count the raise in salary against THIS year using up a chunk of that 12 million?

As you said Jake was extended just before Xmas, that's why his 15 million bonus was prorated over 5 years and not 4.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
and the excuses start already - next week's gonna be fun!!!! Again - Graves's job has a lot more to do with than just writing checks and negotiating contracts - he has to sell HIMSELF as the man who will turn this thing around - I mean if he can't do it with our own free agents - how the hell is he gonna sell this team to guys not on the club? All of this is premature though - although we saw what happened already with the two guys this team really needed in the offseason.

Also - does it bother any of you that Emmitt Smith is going to be taking up 4 million dollars in cap space next year to sit on the bench when we could sue that money to improve the team?

That's part of the reason Bidwill (and graves) keep screwing this thing up, folks let them off the hook - again and again and again.

There's always some rationalization in defense of the organization, an organization which has has done nothing but bumble around in the dark for the last half a century.

Bottom line: we can offer LJ more money than anyone else in the league - so let's do what it takes to get him signed. I am of the opinion that there is absolutely no excuse to not signing him before monday.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Shane H
Its not an excuse its a fact. If LJ already has in his mind that hes testing FA there nothing you can do to change that.

As far as Emmitt! HELL YES it bothers me! It bothers me even more because knowing this inept franchise and coach they will anoint him the starter next season as well just continuing to make Marcell bitter thus ensuring our long search for a franchise RB was all for not now that we found him!

I beg to differ. There is a whole hell of a lot that the Cards can do to change that -- it's called money, and lots of it.

 

[CardinalChris]

I like Shelton, and I think he likes it here. I think if he leaves it won't be because our offer sucs, it will be because he's ready to move on. Remember, Walkter Jones is a FA next year also, and he's been tagged two years in a row, as is Pace. I wouldn't be surprised to see Shelton tagged if it gets to that.

 

[jon_nyaz]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
One more thing for those too busy bashing to figure it out.

It takes two to make a deal. If LJ doesn't sign by Monday, it will be because he wants to test the free agent market so any post-Monday signing is out of the question.

It's actually quite simple. If LJ wants out, he won't sign.

Shelton is sharp. Whatever he does will have carefully thought out. If we lose him, it will hurt very badly.

I think he's our best player.

Shelton has stated that he wants to stay here in AZ. So I'm not quite ready to buy into your bottom line assessment that if he doesn't sign, it's because he wants out. If he truly does want to stay as he says, and the Cards make him a reasonable offer, then the deal with get done. Of course, we may never know what kind of offer the Cards are making him now, so given that, he may end up testing free agency and then re-signing here later if the Cards up the ante in the off-season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Shane H
If we lose thats one thing. But if we fail to sign LJ it will have no bearing on my feeling towards the team or Graves.

LJ knows that he will be the premier LT in FA this year. He also knows that there will be teams out there willing to pay him very well for his services!

He knows its a chance to try an organization with a historyof success. That might be his deciding factor not JUST MONEY!

Like Skkorp stated, it takes two! If LJ doesnt wanna dance then he wont come to the party. PERIOD! Nothing Graves can offer will change that!

it's graves' job to sell the team as something that's gonna be successful. it's his job to convince lj that his plan is sound. if can't (and he couldn't with colvin or holiday) then he just sucks at his job. fair?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
All the darksiders running around getting bent out of shape, when nothing has happened

exactly. i think the lack of signing of lj or use of the cap space to help our future cap space is part of that "nothing" that is happening. nice of you to notice.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Snakester
Skkorp, you are so lucky! What I wouldn't give to be in a conversation like that with Graves.

i don't think skorp's lucky. if i had that kind of access i might end up doing hard time. i'm not an overly violent man, but graves' responses could drive me to do some things that society might consider unkind . . .

 

[Cheesebeef]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
i don't think skorp's lucky. if i had that kind of access i might end up doing hard time. i'm not an overly violent man, but graves' responses could drive me to do some things that society might consider unkind . . .

you're just having a good old time talking to yourself right now, huh? I agree with the above - I'd probably be banned from the Cardinals games by now - either that or made GM.

 

[SweetD]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
i don't think skorp's lucky. if i had that kind of access i might end up doing hard time. i'm not an overly violent man, but graves' responses could drive me to do some things that society might consider unkind . . .

Or you could actually become educated before you make ridicules accusations that are not true.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by SweetD
Or you could actually become educated before you make ridicules accusations that are not true.

like what? How many times have we heard Graves said he "hoped" something was gonna happen and then see NOTHING happen - history is on our side - and I didn't even see any accusations being made anyways.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
If we lose thats one thing. But if we fail to sign LJ it will have no bearing on my feeling towards the team or Graves.

LJ knows that he will be the premier LT in FA this year. He also knows that there will be teams out there willing to pay him very well for his services!

He knows its a chance to try an organization with a historyof success. That might be his deciding factor not JUST MONEY!

Like Skkorp stated, it takes two! If LJ doesnt wanna dance then he wont come to the party. PERIOD! Nothing Graves can offer will change that!

This is a good post. Very good. If I am Shelton's agent, unless the cards really blow me away with an offer, my client is going to test the market/ LTs are like Cbs. Even mediocre ones (LJ is NOT mediocre in my book...he is better) get paid.

Now, having said that, Graves, if he truly understands how important LJ is to this team...well he can make an offer that knocks socks off and he can even do it in such a way it doesn't cripple the team down the road. This IS one of those make or break moments for a GM. Graves must come through otherwise, the likelihood of having to replace a very important piece of the puzzle will be added to the long list of things that need to be done.

Like Cheesebeef, I don't like the between the lines stuff with Skkorp. Maybe I am reading too much into it but I feel little optimism that LJ won't be hitting the open market.

EDIT: FWIW, I think Shelton's first contract and all the issues with getting it done (remember Graves negotiated it) is going to weigh heavily in his decisions.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by SweetD
Or you could actually become educated before you make ridicules accusations that are not true.

and just what accusation is that? i've not accused anyone of anything other than graves having fielded an atrocious team. and right, the 2-5 record is proving me right in said accusation!

you might want to poo-poo us darksiders, but we've been 100% right. we said we wouldn't get the needed defensive line help in free agency and we didn't. we said we wouldn't sign a veteran wr to help the kiddies and we didn't. we said graves would screw up the draft, and, to my way of thinking, passing on lefty, trading down to just miss the dline we wanted, and snatching bryant and pace, both of whom look like projects, at first round prices, and moving down in the 2nd and losing a 4th rounder to boot seems like a screw up. we said the team wouldn't win more than 5 games, and guess what, that's what they're on pace for right now. hmm, seems like we were much more educated than we're given credit for, doesn't it?

up 'til now i haven't been putting it in the koolaider's face that we were right and they were wrong. but when you just keep lambasting us, well, the dam's broke gang! y'all can blame it on SweetD, 'cuz now you're gonna get it at every turn.

WE ARE RIGHT. YOU ARE WRONG. WE KNOW THIS TEAM BETTER THAN YOU. WE AREN'T PESSIMISTS, WE'RE REALISTS. AND THE TEAM IS PROVING THAT EVERY STEP OF THE FRIGGIN' WAY!

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcomebackatmewhenyouhaveevidencethatactuallysupportsyourinaneargumentsEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[pinnacle]

franchise tag is still hanging out there...The only other player we have who will be an unrestricted free agent and would even be anywhere close to having the franchise tag put on them is barrett..and that would be a longshot and very unlikely (although we did tag kwamie - but corners are alot higher paid than safeties)...

I am getting the impression that players and agents assume the cardinals will not use the franchise tag after last season....

just throwing this option into the mix for LJ....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
and just what accusation is that? i've not accused anyone of anything other than graves having fielded an atrocious team. and right, the 2-5 record is proving me right in said accusation!

you might want to poo-poo us darksiders, but we've been 100% right. we said we wouldn't get the needed defensive line help in free agency and we didn't. we said we wouldn't sign a veteran wr to help the kiddies and we didn't. we said graves would screw up the draft, and, to my way of thinking, passing on lefty, trading down to just miss the dline we wanted, and snatching bryant and pace, both of whom look like projects, at first round prices, and moving down in the 2nd and losing a 4th rounder to boot seems like a screw up. we said the team wouldn't win more than 5 games, and guess what, that's what they're on pace for right now. hmm, seems like we were much more educated than we're given credit for, doesn't it?

up 'til now i haven't been putting it in the koolaider's face that we were right and they were wrong. but when you just keep lambasting us, well, the dam's broke gang! y'all can blame it on SweetD, 'cuz now you're gonna get it at every turn.

WE ARE RIGHT. YOU ARE WRONG. WE KNOW THIS TEAM BETTER THAN YOU. WE AREN'T PESSIMISTS, WE'RE REALISTS. AND THE TEAM IS PROVING THAT EVERY STEP OF THE FRIGGIN' WAY!

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcomebackatmewhenyouhaveevidencethatactuallysupportsyourinaneargumentsEEEEEEEEEE!

don't ban ME because of what Ouchie wrote - I repeat - what Ouchie wrote.

 

[pinnacle]

just an FYI...we did resign thompson...which I thought may not get done..he would draw quite a bit of interest from other teams...last offseason starting, young linebackers did quite well in free agency...

 

[Sandan]

Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Rats
Another example of cap mismangement from this GM and owner. I hate being negative after a week of feel good but the extra one or two players that this money could have gotten us could have us in real playoff contention....

Why is this an example of cap mismangement ?

Which extra players are you refering to ?

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by pinnacle
franchise tag is still hanging out there...The only other player we have who will be an unrestricted free agent and would even be anywhere close to having the franchise tag put on them is barrett..and that would be a longshot and very unlikely (although we did tag kwamie - but corners are alot higher paid than safeties)...

I am getting the impression that players and agents assume the cardinals will not use the franchise tag after last season....

just throwing this option into the mix for LJ....

Good point. It is a tool in their arsenal but when they can do something now without having to resort to the tag (can anyopne remember a player who ever appreciated being tagged?). I would rather a player play here by choice rather than being forced to by the tag.

LJ is the only player right now who is worthy...some may argue he isn't top 5 pay worthy though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by pinnacle
franchise tag is still hanging out there...The only other player we have who will be an unrestricted free agent and would even be anywhere close to having the franchise tag put on them is barrett..and that would be a longshot and very unlikely (although we did tag kwamie - but corners are alot higher paid than safeties)...

I am getting the impression that players and agents assume the cardinals will not use the franchise tag after last season....

just throwing this option into the mix for LJ....

to me, the issue isn't whether or not we get him signed. i understand we've got the tag for that. it's whether or not we get him signed by monday, which would be the smartest thing to do. otherwise, we just lost all that wonderful cap space.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by pinnacle
just an FYI...we did resign thompson...which I thought may not get done..he would draw quite a bit of interest from other teams...last offseason starting, young linebackers did quite well in free agency...

I'm still not sure what the love affair with Ray is - am I glad we resigned him - yes - without a doubt - but most young linebackers who get a lot of press during the offseason are usually those that come from strong programs - and those who make plays - Ray is a solid player, but by no means a playmaker yet (sacks, tackles for loss, interceptions, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, etc, etc.)