Shelton

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by red desert
Skkorp -

You are scaring me. I don't want to lose LJ.

If the Cardinals don't want to lose Shelton, they can francise him! Technically Graves has the last say.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Oran
If the Cardinals don't want to lose Shelton, they can francise him! Technically Graves has the last say.

True. However, they have a golden opportunity to take a HUGE step forward in terms of how this organization is percieved by other free agents while at the same time making money available to go after those folks. This is clearly a win/lose situation.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Apologies to Rats. I'm as uptight as you guys are.

And Stout, I'm not laying blame on Shelton. For the record, whatever he does will be the best thing for him. He's got to take care of #1 first. This contract will be the biggest of his football life.

I too am worried. LJ is our best player and any time negotiations with our good players go to the brink it worries me.

No Apology necessary but thanks Skorp...LJ is what every team wants a steady Left tackle that is always in the lineup and performs and has the confidence of his QB. He has measurables and is indeed our best player. That said he should have been signed to an extension. A fair one but long before now. That is what is the most puzzleing about this org. They try to push the envelope on things that should not be. They should try to push it where it concerns putting fans in the stands. More give aways, more interest generating like in 98 when they were doing Cards Fan fests at the mall. They were great and get the youth excited about the team. I have 3 young boys and they love going to see the Cards but they take abuse from the other kids because they like the home team. I am just waiting for one of them to tell me that they would rather have a Denver or Stl jersey because there tired of defending their hometeam. IF things continue as they have....that is exactly what will happen. From a Diehard...that makes me sad....as well as mad

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by red desert
True. However, they have a golden opportunity to take a HUGE step forward in terms of how this organization is percieved by other free agents while at the same time making money available to go after those folks. This is clearly a win/lose situation.

especially considering the cap and how much money we could save by getting him signed now so that we can IMPROVE the team team next year in FA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Re: Re: Shelton

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I did and I spent 15 minutes with Rod Graves yesterday talking about various contract extensions and free agency plans but none of it is for public consumption. And Shelton isn't the only deal in the works either.

I also know who won't be extended and why, But that isn't for public consumption either.

And for the record, neither Kent Somers nor Darren Urban got the info Rod gave me yesterday. I get it because he trusts me not to violate his confidences. The Cards do not negotiate in the papers or in cyberspace. How about just waiting to see what happens?

It's self-defeatist posts like Rats' that assumes incompetence and failure before it happens that disgust me daily.

the failure is the 2-5 record that has already happened. i blame rat's pre-supposition not one iota. until things change for good, the cards are guilty until proven smart. i'll believe they'll use this cap room when they've done so by monday. otherwise, i'm beleiving they'll screw this one up. that's what history dictates.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Oran
It would seem to do wonders for our team if some of the core guys got new contracts. They might play harder, because they'll have long term stock in this team.

I've been saying that I don't think Shelton will resign, but I hope the Cardinals try their best. You don't want Graves to overpay the guy and then put us in a hole. I'm sure they'll make him a handsome offer, and we can always franchise him.

put us in a hole? how much cap room do we have remaining that could be used to soak up his signing bonus? put most of the overpayment (if necessary) in the damn signing bonus. doesn't take a cap genius to come up with that!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
doesn't take a cap genius to come up with that!

but Graves in merely competent - got to go with what we got. (sorry- I had to take a little dig at ole' Lying Rod, er I meant Lightning Rod - damn, there I went again!)

 

[CardinalChris]

Remember, we can still sign Shelton after Monday. It just affects the cap differently.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Remember, we can still sign Shelton after Monday. It just affects the cap differently.

not "differently," ADVERSELY. if we don't do it by monday we're screwing ourselves yet again.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Remember, we can still sign Shelton after Monday. It just affects the cap differently.

Chris:

That's true. But the issue in play here is that the fans were led to believe that the "plan" for using up the Cardinals' 2003 cap surplus--largest in the league, by a considerable margin--was to spend much of it to extend key players' contracts. Now, we've learned that:

>>If the deal is done by Monday, however, the Cardinals can use a chunk of their $12 (?) million in cap room to absorb any raise they gave Shelton this season. After Monday, the extra money would have to be spread out over the life of any subsequent deal in the form of a signing bonus.<<

In short, it appears that deals done by Monday count against this year's cap, as we were told to expect. Deals done after Monday get spread out over future years, impacting those years' payroll caps.

When it comes to spending down this year's surplus, then, Rod Graves is in the lightning round. And the clock's ticking.

WC

 

[Cheesebeef]

can you guys imagine how ugly Monday could be if LJ isn't signed and we lose to the Bengals - it'll be all out war.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
can you guys imagine how ugly Monday could be if LJ isn't signed and we lose to the Bengals - it'll be all out war.

if these (somewhat likely) things come to pass - get graves a body bag.

 

[DeAnna]

Hmmm.....reading between the lines, my guess is that LJ's gone.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
can you guys imagine how ugly Monday could be if LJ isn't signed and we lose to the Bengals - it'll be all out war.

If we lose thats one thing. But if we fail to sign LJ it will have no bearing on my feeling towards the team or Graves.

LJ knows that he will be the premier LT in FA this year. He also knows that there will be teams out there willing to pay him very well for his services!

He knows its a chance to try an organization with a historyof success. That might be his deciding factor not JUST MONEY!

Like Skkorp stated, it takes two! If LJ doesnt wanna dance then he wont come to the party. PERIOD! Nothing Graves can offer will change that!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Shane H
If we lose thats one thing. But if we fail to sign LJ it will have no bearing on my feeling towards the team or Graves.

LJ knows that he will be the premier LT in FA this year. He also knows that there will be teams out there willing to pay him very well for his services!

He knows its a chance to try an organization with a historyof success. That might be his deciding factor not JUST MONEY!

Like Skkorp stated, it takes two! If LJ doesnt wanna dance then he wont come to the party. PERIOD! Nothing Graves can offer will change that!

and the excuses start already - next week's gonna be fun!!!! Again - Graves's job has a lot more to do with than just writing checks and negotiating contracts - he has to sell HIMSELF as the man who will turn this thing around - I mean if he can't do it with our own free agents - how the hell is he gonna sell this team to guys not on the club? All of this is premature though - although we saw what happened already with the two guys this team really needed in the offseason.

Also - does it bother any of you that Emmitt Smith is going to be taking up 4 million dollars in cap space next year to sit on the bench when we could sue that money to improve the team?

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
and the excuses start already - next week's gonna be fun!!!! Again - Graves's job has a lot more to do with than just writing checks and negotiating contracts - he has to sell HIMSELF as the man who will turn this thing around - I mean if he can't do it with our own free agents - how the hell is he gonna sell this team to guys not on the club? All of this is premature though - although we saw what happened already with the two guys this team really needed in the offseason.

Also - does it bother any of you that Emmitt Smith is going to be taking up 4 million dollars in cap space next year to sit on the bench when we could sue that money to improve the team?

Its not an excuse its a fact. If LJ already has in his mind that hes testing FA there nothing you can do to change that.

As far as Emmitt! HELL YES it bothers me! It bothers me even more because knowing this inept franchise and coach they will anoint him the starter next season as well just continuing to make Marcell bitter thus ensuring our long search for a franchise RB was all for not now that we found him!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Shane H
Its not an excuse its a fact. If LJ already has in his mind that hes testing FA there nothing you can do to change that.

So you're telling me that if we had an established well-tought of GM like a Ron Wolfe or a Tom Donaho (spelling) or someone of that ilk - that LJ wouldn't look at a deal that would make him one of the best paid LT's in the game and say - okay - here is guaranteed money with a guy I KNOW will turn this ship around - you don't think that would have any bearing on his mind?

Maybe that's in his mind because he doesn't believe in Graves - isn't that a possibility - after all - there was an article in the Tribune today where Jeff Blake was talking about how he can see the organization changing and being light years ahead of where the Bengals were years ago and then they went over to LJ who wasn't as impressed - his repsonse was that he will believe there is real progress when this team wins a playoff game - you don't see him all gaga like Blake - and the reason I think is this - LJ is a winner - the guy is a warrior and as of right now - he says there is no reason to talk about progress organizationally speaking - you think he'd be saying the same if we had one of the more reputable GM's or coaches in here fixing the team?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H
Its not an excuse its a fact. If LJ already has in his mind that hes testing FA there nothing you can do to change that.

Exactly. Maybe Shelton doesn't like the Phoenix area, maybe he wants to live closer to his family, maybe he doesn't like the team colors.

If a player doesn't want to play here and has made up their mind, no amount of convincing will keep him here.

I love this. All the darksiders running around getting bent out of shape, when nothing has happened and we don't exactly get the inside scoop. The David Boston situation is making the Cards look better all the time...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Shane H

As far as Emmitt! HELL YES it bothers me! It bothers me even more because knowing this inept franchise and coach they will anoint him the starter next season as well just continuing to make Marcell bitter thus ensuring our long search for a franchise RB was all for not now that we found him!

By the way - if Emmitt is annoited the starter next year, I may seriously think about not following the team until that coaching staff is outta here.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
So you're telling me that if we had an established well-tought of GM like a Ron Wolfe or a Tom Donaho (spelling) or someone of that ilk - that LJ wouldn't look at a deal that would make him one of the best paid LT's in the game and say - okay - here is guaranteed money with a guy I KNOW will turn this ship around - you don't think that would have any bearing on his mind?

Maybe that's in his mind because he doesn't believe in Graves - isn't that a possibility - after all - there was an article in the Tribune today where Jeff Blake was talking about how he can see the organization changing and being light years ahead of where the Bengals were years ago and then they went over to LJ who wasn't as impressed - his repsonse was that he will believe there is real progress when this team wins a playoff game - you don't see him all gaga like Blake - and the reason I think is this - LJ is a winner - the guy is a warrior and as of right now - he says there is no reason to talk about progress organizationally speaking - you think he'd be saying the same if we had one of the more reputable GM's or coaches in here fixing the team?

Where did Shelton say that!?!?!?!?

Quote:

The Cardinals are just 2-5, although, said tackle L.J. Shelton, “I think we are going in the right direction.”

http://www.evtrib.com/index.php?sty=12239

Whoops! I saw it at the end of the article....but he did still say that he thinks we are going in the right direction.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain

If a player doesn't want to play here and has made up their mind, no amount of convincing will keep him here.

That's fine Krang - but at some point you have to ask yourself, why this happens with the Cardinals and how can they act in order to make changes in order to avoid repeating history - God forbid we actually look at the people running show and realize that THEY may be the reason a player doesn't wnat to be here and has made up their mind - I mean if the person doing the convincing sucks - then you're right - no amount will work - at that point you have to look at THAT person and make a change - all of this is premature - but we've been rpoven right too many times this off-season and even into the regular season to say that what we are talking about doesn't have merit.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
So you're telling me that if we had an established well-tought of GM like a Ron Wolfe or a Tom Donaho (spelling) or someone of that ilk - that LJ wouldn't look at a deal that would make him one of the best paid LT's in the game and say - okay - here is guaranteed money with a guy I KNOW will turn this ship around - you don't think that would have any bearing on his mind?

Maybe that's in his mind because he doesn't believe in Graves - isn't that a possibility - after all - there was an article in the Tribune today where Jeff Blake was talking about how he can see the organization changing and being light years ahead of where the Bengals were years ago and then they went over to LJ who wasn't as impressed - his repsonse was that he will believe there is real progress when this team wins a playoff game - you don't see him all gaga like Blake - and the reason I think is this - LJ is a winner - the guy is a warrior and as of right now - he says there is no reason to talk about progress organizationally speaking - you think he'd be saying the same if we had one of the more reputable GM's or coaches in here fixing the team?

No I dont think it would have any bearing IMO. Same reason many players leave winning teams who offer good contracts but still go elsewhere!

There are those players who regardless of whos running the team or the coach just want to play for say there favorite team as a kid(lifelong dream), or want to live in a different area of the country, or just plain and simply doesnt like his teamates, etc......

The bottom line is we dont know all that is going on in the players mind, so to blame it all on Graves really is just plain silly. You can bet that the Cardinals are making a fair market offer for a starting LT they arent that stupid especially knowing how LJ has no problems going to the media like the first negotiation he went through!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Where did Shelton say that!?!?!?!?

Quote:

The Cardinals are just 2-5, although, said tackle L.J. Shelton, “I think we are going in the right direction.”

http://www.evtrib.com/index.php?sty=12239

http://eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=12239

“I just try to do things the way I know,” Lewis said. Graves is following the same blueprint, taking his time to construct what he believes is the right way to run an organization. Blake, with his knowledge of badly run outfits, said he thought Graves is doing a “heck of a job.” Shelton, perhaps a bit more jaded in five seasons with the team, thinks a playoff berth is necessary before proclaiming organizational health."

Today's trib.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
http://eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=12239

“I just try to do things the way I know,” Lewis said. Graves is following the same blueprint, taking his time to construct what he believes is the right way to run an organization. Blake, with his knowledge of badly run outfits, said he thought Graves is doing a “heck of a job.” Shelton, perhaps a bit more jaded in five seasons with the team, thinks a playoff berth is necessary before proclaiming organizational health."

Today's trib.

I know, I noticed it after I posted that.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
By the way - if Emmitt is annoited the starter next year, I may seriously think about not following the team until that coaching staff is outta here.

I would still follow them but it would be close to the last straw for me if that happens and I wouldnt blame you one iota! Im already going to be pissed enough as it is that Emmitt will be put back as the starter this year!