Seriously, What Moves Have We Made Under Whiz That Paid Off?

[NJCardFan]

Piggybacking off of my thread on NE trading for Talib, can someone please point out a move made in Whiz's entire tenure that has been a slam dunk payoff. I honestly can't think of one and this includes draft picks. I mean, draft picks alone:

PP-jury still out on him
Dan Williams-hasn't panned out yet
Beanie Wells-Hasn't been healthy enough to have an opinion on
DRC-gone
Levi Brown-stiff

In fact, of all of his draft picks, only Calias Campbell and Darryl Washington are true studs in the making. Sam Acho is showing promise as is Schofield(see a trend here? any offensive players?). The rest have been mediocre at best. As for his free agent pick ups, who has come in here and made this team better? Anyone? Beuller?

 

[anks106]

Uh, you gave two examples in your own thread with CC and Wash.
Dan Williams has played pretty well, hes been restricted somewhat by injuries and by scheme as well, but when he is on the field the difference is notable. You mention Acho as well, Schofield is showing some signs.

Beanie has had injury issues, but you would have no idea the guy ran for 1000 yards and 10 touchdowns last year based on this board.. people say its a foregone conclusion he won't even be a cardinal next year. I don't get it.

Things aren't working out right now, the offense is pitiful; but this is an overreaction.. right moves have been made as well as wrong ones.

On the plus side, good to see you've still got power.

 

[desertdawg]

My favorite move we did was when we put our hands up in the air in the last couple seconds of that NFC Championship game, sending us to the Superbowl.

I aint Whiz's biggest fan, but when he has QB and some time he can bang with anybody. Him helping out in the Horton aquisition was also nice. An above average pass happy coach that is saddlebagged with Grimm...

Grimm is the only knock I have on Whiz right now, because I can't even begin to look at the other problems until that gets fixed...when it comes down to it the other probs are all intertwined with the O-line fiasco.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think a pretty good move was when the team boarded the plane headed to Tampa for Super Bowl 43.

 

[NJCardFan]

Judging by all the snark here, the answer would be none. Also, I find it funny that you guys keep mentioning going to the Super Bowl. Exactly how many impact players on that team were brought here by Whiz? I'll answer: Breaston and DRC, that's all. Look:

Warner, Fitz, Edge, Chike, Berry, Arrington, Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, Rackers, AW, pretty much 90% of the impact players on that team were here before Whiz got here. Slowly by surely he got rid of most(through attrition or letting go) and look at us now. And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree that if we didn't have Warner or if Whiz had stuck with Leinart, we wouldn't have won 8 games let alone gone to the Super Bowl. Warner made that team what it was. Whiz just rode his coattails.

Oh, for the record, we got extremely lucky and didn't lose power at all. My area was in the eye and missed the high impact winds and such but I appreciate your words though. My state took it hard and a lot of people lost everything.

 

[juza76]

trade up for daryl washington

 

[ajcardfan]

On September 23rd, he was a genius and the toast of the town. We were 4-0, had won 11 of 13 overall (best in the NFL). I'd say from the 7-2 finish of last season, through the 4-0 start of this season, most every move he made worked.

Now, we've lost four straight to be 4-4, and 11-6 since the that point last year, and he's a fricking idiot that has never done anything right.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.


Even if the Cardinals wanted to can him, I don't see anyone jumping out as a clearly better option. Who? Gruden? Cowher? More than likely it will be someone pretty unknown, like Whis was, or a retread like Green.

I guess we could go the inhouse route like we did with McGinnis and put Horton in charge. But, why would we think he could fix the offense any better than Whis could?

It's all dicey. The prudent move is to see how the season finishes. My guess is we'll finish less than .500 and Whisenhunt will either have to make staff changes or quit.

 

[Russ Smith]

How many games did Peterson win for us last season, 3 or 4? He hasn't taken the next step yet and nobody is punting to him this year so that area is restricted but I would certainly say he's paid off.

Put it this way if the Cards announced tomorrow that ANY player on the roster was available in trade(pretend the trade deadline was extended) Peterson would be the first or second player most teams would askfor along with D Wash and Campbell.

 

[ajcardfan]

And, I think it's only fair to point out, that Warner did get a chance to start pre-Whisenhunt. And, that was a miserable failure and NO ONE was sad to see Warner hit the bench and Leinart get the reins. I remember wearing my Warner jersey that season and never heard one positive comment about him. He was a turnover machine pre-Whis, with the worst one being that horrible fumbled handoff inside the red zone that cost us a win over the Rams. Brutal.

Whoever had the idea of the gloves, that was a good one. Warner still fumbled, but it was a lot less.

 

[Shane]

On September 23rd, he was a genius and the toast of the town. We were 4-0, had won 11 of 13 overall (best in the NFL). I'd say from the 7-2 finish of last season, through the 4-0 start of this season, most every move he made worked.

Now, we've lost four straight to be 4-4, and 11-6 since the that point last year, and he's a fricking idiot that has never done anything right.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.


Even if the Cardinals wanted to can him, I don't see anyone jumping out as a clearly better option. Who? Gruden? Cowher? More than likely it will be someone pretty unknown, like Whis was, or a retread like Green.

I guess we could go the inhouse route like we did with McGinnis and put Horton in charge. But, why would we think he could fix the offense any better than Whis could?

It's all dicey. The prudent move is to see how the season finishes. My guess is we'll finish less than .500 and Whisenhunt will either have to make staff changes or quit.

Genious!

 

[HeavyB3]

Uh, you gave two examples in your own thread with CC and Wash.
Dan Williams has played pretty well, hes been restricted somewhat by injuries and by scheme as well, but when he is on the field the difference is notable. You mention Acho as well, Schofield is showing some signs.

Beanie has had injury issues, but you would have no idea the guy ran for 1000 yards and 10 touchdowns last year based on this board.. people say its a foregone conclusion he won't even be a cardinal next year. I don't get it.

Things aren't working out right now, the offense is pitiful; but this is an overreaction.. right moves have been made as well as wrong ones.

On the plus side, good to see you've still got power.

RB's need to be the most durable players in the sport. You just can't waste a roster spot on a guy who can't stay healthy. If you have a decent O-line (which we don't), its not too hard to find a RB that can rush for 1000 yards and 10 touchdowns.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Lol. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Let's admit it, if we were anyone but the Cards with our low expectations, the whole coaching staff except our D coordinator would be working from week to week right now. Successful organizations do not tolerate the miserable records we have had recently and the state we are in now. Only the Cards and Cards fans would be thinking in terms of Whiz and his staff deserving to still be here.

Am I wrong?

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Trades such as Talib are pretty uncommon no matter who the coach, only bellicheck** is able to swing these trades.

Cant forget about andre roberts, kerry rodes, richard marshall was solid, paris lenon, Sherman looks good, LSH was a good late rounder as was david carter...

 

[anks106]

Judging by all the snark here, the answer would be none. Also, I find it funny that you guys keep mentioning going to the Super Bowl. Exactly how many impact players on that team were brought here by Whiz? I'll answer: Breaston and DRC, that's all. Look:

Warner, Fitz, Edge, Chike, Berry, Arrington, Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, Rackers, AW, pretty much 90% of the impact players on that team were here before Whiz got here. Slowly by surely he got rid of most(through attrition or letting go) and look at us now. And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree that if we didn't have Warner or if Whiz had stuck with Leinart, we wouldn't have won 8 games let alone gone to the Super Bowl. Warner made that team what it was. Whiz just rode his coattails.

Oh, for the record, we got extremely lucky and didn't lose power at all. My area was in the eye and missed the high impact winds and such but I appreciate your words though. My state took it hard and a lot of people lost everything.

Wait a second.. we are quoting Chike and Arrington as impact players? Really?

And I know about the storm, I'm from Jersey as well and was lucky enough to get power back today.. its been really rough out here and we didn't get as lucky. I'm just glad I filled up on gas before it hit.. The sight of a mile long line at a gas station is just weird. (Also as a heads up, I'm hearing the best way to get gas is to drive down into PA, you can fillup within 10 minutes of getting to the gas station).

 

[NJCardFan]

And I know about the storm, I'm from Jersey as well and was lucky enough to get power back today.. its been really rough out here and we didn't get as lucky. I'm just glad I filled up on gas before it hit.. The sight of a mile long line at a gas station is just weird. (Also as a heads up, I'm hearing the best way to get gas is to drive down into PA, you can fillup within 10 minutes of getting to the gas station).

Amazing how 3rd world Northern NJ and NY have become. Not poking fun, just stating the obvious. I hope things get back to somewhat normal. That said, we went through the same thing in July but it was only for a few days. Can't imagine going 2 or more weeks without power or being able to gas up.

 

[conraddobler]

On September 23rd, he was a genius and the toast of the town. We were 4-0, had won 11 of 13 overall (best in the NFL). I'd say from the 7-2 finish of last season, through the 4-0 start of this season, most every move he made worked.

Now, we've lost four straight to be 4-4, and 11-6 since the that point last year, and he's a fricking idiot that has never done anything right.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.


Even if the Cardinals wanted to can him, I don't see anyone jumping out as a clearly better option. Who? Gruden? Cowher? More than likely it will be someone pretty unknown, like Whis was, or a retread like Green.

I guess we could go the inhouse route like we did with McGinnis and put Horton in charge. But, why would we think he could fix the offense any better than Whis could?

It's all dicey. The prudent move is to see how the season finishes. My guess is we'll finish less than .500 and Whisenhunt will either have to make staff changes or quit.

This is how I feel.

You could do a lot worse as history has taught us.

The truth is this is the Cardinals we're talking about, as frustrating as all this is, and it is, the truth is it could always be worse, we have worse down.

Could I envision all kinds of neat scenarios that would improve this? Oh heck yeah but not with this organization pulling the trigger. We don't have some deep pocket owner like Mark Cuban running the ship, we have what we have, asking them to make a move is like sending a two year old child into a pack of wolves for your wallet. It's just not worth it.

 

[Duckjake]

Judging by all the snark here, the answer would be none. Also, I find it funny that you guys keep mentioning going to the Super Bowl. Exactly how many impact players on that team were brought here by Whiz? I'll answer: Breaston and DRC, that's all. Look:

Warner, Fitz, Edge, Chike, Berry, Arrington, Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, Rackers, AW, pretty much 90% of the impact players on that team were here before Whiz got here. Slowly by surely he got rid of most(through attrition or letting go) and look at us now. And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree that if we didn't have Warner or if Whiz had stuck with Leinart, we wouldn't have won 8 games let alone gone to the Super Bowl. Warner made that team what it was. Whiz just rode his coattails.

Oh, for the record, we got extremely lucky and didn't lose power at all. My area was in the eye and missed the high impact winds and such but I appreciate your words though. My state took it hard and a lot of people lost everything.

Too true. When posters got nothin' they respond with snide remarks or the tired old "so you know better than the coaches"

The problem has not been the moves to bring in players not panning out but the same problem that has plagued the Cards for the last 5-6 years.* They create holes in the roster and have to use free agent dollars or draft picks to fill them. So even when the replacement turns out to be a really good player the Cards continue with the 2 steps forward 3 steps back because they could have had two good players instead of one. That is why the extensions to DWash and Campbell were so important. A move to stop having to plug leaks and instead build a bigger stronger dam.

As for Whisenhunt I wonder why his teams are so streaky. The SB team wins 5 of 6 and then loses 4 of 5. 2009 start 1-2, win 6 of the next 7 and finish 3-3. 2010 team started 3-2 and then lost 7 games in a row. 2011 1-6 to 7-2. 2012 4-0 to 0-4. What's up with our guys doing this? Do other NFL teams do this?

*Before that we didn't have any good players. So if a guy left it was no big deal.

 

[football karma]

The problem has not been the moves to bring in players not panning out but the same problem that has plagued the Cards for the last 5-6 years.* They create holes in the roster and have to use free agent dollars or draft picks to fill them.

ding ding ding ding ding

sometimes the strategy of letting a guy walk and replacing them in the draft has worked well: Calais and D Wash are just as good, if not better, than S Smith and Dansby (certainly collectively)

sometimes it doesnt though: Rashad Johnson was supposed to be there when Rolle left. Cody Brown was supposed to pick up for Pace / Chike and Bert Berry leaving. He didnt. Doucet and Roberts were picked to replace Boldin and step up when they let Breaston walk. Jury this last offseason was out on those two, so we draft Michael Floyd. So -- a bunch of guys who were good enough to play in a Superbowl have been replaced by players who havent been as good.

The reality is that draft picks have uncertainty to them. By the middle of the first round, you are batting around 50% on if the player will be a contributing, solid starter or better ( this is for the entire NFL).

 

[Mulli]

People act like Whiz is Romeo Crennel. Be careful what you wish for, especially in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

ding ding ding ding ding

sometimes the strategy of letting a guy walk and replacing them in the draft has worked well: Calais and D Wash are just as good, if not better, than S Smith and Dansby (certainly collectively)

sometimes it doesnt though: Rashad Johnson was supposed to be there when Rolle left. Cody Brown was supposed to pick up for Pace / Chike and Bert Berry leaving. He didnt. Doucet and Roberts were picked to replace Boldin and step up when they let Breaston walk. Jury this last offseason was out on those two, so we draft Michael Floyd. So -- a bunch of guys who were good enough to play in a Superbowl have been replaced by players who havent been as good.

The reality is that draft picks have uncertainty to them. By the middle of the first round, you are batting around 50% on if the player will be a contributing, solid starter or better ( this is for the entire NFL).

True. But the bigger issue is that in letting a guy walk you have to use the draft pick to replace him instead of say getting an Offensive Guard that could possibly start and play well for you for 10 years. So instead of just DWash you could have Dansby AND a Guard. *

Instead of just Levi Brown you could have Leonard Davis AND Adrian Peterson. Instead of Kevin Kolb you could have Matt Leinart AND Tavon Wilson AND Rodgers-Cromartie AND Patrick Peterson. Instead of just Michael Floyd you could have Boldin or Breaston AND David DeCastro. (Note: these are just hypotheticals used to make a point but watch people get all worked up over the value of these mythical draft picks )

And this is why I'm glad to see the Cards finally starting to get quality players into their second contract with the team instead of losing them in their prime.

* Is it just me or were the pickings after DWash on the offensive side of the ball very slim in the 2010 draft?

 

[BigRedRage]

Piggybacking off of my thread on NE trading for Talib, can someone please point out a move made in Whiz's entire tenure that has been a slam dunk payoff. I honestly can't think of one and this includes draft picks. I mean, draft picks alone:

PP-jury still out on him
Dan Williams-hasn't panned out yet
Beanie Wells-Hasn't been healthy enough to have an opinion on
DRC-gone
Levi Brown-stiff

In fact, of all of his draft picks, only Calias Campbell and Darryl Washington are true studs in the making. Sam Acho is showing promise as is Schofield(see a trend here? any offensive players?). The rest have been mediocre at best. As for his free agent pick ups, who has come in here and made this team better? Anyone? Beuller?

PP-Solid B/C for now.
Dan Williams-Does a good job in the middle regardless of stats, easy C rating
Beanie Wells-Whiz cant control health and beanie is good when healthy. C rating
DRC-He was good, traded for possible franchise QB. C rating
Levi Brown-Good enough. Started every game for a long time. Marginal blocker, worth of a starting position on most teams, better suited for RT but does ok at LT. A stiff? No. Not the best but plenty servicable. B rating

I see nothing wrong with any of these honestly.

 

[BigRedRage]

trade up for daryl washington

great decision

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think Dan Williams has been near as effective since he lost weight. Medium Dan doesn't seem as good as plugging the middle as Big Dan.

 

[kerouac9]

This thread reads like an argument in favor of Ken Whisenhunt staying on. Whis and the front office have made a lot of good decisions. The problem is that some of the bad decisions have been in critical areas that have remained problematic.

• The trade up for Daryl Washington was a great move.
• IMO in the long run letting Karlos Dansby leave was a good move that worked out. He was a captain of a defensive unit that just gave up when the going got tough. That's not easy for me to say, but the defense of Dansby's era would be giving up 28 points per game during this losing streak.
• Patrick Peterson was a great draft pick.
• Going with Mike Gandy at LT was a great signing, it turned out.
• Bringing in Paris Lenon was a great deal and choice that most everyone here hated at the time.
• Trading for Kerry Rhodes turned out to be a great addition.
• Letting Steve Breaston leave to make room for Andre Roberts seems to be working out. Breaston has less than 70 receptions and 850 yards in a season and a half in Kansas City. Considering the QB situation, I'd rather have Andre Roberts making the minimum than Breaston making four times that.
• Contract extensions for Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett, Larry Fitzgerald, Adrian Wilson (two of them!).
• In a weird way, signing Derek Anderson worked out in that we had a legit starting quarterback instead of Brian St. Pierre, John Skelton, and Max Hall.
• Trading Tim Hightower for a draft pick and Vonnie Holliday has been good in the long run, IMO.

The failures of this regime have been well-documented. But these are tough choices and have been worthwhile moves.