Seattle Seahawks @ Arizona Cardinals Pre Game Thread. 12/01/24-12/07/24

[Cheesebeef]

It's remarkably similar to Kyler arguments here from the few I have read.

except Hurts gets the most of his legs every year... dwarfs Kyler in TDs and has taken the team to the playoffs for 3 years in a row - 2 of them, when his defense was mediocre to bad (last year and 2021).

IMO, To be in Hurts' orbit, Kyler's at least got to start taking this team to the playoffs with regularity, because just based on their production, Hurts ranks at, near or above Kyler's passing output the last three season and outdoes him on the ground as well.

 

[HairZach]

except Hurts gets the most of his legs every year... dwarfs Kyler in TDs and has taken the team to the playoffs for 3 years in a row - 2 of them, when his defense was mediocre to bad (last year and 2021).

IMO, To be in Hurts' orbit, Kyler's at least got to start taking this team to the playoffs with regularity, because just based on their production, Hurts ranks at, near or above Kyler's passing output the last three season and outdoes him on the ground as well.

Hurts is one of those guys who has the stats, but fails the eye test so often, even more often than Kyler. He looks so bad every time AJ Brown isn't on the field. Saquon is saving their offense this year.

 

[ajcardfan]

except Hurts gets the most of his legs every year... dwarfs Kyler in TDs and has taken the team to the playoffs for 3 years in a row - 2 of them, when his defense was mediocre to bad (last year and 2021).

IMO, To be in Hurts' orbit, Kyler's at least got to start taking this team to the playoffs with regularity, because just based on their production, Hurts ranks at, near or above Kyler's passing output the last three season and outdoes him on the ground as well.

I agree Hurts has done more in the NFL and he is deservedly considered a cut above Murray. I was referring to the way Eagles fans argue about him.

 

[JosiahLee]

Wow lol. The Cardinals can have pride, dignity, and fire coming out of every orifice, but it won’t change the fact that this team is NOT a finished product. We all need to relax and let this season play out. Yes, it sucked that we blew a game against a 10-2 team, one that we should have won by 2+ touchdowns. We have improved dramatically, and we will continue to improve. But, they’re just not there yet. Do I think we’ll beat Seattle? I actually do. I don’t normally bet with my heart. And I’ve actually made a good sum of money betting against the Cardinals over the years lol. But, I will bet on them this weekend.

I’m done with moral victories and I hope the rest of us are as well. Losing to a Seattle team that didn’t score an offensive TD and then losing to a Vikings team (yes that’s 10-2 but is totally overrated. They only have 2 wins again teams with a winning record) when up double digits in the second half is not good enough. Can this team win games in Nov & Dec when it matters? We’re going to find out. No more margin for error. I think I have PTSD from 2021 when they completely fell off the tracks in Nov & Dec. I still have faith that JG isn’t going to be Kliff in that regards, but he has to win on Sunday.

 

[Shane]

I’m done with moral victories and I hope the rest of us are as well. Losing to a Seattle team that didn’t score an offensive TD and then losing to a Vikings team (yes that’s 10-2 but is totally overrated. They only have 2 wins again teams with a winning record) when up double digits in the second half is not good enough. Can this team win games in Nov & Dec when it matters? We’re going to find out. No more margin for error. I think I have PTSD from 2021 when they completely fell off the tracks in Nov & Dec. I still have faith that JG isn’t going to be Kliff in that regards, but he has to win on Sunday.

This team isn't built to win now. They are overachieving and were all(except you) happy for it. But still none the less are! Sounds like you need to hang out in the Overreaction thread more.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

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Thanks for posting the injury report, as I'd like to discuss our game Sunday vs. the Seahawks... we have other threads to litigate Kyler as a franchise QB.

Do the Seahawks usually have an injury report looking this banged up? Leonard Williams being out would be huge... He played last week vs the Jets with that injury so I'm not so hopeful

 

[JosiahLee]

This team isn't built to win now. They are overachieving and were all(except you) happy for it. But still none the less are! Sounds like you need to hang out in the Overreaction thread more.

Serious question, at what point are they no longer overachieving?

Texans drafted a young qb and made the playoffs year 1. The same thing is about to happen to Washington this year. Heck the Broncos are about to make the playoffs as well with a rookie qb.

We have MHJ, K1, JC, Try McBride, plenty of weapons to be winning games.

 

[Shane]

Serious question, at what point are they no longer overachieving?

Texans drafted a young qb and made the playoffs year 1. The same thing is about to happen to Washington this year. Heck the Broncos are about to make the playoffs as well with a rookie qb.

We have MHJ, K1, JC, Try McBride, plenty of weapons to be winning games.

The D is clearly overachieving. The O isn't playing up to par with the exception of a few games. Unfortunately, this is a full team sport. Context matters. Also MHJ has been pretty underwhelming overall considering his hype train coming into the league and the success other rookie WRs have had the last 5-6 years.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

The D is clearly overachieving. The O isn't playing up to par with the exception of a few games. Unfortunately, this is a full team sport. Context matters. Also MHJ has been pretty underwhelming overall considering his hype train coming into the league and the success other rookie WRs have had the last 5-6 years.

MHJ and his people acted like he was just going to walk in on day one and be a pro WR because of his dad, etc. Had a whole "method to his madness" type of approach. Might have been better off just coming in like a regular rookie WR and not acting like he was above all the routine NFL stuff that rookies go through.

 

[Stout]

It's remarkably similar to Kyler arguments here from the few I have read.

With soooooo much less pro-Kyler material. Their careers in big games aren't close to comparable.

 

[Stout]

Hurts is one of those guys who has the stats, but fails the eye test so often, even more often than Kyler. He looks so bad every time AJ Brown isn't on the field. Saquon is saving their offense this year.

All evidence to the contrary--see Cheese's post. Unless it's a "Yeah, he outranks Kyler on X, Y, Z stats, playoff experience, etc, but he REALLY doesn't LOOK as good as Kyler" bunk argument. C'mon, man!

 

[BritCard]

on this board only

or maybe is the referendum is "game manager" vs "top 8 kinda QB"

its hard to imagine the level of non-performance necessary over the last 5 games that would lead the FO to conclude that they need to start over at QB.

Oh for sure, it's not a referendum on if he stays or goes. That's locked in.

The referendum is on whether he's a QB you can lean on to get you wins in crucial games or if he's just a middle of the pack game manager with the odd flash of brilliance.

 

[football karma]

Oh for sure, it's not a referendum on if he stays or goes. That's locked in.

The referendum is on whether he's a QB you can lean on to get you wins in crucial games or if he's just a middle of the pack game manager with the odd flash of brilliance.

the only thing I would add is that the current offense doesnt seem like one that is suited to putting the game on the QB / passing game

Maybe its scheme, maybe its personnel. Probably both. Their best personnel groups are 13 and 12.

 

[Stout]

the only thing I would add is that the current offense doesnt seem like one that is suited to putting the game on the QB / passing game

Maybe its scheme, maybe its personnel. Probably both. Their best personnel groups are 13 and 12.

I think it's by design to help Murray.

 

[Stout]

Oh for sure, it's not a referendum on if he stays or goes. That's locked in.

The referendum is on whether he's a QB you can lean on to get you wins in crucial games or if he's just a middle of the pack game manager with the odd flash of brilliance.

Indeed. Despite some on this board laughingly claiming we want rid of him right now, that's not happening and no one is currently calling for that.

 

[football karma]

I think it's by design to help Murray.

maybe. I hope its a result of leaning into their strengths -- o-line, power running, good TE and less emphasis on the weaker aspects: relying on a 2nd year and rookie WR.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

7:42 am (CST) on Thursday. Getting closer...

 

[DVontel]

I think it's by design to help Murray.

Gannon is also a defensive HC & defensive coaches are known to be run-first & conservative.

 

[PACardsFan]

Serious question, at what point are they no longer overachieving?

Texans drafted a young qb and made the playoffs year 1. The same thing is about to happen to Washington this year. Heck the Broncos are about to make the playoffs as well with a rookie qb.

We have MHJ, K1, JC, Try McBride, plenty of weapons to be winning games.

The Texans had the easiest schedule last year in the history of modern sports. And where are they this year? They’ve been pretty underwhelming in a pathetic division. Too many on this board just don’t understand what the Cardinal goal of what “sustained success” means. They took this team down to the studs last year, and the goal was to rebuild it in a manner that will produce long term success. That is a PROCESS that requires NO shortcuts. Yes, it would be great if the Cardinals made the playoffs this year. But, not at the expense of derailing the long term vision that MOJG have. We’re ahead of the plan, but the plan was never to be finished in year 2. This team has plenty of holes still, so there’s still much more drafting & developing before we get to the point where we’re practically suicidal when we lose on the road by a point to a 10-2 team. Cardinals need to stay the course. If we make the playoffs…great! It’ll be a short lived playoff. And if we don’t, we continue the plan.

 

[BritCard]

the only thing I would add is that the current offense doesnt seem like one that is suited to putting the game on the QB / passing game

Maybe its scheme, maybe its personnel. Probably both. Their best personnel groups are 13 and 12.

The offense is what Kyler makes of it. On every call he has multiple options, and the outcome depends on him reading the defense correctly and choosing the best option.

I just don't agree with this idea of QB by proxy, as if Kyler is just there to run what Petzing says and the result is based on Petzing getting the call perfect or not. There are a hundred little things that QB's have to do to make lemonade, and if they don't it can often look like they were just handed lemons. For example, Kyler diagnosing the Blitz from the left and throwing accordingly can make the difference between a 5 yard loss and a 6 yard gain. Kyler recognising that MHJ can get open deep on this play but will need 3 seconds, and adjusting his feet and giving himself the space and time to make it can be the difference between a sack and a 30 yard gain. More often though it's just being accurate on the pass vs not accurate.

I mentioned recently the difference between the Browns with Watson and Winston. The exact same offense, but Winstons getting more than twice the passing yards out of it.

On Sunday Kyler needs to be getting the Winston yards, not the Watson yards, from what he is given. He can leave the pick 6's though.

I said he needs a 300 yard, 2 TD game. I think that's perfectly reasonable numbers.

 

[Chopper0080]

But yea Jalen Hurts is a polarizing QB to people I’ve communicate with. Both NFL & Philly fans.

If it wasn't for the tush push play, I would get it, but that play (which only he seems to be able to execute) in nearly unstoppable.

 

[DVontel]

I just don't agree with this idea of QB by proxy, as if Kyler is just there to run what Petzing says and the result is based on Petzing getting the call perfect or not

Kind of defeats the purpose of having an OC, no?

On Sunday Kyler needs to be getting the Winston yards, not the Watson yards, from what he is given. He can leave the pick 6's though.

I said he needs a 300 yard, 2 TD game. I think that's perfectly reasonable numbers.

This needs more context. Winston yards is getting Winston yards because he is having to play catchup with the opposing offense. Is Jameis passing for 350+ yards if Denver or New Orleans isn’t racking up 30+ offensive points? I don’t think so.

Would a 300+ yard/2 TD performance be cool? Sure, but it also depends on the context of the game. I hope it’s not because Seattle is scoring on our defense at will & we have to play catchup. I just want a clean, efficient game even if it means less yards.

 

[cardncubfan]

Of course it's the cursed black jerseys for biggest game of season smdh

I'll have to break out my black Beanie Wells jersey for this game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This team isn't built to win now. They are overachieving and were all(except you) happy for it. But still none the less are! Sounds like you need to hang out in the Overreaction thread more.

Interestingly many on this board predicted 7-10 wins. So in the .500 range. So “overachieving?” I don’t think so. This is where they likely should be. An update and down .500 team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The D is clearly overachieving. The O isn't playing up to par with the exception of a few games. Unfortunately, this is a full team sport. Context matters. Also MHJ has been pretty underwhelming overall considering his hype train coming into the league and the success other rookie WRs have had the last 5-6 years.

Is the d overachieving or just exceeding our initial paltry expectations. It has two high priced safeties, one of which is a perennial pro bowler. It has high draft picks (2nd and 3rd rounders) at the CB position along with a mid-tier free agent signing. It has a first round pick at olb plus two solid free agent signings at ILB. The front four is really the only no-name segment of the defense. And the team has an accomplished defensive coach as a head coach. Maybe last year it underperformed and as a result just set expectations unrealistically low and this year they’re playing to pedigree.