Schefter (and others) on Von Miller

[Buckybird]

My point is that we don't run a traditional 3-4 defense because of how we play our DE's so why make it an issue.

And that won't change if we get a DC who actually knows how to run the 3-4? Butller, Bowles, Lebeau or whomever else will continue to run the same hybrid 3-4 scheme here that has failed miserably before? To me thats insane...if we want better results change the concepts,the coaches & the players to execute it.

 

[Buckybird]

Von miller is 6'3 243 and Porter is listed on Cards site as 6'3 248. Five pounds is five pounds, but they are basically the same size.8

And Porter seems to always be a liabilty in the run game. Did you see Joey get eaten alive in our run game this year?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Von miller is 6'3 243 and Porter is listed on Cards site as 6'3 248. Five pounds is five pounds, but they are basically the same size.8

Meh he was 237 at the Senior Bowl weigh in.

He's not stout against the run, watch any film of him play. You either run right at him with a big tackle and blow him off the ball, or you run plays designed to get him to run himself out of the play. Either way he's not a great run defender.

Would you rather have a guy that gets 10 sacks, but gets blown up in the running game all the time or would you rather have a guy that gets 8 sacks but could hold his ground in the run game? IMO Richard Quinn will be the 8 sacks and strong against the run while Miller will get run over.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not to be glib, but at #5 in the entire draft, I would rather have a guy who has shown that he can play the position, can get 10 sacks, and might be a liability against the run over a guy who has never shown the he can play the position, can get 8 sacks, and might be decent against the run.

Key part in all that is for all of his faults, Von Miller has actually shown that he can play the position that we would be drafting him for, while Robert Quinn has not.

(for the record, Miller's size and Quinn's inexperience are both reasons why I want Patrick Peterson)

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Miller is not going to play his whole career at 240. He'll likely be to about 250 in year 2. Would everyone be happy if he was 6'3 250 right now? He's going to get naturally bigger, stronger, and thicker with age. I don't see how people can look at the impact Clay Matthews has had and not like Miller.
He are Clay Mathhews pre-draft measurables(all from the combine):
6'3 1/8,240 lbs.
40 yrd- 4.62(from pro day), 10 yard- 1.58, 20 yard, 2.68
shuttle-4.18
3 cone- 6.9
vertical- 35.5
broad- 10 ft. 1 in.
bench 23 reps

I'll bet Miller's numbers will be very similar.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not to be glib, but at #5 in the entire draft, I would rather have a guy who has shown that he can play the position, can get 10 sacks, and might be a liability against the run over a guy who has never shown the he can play the position, can get 8 sacks, and might be decent against the run.

Key part in all that is for all of his faults, Von Miller has actually shown that he can play the position that we would be drafting him for, while Robert Quinn has not.

(for the record, Miller's size and Quinn's inexperience are both reasons why I want Patrick Peterson)

PSSSSST Houston has played the position, which is the other guy I'm advocating. Quinn will likely be gone before we pick.

Von Miller has also shown he's slow and gets to the QB through a speed rush and rarely has any success at all with a bullrush or inside move, something both Houston and Quinn have had lots of success with.

IMO it's folly to draft a CB in the top ten now. A good pass rush is much more important than good secondary players. Get the pass rushers then plug corners in as needed.

 

[Buckybird]

IMO it's folly to draft a CB in the top ten now. A good pass rush is much more important than good secondary players. Get the pass rushers then plug corners in as needed.

The Cards have been ignoring edge rushers for years & one of these days they will get it...hopefully.

 

[Chopper0080]

PSSSSST Houston has played the position, which is the other guy I'm advocating. Quinn will likely be gone before we pick.

Von Miller has also shown he's slow and gets to the QB through a speed rush and rarely has any success at all with a bullrush or inside move, something both Houston and Quinn have had lots of success with.

IMO it's folly to draft a CB in the top ten now. A good pass rush is much more important than good secondary players. Get the pass rushers then plug corners in as needed.

A quick post on pass rushing moves analysis on Houston

"His greatest strength is his explosive burst upfield. Varies his speed off the edge, showing the speed to cross the pass blocker's face and beat him around the corner, as well as the quick feet and balance to fake outside and cut back inside. Learning to use his hands, but is not as developed in this area as you might expect, considering his time as a defensive end. Relies on his burst to beat blockers, and lacks a repertoire of rush moves. A bit of a one-trick pony. Too often stymied when his speed off the edge is contained."

#

The second bolded part is just pure philosophy. While a 3-4 defense like the Steelers supports this, the 3-4 defenses like the Jets, Patriots, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Browns directly discount it. I would like to think that they are more dependent on each other than ever before, and top talent at either position is at a premium. Especially when you have a chance for a fast, tall and physical corner like Patrick Peterson who can also contribute in both return games.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The second bolded part is just pure philosophy. While a 3-4 defense like the Steelers supports this, the 3-4 defenses like the Jets, Patriots, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Browns directly discount it. I would like to think that they are more dependent on each other than ever before, and top talent at either position is at a premium. Especially when you have a chance for a fast, tall and physical corner like Patrick Peterson who can also contribute in both return games.

One of my bold predictions of this draft:

The Cardinals WILL NOT draft Patrick Peterson. The Cardinals take a Best Player Available at a Position of Need Approach to drafting like most teams, and we don't need a CB.

Additionally most teams won't use Peterson as a return man. If I'm going to pay Peterson a boatload of money to be a corner, I'm not going to risk him getting hurt as a returner.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cards have been ignoring edge rushers for years & one of these days they will get it...hopefully.

This I agree with, though I think that in the immediate future Schofield will be a bigger contributor than most players that we might draft. He was really moving up the board last year before that injury, and if recovered, he could be a real surprise. As of now, I like Brooks Reed for the size and tenacity that he shows. He would allow us to go big pairing him with Haggens or fast with Schodfield. He could also put his hand down in nickel.

As for Houston, if we could trade back I might gamble, but substance abuse violations scare me. I see what various drugs can do to young men every day, and I see how easy it is for a young person to get so wrapped up in that junk that they can't let go. Not saying that 1 violation means he has a drug problem, but it makes me worry when investing a high draft picks and millions of dollars into that player.

 

[Chopper0080]

One of my bold predictions of this draft:

The Cardinals WILL NOT draft Patrick Peterson. The Cardinals take a Best Player Available at a Position of Need Approach to drafting like most teams, and we don't need a CB.

Additionally most teams won't use Peterson as a return man. If I'm going to pay Peterson a boatload of money to be a corner, I'm not going to risk him getting hurt as a returner.

How can you say that CB is not a need when Toler was benched for Mike Adams mid season? How can you say CB is not a need when DRC doesn't play the run, and has regressed from 2009?

The Cowboys drafted a future number 1 receiver last year who excelled at returning punts, and look what it did for that return game. Do I think that Patrick Peterson will be returning kicks in 3 years? No. Do I think that he can make an immediate impact for the Cardinals returning punts next year while he adjusts to the NFL at CB? Hell yes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

How can you say that CB is not a need when Toler was benched for Mike Adams mid season? How can you say CB is not a need when DRC doesn't play the run, and has regressed from 2009?

Toler was injured, not benched.

The Cowboys drafted a future number 1 receiver last year who excelled at returning punts, and look what it did for that return game. Do I think that Patrick Peterson will be returning kicks in 3 years? No. Do I think that he can make an immediate impact for the Cardinals returning punts next year while he adjusts to the NFL at CB? Hell yes.

We have a good kick returner, his name is Stephens-Howling.

Sure we need a punt returner, but that could be addressed later in the draft, not in the top 5. Could you tell me how many of the top return men were drafted in the top 5?

 

[ajcardfan]

Sure we need a punt returner, but that could be addressed later in the draft, not in the top 5. Could you tell me how many of the top return men were drafted in the top 5?

Deion Sanders

 

[Krangodnzr]

Deion Sanders

Reaching way back for that one.

And other than in his first few seasons, his teams rarely had him back returning punts/kicks. It's just too risky to use a top corner for that.

 

[Duckjake]

This I agree with, though I think that in the immediate future Schofield will be a bigger contributor than most players that we might draft. He was really moving up the board last year before that injury, and if recovered, he could be a real surprise. As of now, I like Brooks Reed for the size and tenacity that he shows. He would allow us to go big pairing him with Haggens or fast with Schodfield. He could also put his hand down in nickel.

As for Houston, if we could trade back I might gamble, but substance abuse violations scare me. I see what various drugs can do to young men every day, and I see how easy it is for a young person to get so wrapped up in that junk that they can't let go. Not saying that 1 violation means he has a drug problem, but it makes me worry when investing a high draft picks and millions of dollars into that player.

This is why I was originally touting guys like Acho and Beal. Not to replace Porter but to hold down the other side replacing the 34 year old Haggans. Big guys like the Steelers have opposite Harrison in the 6'2" 265lb Woodley. Add them to Davis, 6'2" 257, and we have our big SOLBs.

 

[ARodg]

Toler was injured, not benched.



We have a good kick returner, his name is Stephens-Howling.

Sure we need a punt returner, but that could be addressed later in the draft, not in the top 5. Could you tell me how many of the top return men were drafted in the top 5?

Packers use Tramon Williams at Corner which is double dumb because he sucks at it, and is a probowler. He's probably more valuable than a #5 pick. Just a thought.