Rebuilding or, Retooling or,------

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NOW THE DEFENSE:

Clearly, this side of the ball can come and go, (and has so far this year). Perhaps, no other group on this team has had a harder time trying to assymilate their new players into what is needed on the field, and new players on this unit are many indeed-----at least new to us.

The brightest spot has been the play of Kerry Rhodes, who seems to have found a very comfortable home here in the desert. Hollywood aside, he has been everything that we had hoped he would be and then some, in replacing the freelancing (Antron Rolle) as the center fielder for our defense. He has accepted A-dub's challenge to work hard, and the two of them have become a force in our secondary. In fact, they just might become one of the best in the league.

Probably the single most missing part of the defense has been the D-line play. Docket for sure, (and CAmpbell to an extent), have been double teamed far too much to be effective. I still say that much of that is because Whiz is still starting Bryan Robinson at the nose. I think that was evident to some extent when Branch replaced Campbell in the lineup. His low center of gravity, (compared to Campbell) was a much better fit at DE, and then when Williams and Watson got into the game instead of Robinson, we finally stopped their run, and they went away from it.

I love Whiz and what he has done to change the culture of this team. I just don't see his love for BA at the nose any more than I like DA at QB. Both are supposed to be the QB of their unit, (at least the one that the unit is built around), and neither is able to do the job.

The upside of the entire defense is that they took it upon themselves to get out of their funk. I liked the no talk, (let your play speak for you), attitude they displayed during the preparation week for the Saints. DD and A-dub led this group, and they had them ready for the Saints.

Then something wonderful happened. Max got a couple of completions under his belt, and began to move the offense. They didn't score, but they did use some clock and give the Defense a rest. They began having some fun, and they back-slapped the D when it came off the field at one point. Suddenly they were together, for the first time in a long time. Max is contagious, and when the D saw the O-line having fun, they stepped up their game. Yes, they gave up yards, but they held the score down. Then the stopped giving up yards too. Then they began to take the ball away from Brees and the Saints. This was the best thing that happened to this team so far this year. Everyone began having fun, Offense, Defense, and ST's. That was a long, long tme coming.

Our corners became terrors on the field, and stalked the WR's of the Saints. They each took balls from them, with DRC taking one to the house. Even Rhodes took another one to the house. Toler was a tackling machine, matched almost tackle for tackle by Money Mike Adams who became downright viscous. The TD saving tackle he made on the 10 yard line was text-book, especially in light of the fact that he gave away more than 50 lbs to the ball carrier.

Other players began to contribute, Washington, Porter, (Paris Lenon was solid ALL DAY). This was by far, the best defensive effort this year, and it came not against the Rams, but the Saints, the team that beat us mercilessly in the playoffs and went on to win the SB. We gave them, some of what the Falcons had given us, a sound whuppin'.

The bottom line is that this team, (the one who showed up to stomp the Saints), played very hard, and had a lot of fun. I don't believe the fun part would have happened without Max, and because of that, I believe there is a lot more fun to come. So does Whiz. Havent you heard him saying that we can become a VERY good team. I believe him.

We get Breaston and Doucet back this next week. We also get Gerald Hayes, and while he is suspect because of his back problems, he should be a good fit in the middle on almost certain running plays. When healthy, he is a force in the middle, and we could sure use one there. Let's not forget that in a couple more weeks, we could get a rush linebacker from off the PUP. If that happens, and Hayes is healthy, then I believe that we will be able to produce a stronger defense than last year. Better yet, if Max continues to be Max, our players will be having fun again, and when that happens, we can play with the very best.

I know we are thin on D, but we are getting deeper. Don't forget that Rashod Johnson is making progress, and we may yet get help from McBride, and Abdulah. I am really looking forward to what could happen after this bye week. I hope this has given us something to talk about, and to look forward to in the meantime, so we can get through this period easier. I am sooooooooo ready for the Seahags, even though we are travelling to the Great Pacific North West. They will play us tough there, they always do. I like what we can bring to that table though, and I believe we can do this thing. GO CARDS !!!!!!!!!
 
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Max played the entire 2nd half the week before.

I just don't see how an offensive line played well when the team was held to 3 FGs and almost blew a TD after getting the ball on the opponents two yard line and averaged 1.7 yards per carry after having had decent success running the football earlier in the season.

True, but Max didn't start, nor did he get any reps with the starters. Judge him on his start, not on a game that was lost before he came in.
 

THESMEL

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disagree

I respect your opinion but disagree
I know we have a desperate coach making desperate decisions on a desperate team.
Max Hall is nobody's first choice at QB in the NFL. folks can spin it like they want, but He is thrown into a desperate situation earlier than any other UFA QB in history and big silly's cheer what a great thing it is for him, the team, the coach, the team the state?

Spin it off KW cause he was the lone exception in the history of earth and he just retired from the Cardinals. Everything Whiz blamed on Matt Leinart is still alive and well in Arizona without Matt Leinart.

I challenge anybody to go back and see Matt leinarts performance as a pro, His completion streaks on a bad 06 team where Kurt was benched after 1-4. Matts completion streaks this preseason with UFA WR's, bad oline performance, no running game under constant blitz.

DA never came close to having a completion streak under the best of times with the browns and made it to the pro bowl. I've went over the 2500 yards as a rookie in 11 games, projecting to over 4000 for 16 games ect. ect. best college career I ever witnessed don't count to numbskulls.

If we win this year it will be in spite of Max not because of Max. and i enjoy watching him get killed out there in a panic, whats up with that?

Wins covered up alot up stench these last 4 years and I've talked about it in depth because its honest, but very unpopular, The Way Whiz treated Edge was awful, continues with The Bean. Matt was put in the worse position possible to succeeed an spun like he failed, He out performed all QB's in the nFL this preseason, " lets see how he responds to adversity is a joke" manufatured adversity by the HC is BS.

Dansby, Rolle and Q couldn't wait to get out of here for less or the same money. Kurt retired, Matt is relieved that He gets to play for a coach and a staff that don't poke him with sticks on purpose every chance the can.

Deuce, Lyle, Breaston, Patrick were handled with dis respect. Deuce never did anything wrong and kept his mouth shut, except eating, and He was treated like the anti christ. Just saying players are not ready to flock here to play for the cardinals, unless their very old Steelers past their prime, or washed up elsewher, See Rhodes, Bridges and Lenon.

Lets not even talk Everson Griffin or Andre Roberts, Jets picking up Cody Brown and Houston swooping up Matt Leinart in less than a day, Whiz destroy stars and embrace 2nd tier players or UFA as Gods on the grid iron. I'm stupider for listening.

So I may be unpopular but I've said it all along, because I love the Cardinals, coaches and players come and go but fans and lil Billy Bidwill are Cardinals till death do us part.

You can cut my tounge, burn my eyes and push me with the blame, but I will always tell my truth, when I don't feel the same.

I still think Matt is a top 10 QB in this system with these players, but WE have a dysfunctional offense and a fools hope that we will come together as a team by the playoffs. This culture from a players perspective sucks, they don't even want rumors of coming to Arizona in their prime, to die in an elephant graveyard.

Whis has the contract and complete power, and his 4 coordinators dissapeared, cause He'll take them out too! Graves Too!



-----whatever you want to call it, this team is hugely changed since we played the Saints in the Divisionsal series in the playoffs last year. While our record to date, may not show it, I am thoroughly convinced that we are a far better team than that one.

QUARTERBACK:

It was unfortunate that we took some backward steps during this change,-----naming DA as a starter was one that I would have been happy to do without. While Whiz has now regelated DA to the bench, and has seen how Max Hall has won the confidence and the trust of his team-mates, I believe that we are ahead of where we would have been at QB, even if we had kept Leinart as a starter at this point in the season.

Max is a tenacious, gritty, hard-working, local talent, who has not only sold his team-mates what he is selling, but has sold the Cardinals Fans as well. He appears to be smart, and willing, not only to learn, but (painfully) to give up his body, a trait that, while admired by this team-mates, will quickly change his status as a functioning person unless he curbs it.

We have, at least for a time, gained a new and vibrant starting QB. Hopefully, that will turn out to be the beginnings of our QBOF, though there will always be those who believe he is too small, too weak-armed, and too lacking in experience to be that person. I believe that Max Hall, (at least for now), is the single most needed ingredient in this mix that is the 2010 Arizona Cardinals. He is beyond gutsy, and has proven to be a true leader who commands the respect and loyalty of his team-mates.

I hope we see much more of him at QB this year, and for more to come.
 
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Duckjake

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True, but Max didn't start, nor did he get any reps with the starters. Judge him on his start, not on a game that was lost before he came in.

I'm not judging him at all. I'm judging the offensive line play.
 

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Forget it, Duck. Reality isn't welcome on this thread. It's Koolaidtown.

why shouldn't it be? Here's the reality... we had a HORRFIC off-season, no QB, a really tough opening schedule, a rash of injuries and somehow at the bye... we're 3-2 and leading the division. Why not look at the glass as half-full. I don't think this team can get any worse and the schedule definitely lightens up. Are the BIG problems on this team? Hell yes. But the reality is this team COULD very well get better and in a season with this much turnover, being competitive and possibly winning the division (even a division as pathetic as ours) should be something positive that we can enjoy... or enjoy while we can anyway.
 

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why shouldn't it be? Here's the reality... we had a HORRFIC off-season, no QB, a really tough opening schedule, a rash of injuries and somehow at the bye... we're 3-2 and leading the division. Why not look at the glass as half-full. I don't think this team can get any worse and the schedule definitely lightens up. Are the BIG problems on this team? Hell yes. But the reality is this team COULD very well get better and in a season with this much turnover, being competitive and possibly winning the division (even a division as pathetic as ours) should be something positive that we can enjoy... or enjoy while we can anyway.

+1

Steve
 

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why shouldn't it be? Here's the reality... we had a HORRFIC off-season, no QB, a really tough opening schedule, a rash of injuries and somehow at the bye... we're 3-2 and leading the division. Why not look at the glass as half-full. I don't think this team can get any worse and the schedule definitely lightens up. Are the BIG problems on this team? Hell yes. But the reality is this team COULD very well get better and in a season with this much turnover, being competitive and possibly winning the division (even a division as pathetic as ours) should be something positive that we can enjoy... or enjoy while we can anyway.


You have to look at this situation as a glass half-full scenario... As you pointed out, we certainly have issues in need of fixing. But, aside from the Ravens, Steelers and Jets, most NFL teams are no different. They all possess their own share of holes and weaknesses...

I'll go back to a point I've been making since week 1. Our season will be made or broken during a stretch that begins in week 10. Week 10 we host the Seahags (W). We then go on the road to KC in week 11 (toss-up). We then host the 9ers on Monday night in week 12 (W). Next, week 13 we play host to the Rams (W). Week 14 we are again home as we host the Broncos (W). And finally, in week 15 we travel to Carolina to play the Panthers (W).

We're already at 3 wins. Coming out of the Bye in week 7 we travel to Seattle... tough place to play, but again, we'll be coming off a bye and a great win against the Saints. I can see us grabbing that W. Week 8 we host the Bucs. They are a very solid team for sure. But, we luck out in playing them in our house! Isn't too big of a stretch to see us grab that W.

Who knows... Hall may flame out or get hurt and we're stuck with DA again. Or, Hall does what he did against the Saints. Didn't kill us. Improved as the game went along. And lead the team to a W. I just think we have a very solid shot at getting to 8 wins. And this season, in the NFC Worst, 8 wins will get ya the Division Title. The 3rd in a row for our Cards!!! ;)
 

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why shouldn't it be? Here's the reality... we had a HORRFIC off-season, no QB, a really tough opening schedule, a rash of injuries and somehow at the bye... we're 3-2 and leading the division. Why not look at the glass as half-full. I don't think this team can get any worse and the schedule definitely lightens up. Are the BIG problems on this team? Hell yes. But the reality is this team COULD very well get better and in a season with this much turnover, being competitive and possibly winning the division (even a division as pathetic as ours) should be something positive that we can enjoy... or enjoy while we can anyway.

I agree but there is a big difference in what you are saying and contending in effect that the poor play of previous weeks never happened. Which would include imo saying that the offensive line had as good a game Sunday as in any game in 2009.
 

AzStevenCal

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I agree but there is a big difference in what you are saying and contending in effect that the poor play of previous weeks never happened. Which would include imo saying that the offensive line had as good a game Sunday as in any game in 2009.

I'm a Cards fan. With that comes the ability to erase from my memory games such as you're referring to. Still, I agree with you. We're not on the verge of being a great team, we're hoping to get lucky and win a really bad division. I don't know if the motto "yes we suck, but we suck less than the Rams, 49ers and Seahawks" will ever catch on but I can live with it.

Steve
 

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I'm a Cards fan. With that comes the ability to erase from my memory games such as you're referring to. Still, I agree with you. We're not on the verge of being a great team, we're hoping to get lucky and win a really bad division. I don't know if the motto "yes we suck, but we suck less than the Rams, 49ers and Seahawks" will ever catch on but I can live with it.

Steve

me too, especially this year. I would even REVEL in the complaints we're gonna hear when we're 8-8 hosting a 10-6 (or better) team in the Wild Card round and beating them... AGAIN.
 

Duckjake

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me too, especially this year. I would even REVEL in the complaints we're gonna hear when we're 8-8 hosting a 10-6 (or better) team in the Wild Card round and beating them... AGAIN.

San Diego 23 Indianapolis 17 here we come!
 

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why shouldn't it be? Here's the reality... we had a HORRFIC off-season, no QB, a really tough opening schedule, a rash of injuries and somehow at the bye... we're 3-2 and leading the division.

I don't mind if it's koolaid town here. I was going to stop posting on this thread and let everyone have their fun. I was letting DJ know that that'd be fine. But, FWIW, I still believe that we don't have a QB, our "horrific" opening schedule was against teams that are a combined 13-12 (terrifying!), and the most talented aspect of our offense--the running game--was submarined by the quarterback change.

Why not look at the glass as half-full. I don't think this team can get any worse and the schedule definitely lightens up. Are the BIG problems on this team? Hell yes. But the reality is this team COULD very well get better and in a season with this much turnover, being competitive and possibly winning the division (even a division as pathetic as ours) should be something positive that we can enjoy... or enjoy while we can anyway.

Have you looked at our schedule the next 4 games? Explain to me the way this lightens up:

@ SEA (2-2) - Taking a rookie quarterback into the hardest stadium in the NFL to win on the road.
v. TB (3-1) - I have no idea what to make of this team. None at all, but they're winning games and they're winning on the road.
@ MIN (1-3) - Maybe the second-hardest stadium to win in on the road, against a team that's desperate to stay relevant. Oh, and Randy Moss will be there.
v. Sea (2-2). I actually think this is a winnable game because I don't think that any other NFC West team can win a road game.

I expect the team to improve. I'm excited about getting healthy at WR and getting reinforcements at OLB and ILB. I'm excited that Max Hall might throw a touchdown somewhere between his 75th passing attempt and his 6th INT. I think the defense will improve and the offense can't get much worse than what we saw last week.

But I also see what's on the horizon. This isn't a rebuilding year. We're going to see as much, if not more, turnover next offseason as we saw in the last one. (Maybe) Lutui and (maybe) Faneca gone (maybe Sendlein, too). Steve Breaston (probably) gone. One or both of Haggans and Porter gone. One or both of Watson and Branch gone. (Hopefully) Bryan Robinson gone. Ben Patrick (maybe) gone. So if you believe that Rod Graves can convince a majority of these players to stay here (and there's not a lockout), then we might be rebuilding.

But if you expect us to lose a lot of these guys because we're frozen at the prospect of Larry Fitzgerald's contract, then this isn't a rebuilding season. It's year one of a two-year deconstruction of the roster with little to build on from the last three drafts.

I'm enjoying the ride while it's here; there's no doubt about it. If we can get C- play from Max Hall this season (and Sunday was a D-) then we can win the division if the defense can at least show up at home and Max Hall can beat anyone deep off play action. I'll be right there with you if we can enter the postseason tournament, and I think we could win a home playoff game.

But I'm not going to pretend that this year's team, which has been fortunate to be 3-2 and would be lucky to win 9 games, is better in any way than last year's team, which was Catfish's original thesis here.
 

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I don't mind if it's koolaid town here. I was going to stop posting on this thread and let everyone have their fun. I was letting DJ know that that'd be fine. But, FWIW, I still believe that we don't have a QB, our "horrific" opening schedule was against teams that are a combined 13-12 (terrifying!),

in this league, if you're facing a schedule with a record above .500 with 3 of 5 games on the road, that's a tough opening schedule no matter how you cut it.

Have you looked at our schedule the next 4 games? Explain to me the way this lightens up:

@ SEA (2-2) - Taking a rookie quarterback into the hardest stadium in the NFL to win on the road.
v. TB (3-1) - I have no idea what to make of this team. None at all, but they're winning games and they're winning on the road.
@ MIN (1-3) - Maybe the second-hardest stadium to win in on the road, against a team that's desperate to stay relevant. Oh, and Randy Moss will be there.
v. Sea (2-2). I actually think this is a winnable game because I don't think that any other NFC West team can win a road game.

I'm just looking at more home games than away games... the next four look like 2-2 to me (we'll split with Seattle... I have no delusions that we'll beat them there, but we'll win at home, probably in just as ugly a game as our other wins have been) and I think a home win against TB is in the bag. Call me crazy, but I ain't buying what TB is selling right now.

I'm also looking at a stretch of three straight home games against San Fran, Denver and the Rams... we get two of those IMO and all of a sudden, with four weeks left to go, we're sitting somehow at 7 wins. We probably squeak one more out along the way and presto... division title.

And to be honest, as to next year... with this franchise, I only care about the now. I've learned that over the years, especially with a FO that I still don't trust. Looking ahead to the future for me is a waste of time. I understand why others do it. I use to be right with them, but it's just not fun for me to think that way.
 

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in this league, if you're facing a schedule with a record above .500 with 3 of 5 games on the road, that's a tough opening schedule no matter how you cut it.

I'm just looking at more home games than away games... the next four look like 2-2 to me (we'll split with Seattle... I have no delusions that we'll beat them there, but we'll win at home, probably in just as ugly a game as our other wins have been) and I think a home win against TB is in the bag. Call me crazy, but I ain't buying what TB is selling right now.

I'm also looking at a stretch of three straight home games against San Fran, Denver and the Rams... we get two of those IMO and all of a sudden, with four weeks left to go, we're sitting somehow at 7 wins. We probably squeak one more out along the way and presto... division title.

And to be honest, as to next year... with this franchise, I only care about the now. I've learned that over the years, especially with a FO that I still don't trust. Looking ahead to the future for me is a waste of time. I understand why others do it. I use to be right with them, but it's just not fun for me to think that way.

No, I'm with you. I think we'll finish 8-8 (which was my preseason prediction) and maybe make the playoffs on tiebreakers (Seattle remains my tentative favorite, but I don't know how much better they're going to get over the season--we'll have to see how Lynch plays for them). I like the way the schedule breaks down, but it's not like we're entering an easy stretch through the bye week.

A key is Tampa Bay. The Bengals are a weird team wherever they play. As bad as Carson Palmer is right now, I don't know if he's much worse than Max Hall, but their running game is really good--much better than ours with #6 under center. If we can go 2-2 in this next stretch, we'll be in contention all season. All you have to do is win one of quarter of the season and tie the rest. This team hasn't lost two games in a row in 9 consecutive chances.

If we can beat Tampa at home and win another road game, it'll be difficult to wrestle the division from our grasp. But I think those are two big "ifs".
 

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You have to look at this situation as a glass half-full scenario... As you pointed out, we certainly have issues in need of fixing. But, aside from the Ravens, Steelers and Jets, most NFL teams are no different. They all possess their own share of holes and weaknesses...

I'll go back to a point I've been making since week 1. Our season will be made or broken during a stretch that begins in week 10. Week 10 we host the Seahags (W). We then go on the road to KC in week 11 (toss-up). We then host the 9ers on Monday night in week 12 (W). Next, week 13 we play host to the Rams (W). Week 14 we are again home as we host the Broncos (W). And finally, in week 15 we travel to Carolina to play the Panthers (W).

We're already at 3 wins. Coming out of the Bye in week 7 we travel to Seattle... tough place to play, but again, we'll be coming off a bye and a great win against the Saints. I can see us grabbing that W. Week 8 we host the Bucs. They are a very solid team for sure. But, we luck out in playing them in our house! Isn't too big of a stretch to see us grab that W.

Who knows... Hall may flame out or get hurt and we're stuck with DA again. Or, Hall does what he did against the Saints. Didn't kill us. Improved as the game went along. And lead the team to a W. I just think we have a very solid shot at getting to 8 wins. And this season, in the NFC Worst, 8 wins will get ya the Division Title. The 3rd in a row for our Cards!!! ;)

If we can beat Tampa at home and win another road game, it'll be difficult to wrestle the division from our grasp. But I think those are two big "ifs".

See above... We will either beat KC in KC, or beat the Panthers in Carolina... Just one of those two and we should have the NFC Worst locked up... :thumbup:
 

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If the Cards cannot win two of the three against KC, Carolina, and TB, they don't deserve to win the division. To me, all three should be very winnable. Even with the rookie Hall at QB.
 

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If the Cards cannot win two of the three against KC, Carolina, and TB, they don't deserve to win the division. To me, all three should be very winnable. Even with the rookie Hall at QB.


Yup... I think our best shots are with TB @ home, and the Panthers... KC is a good team and of course, is very well coached. They play pretty darn well at home too.
 

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Yup... I think our best shots are with TB @ home, and the Panthers... KC is a good team and of course, is very well coached. They play pretty darn well at home too.
Cassel has DA tendencies at times.
 

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Cassel has DA tendencies at times.


KC can run the ball... ranked 3rd in the NFL for rushing. We seem to have a problem stopping the run, particularly on the road. Cassel is better than DA IMHO, though his stats might not show it. But of course, he also has nobody to throw to as well...
 

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KC can run the ball... ranked 3rd in the NFL for rushing. We seem to have a problem stopping the run, particularly on the road. Cassel is better than DA IMHO, though his stats might not show it. But of course, he also has nobody to throw to as well...
That KC game should be fun to watch. Hopefully, the Cards will be interested in beating Haley.
 

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That KC game should be fun to watch. Hopefully, the Cards will be interested in beating Haley.


I really don't think the Cards (players and coaches) are going to want to leave KC having lost to Haley. Manhood is definitely on the line in this one!
Still, if I had to pick between this game and the Panthers, I'd say we have a better shot at the Panthers...
 

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Who knows... Hall may flame out or get hurt and we're stuck with DA again. Or, Hall does what he did against the Saints. Didn't kill us. Improved as the game went along. And lead the team to a W. I just think we have a very solid shot at getting to 8 wins. And this season, in the NFC Worst, 8 wins will get ya the Division Title. The 3rd in a row for our Cards!!!

I just hope Hall can last another 6 games. He was almost knocked out of the game twice Sunday and fumbled twice when hit. I hope the coaches are working with him on protecting the ball when he runs and to watch out for NFL Safeties.

Hey Max, we are one play away from Dewreck Anderson. Please be careful out there.
 

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If the Cards cannot win two of the three against KC, Carolina, and TB, they don't deserve to win the division. To me, all three should be very winnable. Even with the rookie Hall at QB.

I think you underestimate how hard it is for a rookie QB to win on the road, especially at a place that's difficult to win like Arrowhead. It's not like the Chiefs are stiffs on D; it's their O that has been struggling.

Carolina could beat us and Jimmy Clausen wouldn't have to complete a pass. We have to figure out how to stop the run, or that game will be over before it begins. I think they could win one of those three and still deserve to win the division, if only because I don't expect any of our division opponents to win a single game on the road.
 

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