Pace signed!

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Rowland Price
I agree it was a bigger need to get Pace into camp, but you do not let your top WR go for nothing then trade down for two picks in the first round then dig yourself into a corner and not be able to sign one of the first round picks. No wonder we are the Cardinals.

I still have hope for the season but this is typical.

Defintely the post of the day.

I honestly don't believe that they didn't think they would have only $900,00 to play around with AFTER they signed on the dotted line for Pace.

I think someone needs new batteries in their calculator.

BJ's gotta be ticked.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by red desert
The thing is, if either of these horses loses, ultimately it is cardinal fans that lose.

But so will the player, so it is in their mutual interest to do the deal.

And in this case losing was who gets signed first not who gets signed. It is clear that Pace's agent got a good deal for his client as he had more options available when he signed.

BJ can still get a good deal as well (no losers there), it's just the parameters of that deal are more constrained now. It's likely to be a longer tewrm deal that he wanted, all players want a shor term deal to get into FA as fast as possible. Tough.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by nidan
It just seem to me that the agent is pissed that his options have been drasticly reduced and may have to sign a longer term deal than he wanted to get the $$.

Nidan, at this point, it CANNOT be Johnson's agent that is to blame. PACE WAS OFFERED A BIGGER CONTRACT!!! If this article we're reading is correct, then Graves blundered and Johnson was screwed. He wasn't even OFFERED as high a contract as the guy drafted LOWER than him!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Some people need to seriously chill out....not mentioning any names

MENTION NAMES - GO AHEAD DO IT - I THIONK WE ALL KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! It's ME! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA - This will be the last one of these - I gotta go but I anxiously look forward to reading more of the Battered Card Syndrome later - PEACE! GRAVES IS GOD!

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by nidan
But so will the player, so it is in their mutual interest to do the deal.

And in this case losing was who gets signed first not who gets signed. It is clear that Pace's agent got a good deal for his client as he had more options available when he signed.

BJ can still get a good deal as well (no losers there), it's just the parameters of that deal are more constrained now. It's likely to be a longer tewrm deal that he wanted, all players want a shor term deal to get into FA as fast as possible. Tough.

Always a good idea to try and give the lower-drafted player a better deal and FORCE the higher-drafted player to swallow a worse deal. Great negotiating tool Maybe that's why we have problems signing picks?

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by Stout
Nidan, at this point, it CANNOT be Johnson's agent that is to blame. PACE WAS OFFERED A BIGGER CONTRACT!!! If this article we're reading is correct, then Graves blundered and Johnson was screwed. He wasn't even OFFERED as high a contract as the guy drafted LOWER than him!

No, he was offered a contract, when he didn't take it, they went after Pace. Read the article again.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
MENTION NAMES - GO AHEAD DO IT - I THIONK WE ALL KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! It's ME! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA - This will be the last one of these - I gotta go but I anxiously look forward to reading more of the Battered Card Syndrome later - PEACE! GRAVES IS GOD!

Is this really necessary?

Sorry but the only "battering of fans" here is what you are doing cheesebeef.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
MENTION NAMES - GO AHEAD DO IT - I THIONK WE ALL KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! It's ME! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA - This will be the last one of these - I gotta go but I anxiously look forward to reading more of the Battered Card Syndrome later - PEACE! GRAVES IS GOD!

It's not you specifically, it's everyone all together...

On both sides.

The apologists, who are blindly missing that Graves might've screwed up, and the darksiders that are jumping the gun from questionable info.

We barely know anything so far.

 

[Sandan]

Why do you say we have given the lower pick a better deal ? To my knowledge BJ has no deal yet for you to compare to Pace's.

I really don't understand the general level of hysteria around here right now (except for Cheese, who was born that way and is drinking heavily right now).

All this means is a longer term deal and/or some more "bells & Whistles" for BJ's deal.

It doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I seem no road blocks to BJ getting a fair/good deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Is this really necessary?

Sorry but the only "battering of fans" here is what you are doing cheesebeef.

No - I think both ME AND GRAVES are doing - at least I can admit and I said it will be the last post - sorry for not being so forgiving to the Jackass that traded a first round pick which ended up being in the top five FOR RICK MIRER!

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It's not you specifically, it's everyone all together...

On both sides.

The apologists, who are blindly missing that Graves might've screwed up, and the darksiders that are jumping the gun from questionable info.

We barely know anything so far.

That's true, Krang. But we have to go with what we know thus far. And from that article, we flubbed it.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It's not you specifically, it's everyone all together...

On both sides.

The apologists, who are blindly missing that Graves might've screwed up, and the darksiders that are jumping the gun from questionable info.

We barely know anything so far.

Precisely.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Stout
And from that article, we flubbed it.

Why ?

 

[CardinalChris]

Up until Sunday, the Cardinals were on similar negotiating paths with both of their first-round choices, offering each of them guaranteed money of about $4.4 million. But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace, after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly.

There now is a chance that Johnson and his agent will consider filing a grievance against the Cardinals, whose bargaining tactics were at least dubious, and who thought enough of the wide receiver three months ago to pluck him before taking Pace off the board.

Looks to me like Johnson's agent took his sweet time and struck out. There are ways around this still, however with a few more bells and whistles in Johnson's contract. But I think it is niave to blame Graves or the agent. I see both sides, and Graves got a player in. Better than both still negotiating.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
That's true, Krang. But we have to go with what we know thus far. And from that article, we flubbed it.

And Truman lost the election....we all know how that turned out.

My point is: Both sides are arguing from ignorance. Neither side knows the full story, and it is pointless to argue without full disclosure of evidence.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
Why do you say we have given the lower pick a better deal ? To my knowledge BJ has no deal yet for you to compare to Pace's.

I really don't understand the general level of hysteria around here right now (except for Cheese, who was born that way and is drinking heavily right now).

All this means is a longer term deal and/or some more "bells & Whistles" for BJ's deal.

It doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I seem no road blocks to BJ getting a fair/good deal.

Drinking heavily sounds like a good idea. One let me say this - I am psyched Pace is in Camp - Two - Graves makes me look smarter every day.

 

[Lex]

If you have two first rounders, #17-18, offer them both the same, and see if you have any takers, that's the first offer.

If they both say no, you do like the rest of your draft picks, work on the NEXT guy in line. That's what Graves did.

Now Graves has the LAST guy left to make a deal with.

 

[Pariah]

I'm glad Pace is in camp. Let's see how the Johnson deal turns out; it might work out fine. I don't think having Johnson in camp will make or break the Cards' season this year...but Pace's contribution might.

 

[seesred]

I don't for one minute think that Graves did this deal without thinking out the options he will go to Johnsons agernt with. I'm thrilled we have Pace in and I'm looking foward over the next ten days or so to welcome Johnson. These are not stupid people and a deal will be done. How fast? As fast as possible.
Add years
Give in to voidables
Larger bonuses over the term
options
incentives

Plus there is over $900,000 this year. What the heck why is everone so excited it's only football and the games haven't been played yet. I've said all along I trust RG untill something challanges that in fact.

GBR

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Originally posted by Stout
That's true, Krang. But we have to go with what we know thus far. And from that article, we flubbed it.

How about we base things on when Bryant Johnson is signed. It was expected he would be in by next week, which would put him in before the first preseason game.

If he isn't, then I will be pretty upset. I can actually see both sides of the arguement. By the same token though, if he signs in a reasonable amount of time...then all this attitude will be nothing but blustering and overreaction.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
No, he was offered a contract, when he didn't take it, they went after Pace. Read the article again.

This isn't rocket science, man. Perhaps YOU need to read this again:

Up until Sunday, the Cardinals were on similar negotiating paths with both of their first-round choices, offering each of them guaranteed money of about $4.4 million . But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace , after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly.

Like I said, it's not that difficult. Pace was offered more and Bryant's offer didn't go up. 'Nough said.

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by Lex
If you have two first rounders, #17-18, offer them both the same, and see if you have any takers, that's the first offer.

If they both say no, you do like the rest of your draft picks, work on the NEXT guy in line. That's what Graves did.

Now Graves has the LAST guy left to make a deal with.

Again, assumptions. All we know is they got the same offers for GARAUNTEED money. Johnson could have easily had a larger base salary in his contract. You don't know. He could offer the same garaunteed money to both and still given Johnson a larger contract. Pace just got more money up front.

 

[JeffGollin]

I thought I already posted this but somehow it never made it to the board -

Here's how I see it:

The Cardinals - who "gang banged" the wide receiver position because they weren't sure how their youngsters would progress or Gilmore would rehab - suddenly found themselves blessed with an abundance of riches.

No doubt Rod and/or Mac or Sully wondered out loud how they could play Gilmore, McAddley, Boldin, Kasper, Marquis Walker and Johnson all at the same time.

Suddenly Johnson and his agent (is it Rosenhaus, by the way) represented more of a headache than a solution.

And they needed to get Pace into camp because the lack of a pass rush has still not been successfully addressed.

So Rod pulled the trigger and took care of Priority #1.

If Johnson/agent don't get pig-headed about it, a pretty good deal can still be struck. If you assume that the Pace deal didn't break the bank slot-wise, you could make the case that Johnson is out $300,000 in guaranteed Year One money. That money can be made up (and then some) by (a) increasing the amount of the over all contract and (b) deferring the $300,000 guaranteed dollars into Year 2 and later.

To be quite honest - looking at the WR crop we alrady have in camp right now, I am not sobbing my heart out over Johnson. I think the team is going to be OK with or without him.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
How about we base things on when Bryant Johnson is signed. It was expected he would be in by next week, which would put him in before the first preseason game.

If he isn't, then I will be pretty upset. I can actually see both sides of the arguement. By the same token though, if he signs in a reasonable amount of time...then all this attitude will be nothing but blustering and overreaction.

I agree with this!

I may have gottena little hystericla here, but I dont understand how this deal is gonna work well for Johnson! Seems he is getting screwed unless Graves can really pull something out of his hat!

But I will wait and see!

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Stout

Like I said, it's not that difficult. Pace was offered more and Bryant's offer didn't go up. 'Nough said.

No I think you are wrong here.It seems from what little we know that theyt were both offered similar deal. But it seems that from then Pace's agent started negotiating to close the deal and BJ's was to slow or less pro-active.

This was probably also related to needed Pace in camp faster than BJ.

I still see few problems with getting BJ signed other than his agent is pissed. But when you screw up it is commomn to blame the other folks as it can't have been your fault and it seems that is what BJ's agent is doing