OT - Report concludes Patriots probably cheated, Brady aware

[Chopper0080]

Well I don't think ACT is worse. However, any act that damages the integrity of the game has to be dealt with in a similar fashion.

What kind of message does it send to teams that you can do things that can impact the outcome of a game or season but it's no big deal because you can just pay a fine and move on?

If the Patriots get a slap on the write, where is the deterrent for the next team to do it knowing the worst they get is a slap?

Personnel safety and manipulation of equipment are two seperate issues, and only the manipulation of equipment is an intergrity issue. They should be treated seperately because of this.

Are you gonna suspend guys for using kid leg pads vs adult leg pads because the kinds ones are lighter? Are you going to suspend players for faking injuries or working refs to get calls? All of those are manipulation issues that go on in every game. I agree that there should be a punishment, but let's not climb up to high on the horse.

Suspend him a game and move on.

 

[Covert Rain]

Personnel safety and manipulation of equipment are two seperate issues, and only the manipulation of equipment is an intergrity issue. They should be treated seperately because of this.

Are you gonna suspend guys for using kid leg pads vs adult leg pads because the kinds ones are lighter? Are you going to suspend players for faking injuries or working refs to get calls? All of those are manipulation issues that go on in every game. I agree that there should be a punishment, but let's not climb up to high on the horse.

Suspend him a game and move on.

Putting a hit on other players is an integrity issue as well. It speaks to the integrity of coaches and the ownership impacting the outcome of a game by taking the other team's players off the field.

Anything that you do to manipulate the game outside of the confines of playing football should be dealt harshly IMO or it will never end.

 

[Chopper0080]

Putting a hit on other players is an integrity issue as well. It speaks to the integrity of coaches and the ownership impacting the outcome of a game by taking the other team's players off the field.

Anything that you do to manipulate the game outside of the confines of playing football should be dealt harshly IMO or it will never end.

No it isn't, it is an ethics issue. That is the one thing these cases share is a poor example of ethics. But, to try and argue that putting a bounty on a player provides an unfair playing advantage is silly. It doesn't.

 

[Covert Rain]

No it isn't, it is an ethics issue. That is the one thing these cases share is a poor example of ethics. But, to try and argue that putting a bounty on a player provides an unfair playing advantage is silly. It doesn't.

It's both.

Integrity - the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

I would say a coach putting a hit on another player doesn't speak to strong moral principles or uprightness. Let along taking an honest approach to winning a football game.

The outcome of a bounty can result in losing a star player on the other side. His intent isn't to just put a normal hit on another player but take him out of the game. That would clearly provide an advantage.

 

[BigRedRage]

Where are you seeing this? I read the ESPN story it's not there, curious I would like to read the texts too. IF they have texts of this why would they say probably and not clearly?

i dont know, twitter somewhere. The entire report is available online. I think I was reading pages 141-145

 

[WildBB]

No it isn't, it is an ethics issue. That is the one thing these cases share is a poor example of ethics. But, to try and argue that putting a bounty on a player provides an unfair playing advantage is silly. It doesn't.

Ethics AND denial. Brady could be a secretary of state. Non Transparent. "What does it matter"?!

 

[Matt L]

I agree with this article: http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/to...-spears-coffee-pizza-top-google-search-terms/

One thing to note:

“Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.”

— From the NFL Game Operations Manual

So it appears there is something in the rule book for the act of tampering with the football, a fine of $25,000. Does the NFL try to make everything as overblown as possible?

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with this article: http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/to...-spears-coffee-pizza-top-google-search-terms/

One thing to note:

“Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.”

— From the NFL Game Operations Manual

So it appears there is something in the rule book for the act of tampering with the football, a fine of $25,000. Does the NFL try to make everything as overblown as possible?

This part is very precise language: "including but not limited to". Obviously the league felt that more damaging repercussions could be necessary.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's both.

Integrity - the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

I would say a coach putting a hit on another player doesn't speak to strong moral principles or uprightness. Let along taking an honest approach to winning a football game.

The outcome of a bounty can result in losing a star player on the other side. His intent isn't to just put a normal hit on another player but take him out of the game. That would clearly provide an advantage.

Integrity of the game speaks to a fair and even playing field. Hitting someone in a game that allows hitting, doesn't affect that. Unless you are saying that committing a penalty in a game is cheating? It is ethically wrong, because it is wrong to try to purposefully injure a person and try to take away their ability to work. Hence, everyone has an equal opportunity to do it, but it is ethically wrong to do so.

Honestly, if you can't get this, I can't help you. If you want to stick your head in the sand and live in your fairy tale world that every team isn't doing whatever it can to gain a competitive advantage, feel free to continue to be disappointed. It is right? No, of course it isn't, but it isn't a threat to the league by any means.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with this article: http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/to...-spears-coffee-pizza-top-google-search-terms/

One thing to note:

“Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.”

— From the NFL Game Operations Manual

So it appears there is something in the rule book for the act of tampering with the football, a fine of $25,000. Does the NFL try to make everything as overblown as possible?

Thank you for posting this.

 

[Chopper0080]

This part is very precise language: "including but not limited to". Obviously the league felt that more damaging repercussions could be necessary.

Is that like saying it is "likely that Brady some knowledge of the deflated balls"? Obviously, the investigation has no definitive proof that he knew anything.

 

[moosehead]

I read the ESPN story it's not there, curious I would like to read the texts too

Here are the texts http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/06/patriots-tom-brady-deflategate-investigation-text-messages

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...gate-report/KXp2glXgHqxgvlu7CiWuaN/story.html

 

[chickenhead]

This wasn't just a game. It was the AFC Championship game!
My ruling
Patriots lose their 1st and 2nd round picks in the 2016 draft
Tom Brady is suspended 2 games
Owner is fined $100,000
Coach B - not sure what should be done - can't tell how involved (if at all) he was.

I know they won't, but they should forfeit that game and the super bowl trophy.

Actually, if it's true, then to me it means it was "at least" the AFC Championship game. The Pats had a few close wins during the season (two against the Jets and I think the Raiders come to mind). Some go-ahead TD passes in there--why would one assume they didn't also do it then? The Pats would still have made the playoffs with a couple of those results reversed, but it could have meant them on the road in Baltimore rather than the Ravens coming to them.

Didn't affect the Cardinals fortunes at all, but if I were another AFC contender I would be annoyed.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Actually, if it's true, then to me it means it was "at least" the AFC Championship game. The Pats had a few close wins during the season (two against the Jets and I think the Raiders come to mind). Some go-ahead TD passes in there--why would one assume they didn't also do it then? The Pats would still have made the playoffs with a couple of those results reversed, but it could have meant them on the road in Baltimore rather than the Ravens coming to them.

Didn't affect the Cardinals fortunes at all, but if I were another AFC contender I would be annoyed.

Speculation is that they've been doing it for years. They used to fumble at the same rate as other teams and suddenly - in recent years (right after they got caught cheating with cameras) - their lack of fumbling skyrocketed them to the best team at handling the ball in the history of the league. Coincidence?

 

[ajcardfan]

Speculation is that they've been doing it for years. They used to fumble at the same rate as other teams and suddenly - in recent years (right after they got caught cheating with cameras) - their lack of fumbling skyrocketed them to the best team at handling the ball in the history of the league. Coincidence?

I would think they couldn't get away with it for so long. But, maybe officiating in the NFL is that inept. I would think checking ball inflation would be an automatic, both before and during the game.


Of any franchise cheating though, I would put NE at 1a, 1b and 2nd most likely of all 32 teams. They have been under a lot of pressure to get another Super Bowl, at all costs.

 

[Covert Rain]

Integrity of the game speaks to a fair and even playing field. Hitting someone in a game that allows hitting, doesn't affect that. Unless you are saying that committing a penalty in a game is cheating? It is ethically wrong, because it is wrong to try to purposefully injure a person and try to take away their ability to work. Hence, everyone has an equal opportunity to do it, but it is ethically wrong to do so.

Honestly, if you can't get this, I can't help you. If you want to stick your head in the sand and live in your fairy tale world that every team isn't doing whatever it can to gain a competitive advantage, feel free to continue to be disappointed. It is right? No, of course it isn't, but it isn't a threat to the league by any means.

I didn't make up the definition. I just repeated it. You can redefine it if you like but that doesn't change anything. Encouraging hitting is one thing but that's not what a bounty does. It encourages dirty plays (late hitting, hitting below the knee etc.) to take players out of the game.

If you can't understand that I can't help you either.

 

[redforceone]

If you feel this strongly, and if this is impacting you that much, then don't. Let someone else give the NFL their money. Or, you could just renew your tickets, and admit that it really doesn't impact your or I very much at all.

Anyone interested in 4 section 118 season tickets... send me a PM... I'll probably sell em.

 

[Paso Fino]

It is instructive that Brady refused to allow the investigators to view his emails or text messages.

 

[FORKTUNG]

Give Brady a 6 week suspension just like NASCAR suspended Ryan Newman's Crew Chief for messing with tire pressures haha

 

[Bert]

They cheated and they got caught, and they lied. So yes, they need to be punished. I say 2-4 games max. THAT BEING SAID...

Have you guys not heard former GREAT players come out in defense? This kind of stuff happens CONSTANTLY in sports, people do little things here and there to gain an edge. Pitchers in baseball cheat their butts off all the freaking time. Jerry Rice said he used stickum LONG after it was banned. Are we going to take the 49ers rings away from them too? How bout the literally thousands of guys who have taken PED's over the years?

Walter Payton said in his book that everytime he was tackled he would take the ball and place it a yard further upfield than where he was tackled, hoping to affect the spot. He said it may have not been much each time but over the years he probably gained more than a few extra yards that way. Isn't that cheating? Yep it is, but we dont all HATE Walter Peyton like we obviously hate Tom Brady so Brady is the one who needs to be crucified for "ruining the sanctity of the game." what a joke... Aaron Rodgers freely admitted that he likes an over inflated ball. where is the witch hunt for him? Jake Plummer laughed this whole thing off and said that literally EVERY QB IN THE LEAGUE did this when he was playing.

How bout basketball players who travel everytime they touch the ball. Just because they know they can get away with it because the officials wont call it, is it not still cheating?

And people invoking the holier than thou; "This is why I watch COLLEGE football." nonsense. Excuse me while I go throw up. Yeah, colleges definitely all play by the rules when they recruit 5 star guys...

Just saying, YES this is bad and deserves to be punished. But some of ya'll talking about lifetime bans, acting like this is this great travesty, this betrayal of the 'sanctity' of the game that just doesn't exist.

I just laugh at all the Brady hate.... Because that is exactly what this is from some people... You cant be ostriches with your heads in the sand about all other cheating that has always been going on in sports and suddenly pop up just to be affronted, offended and betrayed by this one incident. That is hypocrisy at its best!

 

[BigRedRage]

Anyone interested in 4 section 118 season tickets... send me a PM... I'll probably sell em.

I am interested in buying one game

 

[frankeegee1]

I haven't read the report or paid a whole lot of attention to it, other than what little I read here and what I hear on Mike and Mike in the morning before work.

Personally, I don't see how they can punish when there is only a "probably" that he/they did it or knew about it.

I think the more likelihood of punishment will come from what Polian said this morning on the M and M show. The nfl did not receive their full cooperation. They will be punished for that.

I think the NFL might try to give Brady some punishment for lying but, he will fight it.

 

[Bodha]

If you aint cheatin, you aint tryin.


This isn't news. Its folks fishing for something to be mad at because.....it matters?

There are varying degrees of "cheating". This is literally dead last.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

They cheated and they got caught, and they lied. So yes, they need to be punished. I say 2-4 games max.

The problem is that they cannot prove it. It is why that they said probably. You can't punish someone when you can prove they did anything wrong.

 

[Dback Jon]

The problem is that they cannot prove it. It is why that they said probably. You can't punish someone when you can prove they did anything wrong.

A lady just got convicted of murder it with no hard proof all circumstantial evidence so you're way off base here