OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[BritCard]

Teams that know their QB isn’t the answer. Seattle did that this off-season. Denver did it last offseason.

Our GM decided to stay pat with Kyler, go into the season with a worse offensive line and bring back the same offense that sputtered down the stretch.

That’s their own fault. Period.

The Seahawks did it because Denver called and said "We'll give you two 1st round picks and some players for 34 year old Russell Wilson". If someone calls us and offers two firsts and some players for Kyler you can be assured they will take it.

There was no getting out of a contract that until this year had something like $50m in dead money to move on from. People here are keen to point of how frugal Mike is, well you can't think he's going to burn $50m.

The first realistic out if after this season, if they stick with him then they can carry the can. But unrealistic to expect them to move off before.

 

[BritCard]

Could make that crystal clear if that's the case.
Bench kyler and start Brissett for a few weeks.
If we suddenly score 30+ a game with 300 yards passing every week and multiple 40+ yards plays...then it is glaringly clear the system is not the issue.

Something like that needs to happen if we expect Mike to eat the last year of the contract

I hope that will happen, but I think it's too early yet for them to make that leap. When you do it there's no going back and the team is still 2-2. They won't think about changes until it's either over, or it's plainly obvious Kyler is broke and they think Brissett is better.

I said this morning that this team can definitely still win games and all Kyler has to do is stop being a big fanny when throwing. We're 7 points from 4-0, if Kyler can get his YPA up from embarrassingly awful to just mediocre we can win a bunch.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

People here are keen to point of how frugal Mike is, well you can't think he's going to burn $50m.

Yeah - the root of all of our problems is the failson from the failfamily who have held us all hostage while they play NFL owner...happy to be at the table, no ambition to be anything more than that.

 

[BritCard]

This thread alone pays the bills

 

[Cheesebeef]

I hope that will happen, but I think it's too early yet for them to make that leap. When you do it there's no going back and the team is still 2-2. They won't think about changes until it's either over, or it's plainly obvious Kyler is broke and they think Brissett is better.

I said this morning that this team can definitely still win games and all Kyler has to do is stop being a big fanny when throwing. We're 7 points from 4-0, if Kyler can get his YPA up from embarrassingly awful to just mediocre we can win a bunch.

We’re 12 points away from 0-4 having played two of the worst teams in the league.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

jacoby brissett - behind this line - and with these receivers... i think he'd get mcbride mcmurdered

 

[Crimson Warrior]

it's not kyler - and by that i mean kyler hasn't changed - choked when the games was on the line then came back to life when it was already over

brissett is not an upgrade - that's the only reason you'd make the switch - we'd have less of a chance of winning- please don't put the brissett on a pedestal just because kyler is kylering

You know BGT, I actually wish we would start Brissett for three or four games.

Just so we could have some kind of baseline for determining how much of the passing game struggles are on K1.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

You know BGT, I actually wish we would start Brissett for three or four games.

Just so we could have some kind of baseline for determining how much of the passing game struggles are on K1.

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[kerouac9]

You know BGT, I actually wish we would start Brissett for three or four games.

Just so we could have some kind of baseline for determining how much of the passing game struggles are on K1.

Brissett is very bad. This would not be replacing Bryce Young with Andy Dalton. This would be replacing Derek Carr with Spencer Rattler.

 

[daves]

Gannon not doing his homework on Kyler is his own fault.

Sure, that's his fault.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a successful HC with a competent QB.

Vince Lombardi could've taken the job and he would've failed. Now that it's certain that the Cardinals need a different QB, why throw out the baby with the bath water?

Not saying that Gannon has PROVEN that he's a great HC, but there's no evidence that he's not.

 

[DaHilg]

Dog Kyler as much as you want for his limitations. I just wish we could have seen him with a great interior line (a must for him…it exposes perhaps hsi biggest weakness), a veteran or any OC that worked to create a scheme at the things he excels at a la Lamar and Hurts…

Maybe he still would suck, but it will be a curiosity that always will be on my mind when his tenure is done here.

 

[daves]

If Michael was having to sell Jonathan Gannon on the opportunity to be a head coach here the situation is even more dire than we imagined.

Really? It doesn't take ANY imagination to recognize how dire things are for Bidwill's franchise.

Any coach who has any prospects for success in the league needs to be sold on coming to Arizona.

 

[kerouac9]

Sure, that's his fault.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a successful HC with a competent QB.

Vince Lombardi could've taken the job and he would've failed. Now that it's certain that the Cardinals need a different QB, why throw out the baby with the bath water?

Not saying that Gannon has PROVEN that he's a great HC, but there's no evidence that he's not.

I think a great head coach finds a solution to the Kyler problem earlier. A great HC like Sean Payton probably made control over the Kyler situation a stipulation of his hiring and that’s why he’s in Denver.

If the FO is convinced that Gannon can be a great HC then they should keep him. I don’t have enough information to say anything more than I’m convinced he’s not Urban Meyer-level bad. Am I convinced he’s better than replacement level? I am not.

If the Cards have a path to a veteran QB I’m fine with keeping Gannon and figuring it out along the way. If they’re going to draft and develop a starter with a high pick, I think you transition your organization to getting people around that prospect you feel can successfully develop him.

Don’t be the Bears with Eberflus.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

My perfect scenario?

Bring in a new offensive coordinator (maybe McDaniel if he gets fired from Miami), draft a QB and let him learn behind a suitable veteran.

That veteran may be Murray depending on who’s available (because yes I do believe that mayfield, darnold, going to make me cringe but even Danny dimes would function better in this offense). I could suffer another season with Murray behind center if I knew it was to give a rookie QB some time to develop and Murray was on a short leash - and that would even appease the pro Murray supporters who think another coach is going to somehow “unlock” him.

Let’s pretend Murray retired from football after this season crimson- what would be your ideal QB plan in our current situation?

It's a great question because it is so hard to find good QB play. It's so challenging to play QB at high level in the NFL.

Seeing guys like Stafford, Goff, and Mayfield having success with other teams makes getting a vet from another team an interesting proposition, especially if you didn't have to pay them a ton of money.

But that seems super risky. Maybe you end of up Russ Wilson or Deshaun Watson instead.

I think draft and develop. Use the extra cap space to build around him. Put excellent coaches around him that will hold him accountable and help him become great. Build a great offensive line. Basically plan like the Eagles have done with (2nd round pick) Jalen.

The question is, how do we get a top ten pick for the year that we move on from K-1 (if he can't help turn this offense around and we move on).

Like your idea too. Hope it doesn't come to that!

 

[SoonerLou]

Sure, that's his fault.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a successful HC with a competent QB.

Vince Lombardi could've taken the job and he would've failed. Now that it's certain that the Cardinals need a different QB, why throw out the baby with the bath water?

Not saying that Gannon has PROVEN that he's a great HC, but there's no evidence that he's not.

Dog Kyler as much as you want for his limitations. I just wish we could have seen him with a great interior line (a must for him…it exposes perhaps hsi biggest weakness), a veteran or any OC that worked to create a scheme at the things he excels at a la Lamar and Hurts…

Maybe he still would suck, but it will be a curiosity that always will be on my mind when his tenure is done here.

My thing is this is the result of when there is no plan for the limitations.

If Monti/JG knew after a half year (2023) yea we dont really plan on working around his limitations then he shouldnt be the QB.

You definitely dont run back the same QB, same weapons and same gameplan. Its malpractice. Ego. Or chess moves by Monti to be made later.


Kyler is like Russell Westbrook in basketball. If you want him to carry your offense thats your fault believing his athleticism will consistently carry you. If you want to put zero shooters around him then I begin to question do you even know how to maximize your wrong choice.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

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lol.. right. Well not now of course. not with the season still hanging in the balance.

I should have said "I almost wish".

It's just so frustrating watching how terrible is the passing game. Way worse than last year when it wasn't that great. How is that possible?

 

[DaHilg]

It's a great question because it is so hard to find good QB play. It's so challenging to play QB at high level in the NFL.

Seeing guys like Stafford, Goff, and Mayfield having success with other teams makes getting a vet from another team an interesting proposition, especially if you didn't have to pay them a ton of money.

But that seems super risky. Maybe you end of up Russ Wilson or Deshaun Watson instead.

I think draft and develop. Use the extra cap space to build around him. Put excellent coaches around him that will hold him accountable and help him become great. Build a great offensive line. Basically plan like the Eagles have done with (2nd round pick) Jalen.

The question is, how do we get a top ten pick for the year that we move on from K-1 (if he can't help turn this offense around and we move on).

Like your idea too. Hope it doesn't come to that!

It’s pathetic to think of another rebuild after we just spent 3 years “rebuilding”. The more I think about it, the more I think MO’s done a crappy job, JG has done a crappy job.

Should have spent more money last season … and this season. Teams get turned around 1 year let alone 3 years.

This also shows we’ve added a lot of talent that our coaching downs know how to coach up. I refuse to believe that our roster after 3 years isn’t good enough to make the playoffs in a weaker NFC

 

[BritCard]

This is after the int and the fumble recovery. 2nd drive.

Kyler too keen to bail. I think the pass to Trey is there all along and Kyler is staring it down. I think he can get the pass out before and pressure, but at worst you just shuffle your feet and move right or step up. Trey open for a big gain.

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[Crimson Warrior]

It’s pathetic to think of another rebuild after we just spent 3 years “rebuilding”. The more I think about it, the more I think MO’s done a crappy job, JG has done a crappy job.

Should have spent more money last season … and this season. Teams get turned around 1 year let alone 3 years.

This also shows we’ve added a lot of talent that our coaching downs know how to coach up. I refuse to believe that our roster after 3 years isn’t good enough to make the playoffs in a weaker NFC

Let's just hope and pray it doesn't come to that my friend.

That somehow, someway, this group finds a way to turn it around.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think a great head coach finds a solution to the Kyler problem earlier. A great HC like Sean Payton probably made control over the Kyler situation a stipulation of his hiring and that’s why he’s in Denver.

If the FO is convinced that Gannon can be a great HC then they should keep him. I don’t have enough information to say anything more than I’m convinced he’s not Urban Meyer-level bad. Am I convinced he’s better than replacement level? I am not.

If the Cards have a path to a veteran QB I’m fine with keeping Gannon and figuring it out along the way. If they’re going to draft and develop a starter with a high pick, I think you transition your organization to getting people around that prospect you feel can successfully develop him.

Don’t be the Bears with Eberflus.

REVEREND!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Brissett is very bad. This would not be replacing Bryce Young with Andy Dalton. This would be replacing Derek Carr with Spencer Rattler.

Sigh.. I know you're right. And of course I don't want to give up on my hero.

But at the same time, some here think we have the worst QB1 in the universe right now.

I know that's not true, but the passing game is so broken. So horribly broken. And we need to understand exactly why, so it can fixed.

K1 bears some responsibility, but how much? And how much is the WR room, and how much is DP? They're all culpable, I think, but we need to understand to what degree each bears the blame.

But we really can't make a change now. Not with the chance to get to 3-2 against the Titans.

I guess we just have suffer through this and hope it gets better.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It’s pathetic to think of another rebuild after we just spent 3 years “rebuilding”. The more I think about it, the more I think MO’s done a crappy job, JG has done a crappy job.

Should have spent more money last season … and this season. Teams get turned around 1 year let alone 3 years.

This also shows we’ve added a lot of talent that our coaching downs know how to coach up. I refuse to believe that our roster after 3 years isn’t good enough to make the playoffs in a weaker NFC

This was the payoff year for the rebuild, no doubt.

But it's still to early to call 2025 a failure. It certainly looks like it can fail, but in truth, we should have won last Sunday, and we've should have at least gotten to overtime last night. It's not like we're losing 45-10.

Gannon has not lost the locker room, and there's some prospect for improvement in the starting 22 in the next few weeks.

Sigh... let's see how this plays out DaHilg.

What's the origin story for your name btw?

 

[SoonerLou]

@DVontel Is K1 mid because of his limitations, he doesnt work on things to overcome his limitations or the organization has failed to work around those limitations?

Seems like the last 3 games I could give a different answer.

 

[DVontel]

@DVontel Is K1 mid because of his limitations, he doesnt work on things to overcome his limitations or the organization has failed to work around those limitations?

Seems like the last 3 games I could give a different answer.

2 & 3 wouldn’t be possible because of 1. A bit of a combo of all 3 tho

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

This is after the int and the fumble recovery. 2nd drive.

Kyler too keen to bail. I think the pass to Trey is there all along and Kyler is staring it down. I think he can get the pass out before and pressure, but at worst you just shuffle your feet and move right or step up. Trey open for a big gain.

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Almost every All-22 you post, I key in on MHJ, and he's basically never open, or even attempting to get open lol