OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[DVontel]

Of course they did, but nobody turns down an NFL HC job. There are only so many available and those chances only come around once in some coaches lives.

Ben Johnson laughs at this.

 

[BritCard]

Ben Johnson laughs at this.

Ben Johnson was turned down the Commanders. He was a very highly regarded offensive mind that knew others would come. And even then it's extremely rare.

Defensive coaches don't get as many opportunities.

It's a completely spurious argument anyway. Would be completely fair for a HC to think a young 26 YO QB was someone they could develop only to find out he couldn't.

The fact that he can't move off of him and he's locked in as starter isn't on JG.

 

[Chopper0080]

Of course they did, but nobody turns down an NFL HC job. There are only so many available and those chances only come around once in some coaches lives.

Plus, they only knew Kyler from outside the building and there's enough there for any coach to think they can work with that and fix the issues. Kyler was only 26 at the time, and HC is going to see that as putty to mold.


Nevertheless, he was locked in to Kyler and didn't even get to work with him in earnest until several weeks into the season. Petzing might have been telling him after a couple of weeks of practice the Kyler had serious limitations, we'll never know. We do know he's had no choice put to start him and say how great he is in public.

I get why they took it, but again, they made that decision knowing Kyler was the QB.

 

[DVontel]

Ben Johnson was turned down the Commanders

Commanders Learned Ben Johnson Was Withdrawing Coaching Candidacy by Social Media

Talk about a humiliating rejection.

www.si.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

Let's be honest here. They took the job knowing Kyler was the QB. Until something comes out that shows they were told they could get rid of Kyler and then Bidwill changed the agreement, they all knew what they were signing up for. They thought they could make it work with Kyler. That's on them.

You marry a chick who has been divorced before because she was unfaithful, you lose the ability to cry when she does it to you.

They also ALL decided to stay with the EXACT same offense going into this year. Didn’t make any changes. That even further says this version will work.

We’ve yet to even break 300 yards of offense in a game… TOTAL. This is what failure looks like. They own it. Period.

 

[BritCard]

I get why they took it, but again, they made that decision knowing Kyler was the QB.

Sure, they didn't know what Kyler's abilities or limitations were. And I'm sure much of the interview process was Mike telling candidates they had this great, young, 1st overall pick they really needed to get the most out of.

I've always been dubious of Kyler, I know you have too. I recall you years ago questioning his mechanics and ability to read a defense. But there's been a decline the last few years that even I didn't expect. He's way worse at the moment than I thought he'd ever be.

I don't know if it was his injury, or something happened before that (his arm has not been the same since 2022) but nobody signed up for a QB playing this bad.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

i asked h.i.
was darnold better than kyler?

amswer:
for 3 and a half quarters

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They also ALL decided to stay with the EXACT same offense going into this year. Didn’t make any changes. That even further says this version will work.

We’ve yet to even break 300 yards of offense in a game… TOTAL. This is what failure looks like. They own it. Period.

Same offense, same personnel. Instead of continuity leading to greater success, we've somehow gotten worse.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Would anyone take Murray over Darnold? People are so terrified of moving on from Kyler yet forget that there are tons of franchises who move on from franchise QB's and succeed. Seattle is an obvious example.

 

[BritCard]

They also ALL decided to stay with the EXACT same offense going into this year. Didn’t make any changes. That even further says this version will work.

We’ve yet to even break 300 yards of offense in a game… TOTAL. This is what failure looks like. They own it. Period.

What teams change offense year to year?

 

[BritCard]

Would anyone take Murray over Darnold? People are so terrified of moving on from Kyler yet forget that there are tons of franchises who move on from franchise QB's and succeed. Seattle is an obvious example.

For all their laughing emojis I haven't seen anyone from the Kyler Krew actually defend his play last night.

 

[DVontel]

Would anyone take Murray over Darnold? People are so terrified of moving on from Kyler yet forget that there are tons of franchises who move on from franchise QB's and succeed. Seattle is an obvious example.

Clear answer is no, but we’ve also never been a stable franchise like Seattle.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nah man. This team would be 4-0 with a better QB. Absolutely no need to clean house.

We would be yes. We would also be 4-0 if MHJ were better.

I guess the hope is because Marv is in year 2 he WILL get better and it's unlikely Kyler will

 

[Cheesebeef]

What teams change offense year to year?

Teams that know their QB isn’t the answer. Seattle did that this off-season. Denver did it last offseason.

Our GM decided to stay pat with Kyler, go into the season with a worse offensive line and bring back the same offense that sputtered down the stretch.

That’s their own fault. Period.

 

[oaken1]

dad jokes are supposed to be funny and overly clever

Whereas momma jokes are supposed to be offensive

 

[kerouac9]

Sure, they didn't know what Kyler's abilities or limitations were. And I'm sure much of the interview process was Mike telling candidates they had this great, young, 1st overall pick they really needed to get the most out of.

I've always been dubious of Kyler, I know you have too. I recall you years ago questioning his mechanics and ability to read a defense. But there's been a decline the last few years that even I didn't expect. He's way worse at the moment than I thought he'd ever be.

I don't know if it was his injury, or something happened before that (his arm has not been the same since 2022) but nobody signed up for a QB playing this bad.

If Michael was having to sell Jonathan Gannon on the opportunity to be a head coach here the situation is even more dire than we imagined.

Gannon not doing his homework on Kyler is his own fault.

 

[oaken1]

Yup, this whole staff was stuck with Kyler. Absolutely not fair to bin them all because of that. This is a good defense. I think the offense has much potential, we're just hamstrung at QB. They need a shot at nurturing their own.

Could make that crystal clear if that's the case.
Bench kyler and start Brissett for a few weeks.
If we suddenly score 30+ a game with 300 yards passing every week and multiple 40+ yards plays...then it is glaringly clear the system is not the issue.

Something like that needs to happen if we expect Mike to eat the last year of the contract

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

it's not kyler - and by that i mean kyler hasn't changed - choked when the games was on the line then came back to life when it was already over

brissett is not an upgrade - that's the only reason you'd make the switch - we'd have less of a chance of winning- please don't put the brissett on a pedestal just because kyler is kylering

 

[oaken1]

Let's be honest here. They took the job knowing Kyler was the QB. Until something comes out that shows they were told they could get rid of Kyler and then Bidwill changed the agreement, they all knew what they were signing up for. They thought they could make it work with Kyler. That's on them.

You marry a chick who has been divorced before because she was unfaithful, you lose the ability to cry when she does it to you.

While I do agree... let me ask you...

You get offered $30 mil guaranteed to run a crew for the next 5 years. The crew suxx. You know they suck...and the foreman is the owners entitled little nephew that ain't going anywhere...
But in your industry there are only a few of these jobs available and if you don't take this one you may never get another chance...
So do you take the job? Chance the putrid nephew, get your guaranteed 30mil...

Or are you going to decline...fully knowing you may never get another chance to run a crew?

I was already down on kyler and I would have swore up and down he was the reincarnation of Johnny unitas and with him in my system lombardis will be easy...because hell, we may never lose a game.
I would tell Mikey and Monti whatever they wanted to hear...for one simple fact...not only is a HC paid like 15 times more than his coordinators...but coordinator contracts ain't guaranteed in the same way...
It's instant life security with a single stroke of the pen

 

[oaken1]

it's not kyler - and by that i mean kyler hasn't changed - choked when the games was on the line then came back to life when it was already over

brissett is not an upgrade - that's the only reason you'd make the switch - we'd have less of a chance of winning- please don't put the brissett on a pedestal just because kyler is kylering

I ain't pedestaling nobody...but if the high flying options are present in the offense and kyler is just choosing not to take them...then starting a guy who will take those options should clearly highlight kylers shortcomings

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

I ain't pedestaling nobody...but if the high flying options are present in the offense and kyler is just choosing not to take them...then starting a guy who will take those options should clearly highlight kylers shortcomings

you mean throw interceptions

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Clear answer is no, but we’ve also never been a stable franchise like Seattle.

True. You get stable by getting good people in charge and letting them do their thing. I'd LOVE for Monti and JG to be those guys, but I've seen nothing to indicate that Monti is any more than a mid to low tier GM, and JG somehow lost all of his aggression after the first year.

 

[SoonerLou]

They also ALL decided to stay with the EXACT same offense going into this year. Didn’t make any changes. That even further says this version will work.

We’ve yet to even break 300 yards of offense in a game… TOTAL. This is what failure looks like. They own it. Period.

I think thats whats the most insulting about all of this.

I mean Keim was a disaster at least he tried to replace Kirk with Hollywood Brown. Didnt work cause Keim is horrible but there is at least a level of knowing you must do something.

Monti either doesnt think you need to put much resource towards offense or he simply is playing chess and just waiting to get out of Kyler contract before investing.
2023 a stripped down roster. I get those saying he drafted PJJ, but that plays into Monti's hope for physical OL. Plus Carter off the field concerns.
2024 Yes he drafted MHJ, but a roster that bad just draft one of the higher ranked prospects.

So again either he thought that was enough or he simply wants out of this contract as fast as possible. Which is maybe why JG is so staunch on Petzing. They have the go ahead they can find their Darnold, or Baker, etc etc instead trying to make this work.

 

[DVontel]

Didnt work cause Keim is horrible but there is at least a level of knowing you must do something.

By far bigger problem with that was trading away our first rounder.

 

[SoonerLou]

By far bigger problem with that was trading away our first rounder.

Of for sure that was the "horrible Keim" part indicating. We could have drafted an elite center in Linderbaum.