OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[DVontel]

Are people really still doing the Call of Duty gimmick thing? It’s 2025.

Kyler just doesn’t perform up to par under pressure when it matters. Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Kyler gets worse EVERY SEASON after Call of Duty comes out. FACT!!!

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[kerouac9]

Are people really still doing the Call of Duty gimmick thing? It’s 2025.

Kyler just doesn’t perform up to par under pressure when it matters. Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty

The CoD thing is funny -- especially because Kyler decided to take it up on his own and clown the haters...

... then immediately turned into Derek Carr once Call of Duty came out.

Again.

 

[daves]

Are people really still doing the Call of Duty gimmick thing? It’s 2025.

Kyler just doesn’t perform up to par under pressure when it matters. Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty

It is what it is. Your assertion that it "Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty" is without evidence. Here are the facts:

Murray career pre/post Call of Duty release*:
- pre (37 games): 21-15-1 record (.581), 56 TD, 25 INT (2.24:1), 7.2 y/a, 94.5 passer rating
- post (45 games): 15-30 record (.333), 59 TD, 32 INT (1.84:1), 6.8 y/a, 90.5 passer rating

In another thread, I compared Murray's pre/post CoD stats to those of Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa, and Trevor Lawrence (names suggested by @Mulli). Summary:

Murray's W-L percentage drops by .248 (!), while each of the other three's W-L percentage improves by .047 on average. Murray is by miles the worst of the four.

Muray's TD:INT ratio drops by 0.4, while Darnold's and Tagovailoa's improve by .485 and Lawrence's drops by 0.3. Murray is the worst of the four.

Murray's yards per attempt drops by 0.4. Darnod's increases by 0.3, Tagovailoas's drops by 0.9, and Lawrence's drops by 0.2. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Murray's passer rating drops by 4 points. Darnold's increases by 9.8, Tagovailoa's drops by 5.3, and Lawrence's drops by 2.9. Murray ranks third out of the four.


In my opinion, as the season goes on, opposing defenses study and understand Murray's tendencies A LOT MORE than Murray studies and understands opposing defenses. And the release of Call of Duty, while not the only factor, surely can't help with Murray's study habits.

* 25 Oct 2019, 13 Nov 2020, 5 Nov 2021, 28 Oct 2022, 10 Nov 2023, and 25 Oct 2024

 

[PDXChris]

Speaking of Vinny, remember when the Panthers woke him up from his retirement nap at 44, have 1 total practice 5 games in to the season to beat a good Cardinals team?

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[DVontel]

Yes I read the wall of text the first time. That’s commendable @daves


Do you realize people play Call of Duty from one release date to the next release date? Which is a whole year. Are you implying that Kyler just magically stops playing the most recent COD for two months in September & October? Then replays the next one all the way until next September? That doesn’t sound silly to you? If it doesn’t, I’m sorry you continue to adhere by the gimmick.


I don’t know what’s so hard admitting that he just shrinks when lights are the brightest. Maybe it’s stress. Maybe it’s nerves. Maybe it’s his physical state. I don’t think him being a mediocre deep passer has to do with him using the best weapon on Call of Duty. Also, “assertion without evidence”, you can do without the K9 cosplay.

 

[gimpy]

Can't it be a combination of all of the above or below :>) ?

Yes I read the wall of text the first time. That’s commendable @daves


Do you realize people play Call of Duty from one release date to the next release date? Which is a whole year. Are you implying that Kyler just magically stops playing the most recent COD for two months in September & October? Then replays the next one all the way until next September? That doesn’t sound silly to you? If it doesn’t, I’m sorry you continue to adhere by the gimmick.


I don’t know what’s so hard admitting that he just shrinks when lights are the brightest. Maybe it’s stress. Maybe it’s nerves. Maybe it’s his physical state. I don’t think him being a mediocre deep passer has to do with him using the best weapon on Call of Duty. Also, “assertion without evidence”, you can do without the K9 cosplay.

 

[daves]

Do you realize people play Call of Duty from one release date to the next release date? Which is a whole year. Are you implying that Kyler just magically stops playing the most recent COD for two months in September & October?

Even if you've never played a video game, you can't be that naive.

Interest in Call of Duty peaks massively after the new release each year, then gradually drops off each month, to annual lows the next September and October.

Compare the dates I listed above to the monthly average players on Steam.
Between October and November 2022, usage more than doubled (+116%), then by the following September, it dropped by 3/4. Then it nearly doubled again in Nov-Dec 2023, then dropped by about 40% by Aug-Sep 2024. Then it increased more than 2.5x in Nov 2024, then dropped by 64% in the last 30 days.

I don’t know what’s so hard admitting that he just shrinks when lights are the brightest. Maybe it’s stress. Maybe it’s nerves. Maybe it’s his physical state.

Could be all of those things also! In a way, that's a lot worse, because there's NO chance of Murray improving on those measures. But he might be able to mature and dedicate himself to improving his craft, and find the willpower to focus on football rather than playing his favorite video game.

I don’t think him being a mediocre deep passer has to do with him using the best weapon on Call of Duty. Also, “assertion without evidence”, you can do without the K9 cosplay.

You don't think so, but there's no evidence behind your assertion that his choking "Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty". It's just your opinion, or hope. But the alternative is worse!

I don't have any evidence for the causation, but there sure is a strong correlation, so whatever the real reason, I'm going to continue calling it the Call of Duty effect. Some may think he's shaken that reputation, but he needs to put the evidence on the field to convince me.

 

[AZ Native]

Even if you've never played a video game, you can't be that naive.

Interest in Call of Duty peaks massively after the new release each year, then gradually drops off each month, to annual lows the next September and October.

Compare the dates I listed above to the monthly average players on Steam.
Between October and November 2022, usage more than doubled (+116%), then by the following September, it dropped by 3/4. Then it nearly doubled again in Nov-Dec 2023, then dropped by about 40% by Aug-Sep 2024. Then it increased more than 2.5x in Nov 2024, then dropped by 64% in the last 30 days.

As a father of gamers, I can attest to that.

 

[oaken1]

I play Path of Exile.
They put out a new league every few months.
On opening day there is a que with thousands in it...the servers crash a lot the first few days.
The game is crowded as hell for a few weeks...but after a month...online active users drops 50% from opening weekend.
Then it drops another 50% by the end of the second month...
By the time they announce the next league the place is a ghost town

 

[Stout]

Disappointment maybe. No one who gets a second contract—especially with the same team—is a bust.

A second contract he should never have gotten. Had the team not done it super early, there's no way he gets that contract the following offseason.

 

[602 Native]

The Boomer Call of Duty takes have returned.

There are lots of things to knock K1 on but man this is such a cringe take.

 

[cardinals2025]

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I will await the explanation for why Joe Burrow, who has career stats and QBR that match Patrick Mahomes…isn’t good enough to win as many games as a game manager like Jalen Hurts, who did absolutely nothing to help the Eagles get to the Superbowl this year.

And it better have nothing to do with the fact that the CIN defense has allowed 25 pts per game since Burrow was drafted. Meanwhile PHI defense has been absolutely dominant both years they went to the Superbowl AND Hurts had the best RB on the planet.

Look at Hurts stats vs LAR and tell me Geno Smith or god forbid Kyler wouldn’t have been able to win that game.

This is the whole point of what JG and Monti are building and it was you guys refuse to see. The question is not about if Kyler can be good enough. JG believes he is better than a game manager obviously but the whole point of this offseason was to take the pressure off of the offense by making the defense a juggernaut.

And wouldn’t you know the best defense Kyler had is when he also played his best.

Burrow is obviously a better QB than Kyler. That is indisputable. But imo he is probably the best QB in the league. Mahomes has never not had a great defense until they got pounded by TB and PHI. He has always had great coaches, GM and offensive talent as well as pretty decent offensive lines up until the superbowl this year.

So when people shake their heads and wonder why Kyler can barely get a .500 record, it is not because he is always choking. It is because he is almost always playing in big games with a defense that is worse than the opponents. Of course he has choked at times, I am not denying that. But you guys just completely ignore context.

Justin Herbert similarily has had this same issue despite being blessed with obvious talent. Last year LAC had the 2nd best defense. They won 11 games.

I don’t buy the arguement that Kyler has a special way of choking unlike every other above average QB who also has struggled to win games cuz the defense and other parts of the franchise are absolutely horrible.

An immature Kyler Murray came to what was frankly a horrible situation when he was drafted by our franchise.

Now every other piece is in place, even MORE than in 2021.

And people are saying we can’t get 10 wins and make the playoffs again with him?

Logically it makes zero sense.

 

[schutd]

Where I am at right now.

youre a legitimate NFL starter? Rad. Jelly. #PWI

 

[schutd]

Is Justin Herbert a disappointment?

His last name is. #PWI

 

[schutd]

Im completely in love with this thread again. I hate all of you for that.

 

[cardinals2025]

It is what it is. Your assertion that it "Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty" is without evidence. Here are the facts:

Murray career pre/post Call of Duty release*:
- pre (37 games): 21-15-1 record (.581), 56 TD, 25 INT (2.24:1), 7.2 y/a, 94.5 passer rating
- post (45 games): 15-30 record (.333), 59 TD, 32 INT (1.84:1), 6.8 y/a, 90.5 passer rating

In another thread, I compared Murray's pre/post CoD stats to those of Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa, and Trevor Lawrence (names suggested by @Mulli). Summary:

Murray's W-L percentage drops by .248 (!), while each of the other three's W-L percentage improves by .047 on average. Murray is by miles the worst of the four.

Muray's TD:INT ratio drops by 0.4, while Darnold's and Tagovailoa's improve by .485 and Lawrence's drops by 0.3. Murray is the worst of the four.

Murray's yards per attempt drops by 0.4. Darnod's increases by 0.3, Tagovailoas's drops by 0.9, and Lawrence's drops by 0.2. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Murray's passer rating drops by 4 points. Darnold's increases by 9.8, Tagovailoa's drops by 5.3, and Lawrence's drops by 2.9. Murray ranks third out of the four.


In my opinion, as the season goes on, opposing defenses study and understand Murray's tendencies A LOT MORE than Murray studies and understands opposing defenses. And the release of Call of Duty, while not the only factor, surely can't help with Murray's study habits.

* 25 Oct 2019, 13 Nov 2020, 5 Nov 2021, 28 Oct 2022, 10 Nov 2023, and 25 Oct 2024

What years are Darnold's stats based on and it really doesn't mean much if Lawrence and Tua are also dropping by a similar amount.

In my opinion, opposing defenses study ALL QB's as the year goes on which is why defenses as a whole play better in the 2nd half of every season.

I bet the games become lower scoring in the 2nd half of the season not just because of increased studying by def coordinators, but because of the weather.

 

[cardinals2025]

It is what it is. Your assertion that it "Doesn’t have to do anything with Call of Duty" is without evidence. Here are the facts:

Murray career pre/post Call of Duty release*:
- pre (37 games): 21-15-1 record (.581), 56 TD, 25 INT (2.24:1), 7.2 y/a, 94.5 passer rating
- post (45 games): 15-30 record (.333), 59 TD, 32 INT (1.84:1), 6.8 y/a, 90.5 passer rating

In another thread, I compared Murray's pre/post CoD stats to those of Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa, and Trevor Lawrence (names suggested by @Mulli). Summary:

Murray's W-L percentage drops by .248 (!), while each of the other three's W-L percentage improves by .047 on average. Murray is by miles the worst of the four.

Muray's TD:INT ratio drops by 0.4, while Darnold's and Tagovailoa's improve by .485 and Lawrence's drops by 0.3. Murray is the worst of the four.

Murray's yards per attempt drops by 0.4. Darnod's increases by 0.3, Tagovailoas's drops by 0.9, and Lawrence's drops by 0.2. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Murray's passer rating drops by 4 points. Darnold's increases by 9.8, Tagovailoa's drops by 5.3, and Lawrence's drops by 2.9. Murray ranks third out of the four.


In my opinion, as the season goes on, opposing defenses study and understand Murray's tendencies A LOT MORE than Murray studies and understands opposing defenses. And the release of Call of Duty, while not the only factor, surely can't help with Murray's study habits.

* 25 Oct 2019, 13 Nov 2020, 5 Nov 2021, 28 Oct 2022, 10 Nov 2023, and 25 Oct 2024

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Here is a better correlation. The QBs that have the better defenses often have the better chance of winning. Especially low scoring games at the end of the season when every def is studying QB's alot more based on the game footage from the 1st half of the season.

Do you know why Joe Burrow has so few 4th quarter comebacks? Because the team is down by too much!

Everything being equal, everyone below Dak on this list is clearly better than him. I only did this back to 2019. If you go back to Dak's rookie year in 2016, he also had 3 dominant defenses to start his career.

But you wouldn't know it with the win %.

 

[oaken1]

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Here is a better correlation. The QBs that have the better defenses often have the better chance of winning. Especially low scoring games at the end of the season when every def is studying QB's alot more based on the game footage from the 1st half of the season.

Do you know why Joe Burrow has so few 4th quarter comebacks? Because the team is down by too much!

Everything being equal, everyone below Dak on this list is clearly better than him. I only did this back to 2019. If you go back to Dak's rookie year in 2016, he also had 3 dominant defenses to start his career.

But you wouldn't know it with the win %.

That's why everyone was so stoked when Dak got his big contract.
We WANT dullus to keep that guy.

 

[cardinals2025]

That's why everyone was so stoked when Dak got his big contract.
We WANT dullus to keep that guy.

This is good evidence that Kyler can hold up even with the worst case scenario of a subpar oline this year.

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[cardinals2025]

Anyone want to comment on this one?

So for Kyler's Career the def is allowing 24.6 pts per game.

Hes got a 44.5% win percentage.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1691533-which-metric-matters-most-when-evaluating-nfl-quarterbacks

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/348218-how-important-is-defensive-support-to-a-quarterback-in-the-postseason

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[Stout]

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I will await the explanation for why Joe Burrow, who has career stats and QBR that match Patrick Mahomes…isn’t good enough to win as many games as a game manager like Jalen Hurts, who did absolutely nothing to help the Eagles get to the Superbowl this year.

And it better have nothing to do with the fact that the CIN defense has allowed 25 pts per game since Burrow was drafted. Meanwhile PHI defense has been absolutely dominant both years they went to the Superbowl AND Hurts had the best RB on the planet.

Look at Hurts stats vs LAR and tell me Geno Smith or god forbid Kyler wouldn’t have been able to win that game.

This is the whole point of what JG and Monti are building and it was you guys refuse to see. The question is not about if Kyler can be good enough. JG believes he is better than a game manager obviously but the whole point of this offseason was to take the pressure off of the offense by making the defense a juggernaut.

And wouldn’t you know the best defense Kyler had is when he also played his best.

Burrow is obviously a better QB than Kyler. That is indisputable. But imo he is probably the best QB in the league. Mahomes has never not had a great defense until they got pounded by TB and PHI. He has always had great coaches, GM and offensive talent as well as pretty decent offensive lines up until the superbowl this year.

So when people shake their heads and wonder why Kyler can barely get a .500 record, it is not because he is always choking. It is because he is almost always playing in big games with a defense that is worse than the opponents. Of course he has choked at times, I am not denying that. But you guys just completely ignore context.

Justin Herbert similarily has had this same issue despite being blessed with obvious talent. Last year LAC had the 2nd best defense. They won 11 games.

I don’t buy the arguement that Kyler has a special way of choking unlike every other above average QB who also has struggled to win games cuz the defense and other parts of the franchise are absolutely horrible.

An immature Kyler Murray came to what was frankly a horrible situation when he was drafted by our franchise.

Now every other piece is in place, even MORE than in 2021.

And people are saying we can’t get 10 wins and make the playoffs again with him?

Logically it makes zero sense.

Kyler as gud as Burro, right? RIGHT???

 

[cardinals2025]

Kyler as gud as Burro, right? RIGHT???

READ.

Burrow is obviously a better QB than Kyler. That is indisputable.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

In my opinion, opposing defenses study ALL QB's as the year goes on which is why defenses as a whole play better in the 2nd half of every season.

then why do some qbs get better as the season goes - or not fall off - you come up with all these reasons as to why kyler struggled after the bye but the first step is acceptance - admitting he has a problem - then and only then can your healing begin

kyler murray is an above average quarterback who hasn't learned how to win big games in the nfl yet - and that's okay - saying it is okay - we are in a safe space - this isn't just kyler's make or break year it's also (as you have eluded to in several threads) his best chance to make the playoffs - the team was so stacked nobody knew who we'd draft

you keep trying to convince us kyler murray is better than we think - you must be new here cuz this is asfn - where minds rarely change but we debate things all the same

 

[DaHilg]

then why do some qbs get better as the season goes - or not fall off - you come up with all these reasons as to why kyler struggled after the bye but the first step is acceptance - admitting he has a problem - then and only then can your healing begin

kyler murray is an above average quarterback who hasn't learned how to win big games in the nfl yet - and that's okay - saying it is okay - we are in a safe space - this isn't just kyler's make or break year it's also (as you have eluded to in several threads) his best chance to make the playoffs - the team was so stacked nobody knew who we'd draft

you keep trying to convince us kyler murray is better than we think - you must be new here - where minds rarely change but we debate things all the same

Good post.. but I wouldn’t say we are stacked. We are still lacking severely top end talent, no quality guards and no #2 WR. We have great depth as a team aside from guard and WR.