OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[82CardsGrad]

I don't see us making the playoffs with Kyler Murray either... you know... like we haven't for 5 of his 6 seasons. That's why continuing to keep him as our QB is not just a punt on next season, but also hurts us in 2026.

I've resigned myself to the fact that Kyler will be here next season...But I really can't imagine what all of his apologists will be saying when he put up another season similar to this year and again, fails to get this team into the post season. Can all of his apologists be so delusional that, even at this point on the calendar next season when it's evident the team will not be playing post-season football, they continue to twist themselves into pretzels as they blame everyone else associated with the team other than Kyler?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Can all of his apologists be so delusional that, even at this point on the calendar next season when it's evident the team will not be playing post-season football, they continue to twist themselves into pretzels as they blame everyone else associated with the team other than Kyler?

Yes, yes, they can and will be that delusional.

 

[Russ Smith]

NIX is already better than Murray, there are only about 30 NFL teams that agree

I'm sure there are some, I don't think it's nearly as many as you think. For one thing, Nix will be 25 in Feb, he's like 2 1/2 years younger than Kyler is. Normally when you're comparing a 6th year guy with a rookie one of the big advantages for the rookie is he's so much younger, but Nix is a VERY old rookie. The implication being he may have a higher floor, but very likely a lower ceiling.

Ask those same 30 NFL teams who would you prefer to run your offense, Sean Payton or Petzing, I'm betting you get 30 Sean Paytons

 

[Russ Smith]

On the weekly cardinals podcast they said the first WR ran an open route and Kyler threw it behind him.

Then they mentioned that the Seahawks talked about the 2nd INT in their postgame. They said the defender came off his own assignment at the last second to cover someone else who messed up. That it was a broken play that should have been a big gain for us. They were talking about it like it was one of the best plays someone on defense has made for them all year.

So in reality, Kyler made two good decisions. One poor throw and one great play at the last second by the defense.

The first one he got baited by the LB. The guy acted like he was leaving the area, Kyler threw it right behind him but he turned and went back and picked it. Good play by him, bad play by Kyler.


The 2nd one Marv was open but Kyler was stepping up because Paris got beat, again, and when he stepped up he didn't get enough on the throw and so he was throwing late, with the ball hanging, and their converted CB playing safety covered a ton of ground and picked it. Great play by the defender, bad throw by Kyler if you're throwing late there the ball HAS to be to the sideline where if Marv can't catch it inbounds, nobody can. He couldn't run there he was about to be hit but he has to be more careful with ball placement

 

[Russ Smith]

LOL I will need more context for this.

I am honestly a huge James Conner fan first and foremost. I think he has always been our best player but I will still defend Kyler until I think he has been given a fair shake.
But I am usually more of a defensive guy. I really love watching Starling Thomas play, considering his lack of size and speed. He was left for dead on the SF practice squad and now he starts for us vs # 1 WRs and probably has done better than Bunting tbh. I think Melton has a bright future as well. Mack Wilson was a steal and Dante Stills has pro-bowl potential in his future.

All of this has proven to me how good of a defensive scheme we have. The fact that it has performed better than Bowles in alot of ways already despite injuries and Darious Robinson even having an impact yet makes me more excited than anything on the offensive side. People get excited when Harrison touches the ball. I get excited that we were averaging 5 sacks a game the last 3 prior to the last one where Geno didn't get touched. That we are somehow 13th in opponents ppg now just seems like a miracle. Defense was left for dead and look how much they have overachieved.

Now we got a ton of $$$ to play with. Just gotta get Budda locked up for a 2 year deal like Conner just got first.

18 tackles. They are utilizing him in a way we could have never imagined. He may lead the league in tackles to finish.

one.note on Starling Thomas, and it surprisd me too, he's the fastest DB we have, HS sprinter

 

[SoonerLou]

Saw something that got me thinking.

Don't be too surprised if Kyler plays really well these last 4 games. Kyler (and Petzing) are not facing MacDonald and Flores caliber DC's.

Not sure it changes the outlook on Kyler and Petzing in 2025, but its possible they find a groove to end the year.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm glad someone, k9?, pointed out 18 tackles by a S is not something to crow about. Props to Budda for making the tackles but if you look at the game the 4 biggest plays by us were the 2 picks by Kyler, the no call PI in the end zone against Marv, and the 50 + yard TD run by Charbonnet.

The Charbonnet run was huge, last drive of the half, 10 point deficit suddenly became 17. That entire play was Budda's fault. He came roariing up from the safety spot, guessed where the ball was going, guessed wrong and the RB cut right into the spot he vacated and 50 yards later it's a 17 point game. That it came on the heels of 2 TD's after Kyler picks just made it wor

Budda made some great plays in that game yes but that was a HUGE mistake, it dramatically changed the game.

 

[Chopper0080]

Of winning anything.

What do you determine as anything? Serious question. For me, 7-10 wins is something. I want better, but the high end of that range is a possible playoff spot and the low end is better than many seasons over the past 10 years. I will take that for 2025 and don't feel like it qualifies as "punting the season".

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure, nobody thinks Minshew would make the team better than Kyler. But if your team insists on running such a conservative offense and spend the 36m difference on some additional talent, perhaps you would have a better overall team. I'm not advocating for that, but I also think at this point the ceiling for Kyler is a 1st round exit and a lot of bad body language.

I really don't want to sign up for either option.

I agree with this but absent of a better option popping up, i think we can win between 7-10 games in 2025 with Kyler and after the season, we can see if any better options emerge at that time.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't see us making the playoffs with Kyler Murray either... you know... like we haven't for 5 of his 6 seasons. That's why continuing to keep him as our QB is not just a punt on next season, but also hurts us in 2026.

Maybe. I know I want to win as many games as possible in 2025 and moving forward. I know Kyler is a better QB than most of the potential options that look to be available next year. Until that changes, I am fine with Kyler in 2025. After 2025, Cardinals can evaluate the QB options and make a move if there is something better. The cap hits for cutting Kyler only become more manageable moving forward.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with this but absent of a better option popping up, i think we can win between 7-10 games in 2025 with Kyler and after the season, we can see if any better options emerge at that time.

And suck up another 36 million dollars on the 2026 cap when we part ways.

Also, I have no idea why you think 10 wins is in range. Kyler’s only cracked that once in 5 years, going on 6 this year. We’re more likely to win 7 games or less than we are more.

Why? Because to win 10 games means winning games when they matter down the stretch and until Kyler can at least win ONE game in those circumstances, there’s no reason he can what’s likely multiple of them to reach 10 by seasons end.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe. I know I want to win as many games as possible in 2025 and moving forward. I know Kyler is a better QB than most of the potential options that look to be available next year. Until that changes, I am fine with Kyler in 2025. After 2025, Cardinals can evaluate the QB options and make a move if there is something better. The cap hits for cutting Kyler only become more manageable moving forward.

Sorry man… I just think this is a massive lack of foresight.

 

[daves]

Not really. If we keep him next year, as you advocate, he'll have a huge cap hit should we move off him in 2026, pretty much guaranteeing he'll have to stay ANOTHER year. Do you really want two more years of KM? No thank you.

If I'm reading OverTheCap correctly, cutting Murray before 1 Jun 2025 incurs a dead money cap hit of $58.5M, while saving "only" $43.3M, with a net loss of $15.2M of cap space in 2025.

Cutting Murray before 1 Jun 2026 incurs a dead money hit of only $17.9M, a savings of $53.2M, for a net gain of $35.3M in cap space in 2026. Seems a lot more realistic.

 

[daves]

And suck up another 36 million dollars on the 2026 cap when we part ways.

You may be right but that's not how it appears on OverTheCap, which says that if Murray is cut before 1 Jun 2026 there's a $17.9M dead money cap charge, but a net $35.3M cap SAVINGS. If that's not accurate, hopefully someone can explain why.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

I'm glad someone, k9?, pointed out 18 tackles by a S is not something to crow about. Props to Budda for making the tackles but if you look at the game the 4 biggest plays by us were the 2 picks by Kyler, the no call PI in the end zone against Marv, and the 50 + yard TD run by Charbonnet.

The Charbonnet run was huge, last drive of the half, 10 point deficit suddenly became 17. That entire play was Budda's fault. He came roariing up from the safety spot, guessed where the ball was going, guessed wrong and the RB cut right into the spot he vacated and 50 yards later it's a 17 point game. That it came on the heels of 2 TD's after Kyler picks just made it wor

Budda made some great plays in that game yes but that was a HUGE mistake, it dramatically changed the game.

budda is best at reading plays - he excels when his isn't in pass pro - when he's free to diagnose and/or blitz at will - i wish we'd do it more - he'd have more tackles - some behind the line of scrimmage

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Problem is, I think that if we keep him in 2025 we guarantee a large chunk of his 2026 hit. He has to go in 2025.

That’s my point. It’s why I seriously consider jettisoning Kyler before 2025. If kylers not the guy, keep 2026 clean.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know… I know…. “It’s never Kyler’s fault.”

I wondered how long the kyler Stans would take to back off their dose of kyler reality. Truth be told I thought it would take a false hope w over a dreck pats team. Clearly I underestimated the power of Panicman Checkdownberg manic love delirium.

 

[WisconsinCard]

That’s my point. It’s why I seriously consider jettisoning Kyler before 2025. If kylers not the guy, keep 2026 clean.

If the decision is made to move forward without Kyler then you need to do it after this season. No reason to go forward if they have deemed him a bust.

My thoughts are they'll try and build the defense this year and keep Kyler. They'll just try to get him to be Trent Dilfer with a better arm.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

On the weekly cardinals podcast they said the first WR ran an open route and Kyler threw it behind him.

Then they mentioned that the Seahawks talked about the 2nd INT in their postgame. They said the defender came off his own assignment at the last second to cover someone else who messed up. That it was a broken play that should have been a big gain for us. They were talking about it like it was one of the best plays someone on defense has made for them all year.

So in reality, Kyler made two good decisions. One poor throw and one great play at the last second by the defense.

Holy crap we got another one! But this one is deeper than 602 or crimson. Welcome to the board.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Personally, I am done punting seasons.

What do you think we’re doing sticking with kyler?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

wanting to keep Kyler around says you’re not.

Borg

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would rather be between 7 and 10 wins over the next season or two than winning 4 games with a 3rd round rookie draft pick (I am only using this option because you had mentioned it). I am done tanking. I am done with being one of the worst franchises in football and having historically bad season wins over multiple years. I want better than Kyler, but I recognize that many teams have traded up from the middle of the first round to get a QB that they really want. I am ok being patient for that opportunity.

A) I said third round rookie, not cheese.

B) you’re stumping for Fischer rams purgatory.

C) that’s the worst type of punting imo

D) you’re entitled to want mediocrity.

 

[gimpy]

Well, we are one win away from 7 wins this year with 4 left to play, so, I would hope next year we would be closer to the 10(+) win season than the 7 wins. With or without k1.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He is inarguably a top 20 QB. That is not "punting" a season.

It is if you think it’s a wasted season. Which I think it would be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bro this is deranged.

He makes 602 look reasonable.