Ossenfort’s Performance

Harry

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Keep in mind all that was required of him was to fix a franchise that last won the top prize in 1947, when BTW they were owned by the same family. How hard could that be? I have to chuckle about people thinking he should fix this in 3 years. How many GMs have been with the Cards and failed since 1947? I didn’t waste the time to count them; it’s a lot. Remember even in their Super Bowl year the Cards regular season record was 9-7.

I was asked to review his drafts. I’m going to take a broader view and review his overall performance. While the jury is still out I’ve already posted I think Gannon was as a good a choice as was practically available. Don’t lose sight of the fact that top people aren’t clamoring to work for Bidwill. Just ask Reid and Payton. The Cards will have to develop a coach. Ken Blanchard author of the book One Minute Manager, likens the Cardinal fans’ position to looking for a Sea World performer. You go out in small boat, spot an Orca, hold a rod out above the water and shout jump. If you can’t hire it; you have to develop it.

The second big indictment of Ossenfort was letting Allen and Murphy leave via free agency. While I think Ossenfort was in a tough spot of not knowing whose evaluation to trust, I accept it was indeed a mistake to let those players leave. I don’t believe it had a big impact on the rebuild, but they’ve both proven to be quality NFL players.

I’m not going to list them but for the most part Ossenfort’s free agent signings have been better than average. Some complain he should have signed more players, but you can only integrate so many players and have effective participation. He’s signed a big bunch of people. He hasn’t missed on many substantial choices, though injuries skewed his results.

Draft-wise taking them one year at a time, 2025 saw all 7 picks essentially make the roster. With Nolen out it’s hard to fully assess the 2025 impact. Johnson and Burch look like exceptional choices. I think it will at least be a solid draft. If Nolen hits it will be outstanding. There weren’t enough picks to fix everything, but focusing on the side of the ball that has the best coaching, makes sense to me.

In 2024 I would have traded some late picks. They had too many. Hard to coach up that many players. I know I will deviate from the board on this part of my review. I think it’s fair to say other WRs have outplayed Harrison, though I do believe some played in better circumstances. Nabers, though now injured, has been great without a doubt. Not certain how he’d have done in AZ, but likely better than Harrison’s done. I certainly haven’t given up on Harrison. I still maintain Harrison was the consensus choice for that pick. Robinson’s injury clearly set him back. He may just now be getting where he should have been last year. Late round 1 can often be a tricky place to grab a DL. Also I agree with some others; he may really be better at DE. Too soon to make a good call about him, but now with a mystery injury; who knows. Again people must expect GMs to be psychic. Robinson played 49 games in college with excellent stats that indicated aggression. He suffered no major injuries, being consistently healthy. Just how was Ossenfort supposed to predict his injury woes? BTW the injury concern is why Benson slid to round three though he was most often ranked the number one RB. At Oregon Benson had a major knee injury, tearing his ACL & MCL. In 2 years at FSU he was never significantly injured despite carrying the ball 300 times. I haven’t seen any revised stats but it used to be a torn ACL was about 15% likely to recur. Drafting him could fairly be called a reasonable gamble.

Round 2 was Melton and when playing with the normal pairings he looked solid. He could use some safety help, like many corners. I think Benson was a good choice in round 3 though risky as I said above. He needs a fair shot with the proper running schemes. Adams looks like a reach at this stage. I like Reiman, especially on a run-first team. DTD was a great pick. He should start ahead of Thompson in my opinion. Thomas looked like an okay gamble for a round 5 pick, but the Cards now simply have better rushers. Jones is still distant from an impact player. Injuries haven’t helped. Palmer and Davis were just bodies. This is at least an average draft and if I’m right about player development it could end up as very good. It’s a pointless exercise IMO to pick one player drafted after a specific pick and say the Cards should have picked that player. You could do that with virtually any draft.

2023 saw the Cards get a decent if not flashy LT in Johnson. I never liked Gaines, but the Cards seem to. Ojulari has been a hard luck injury victim who flashed some when he got on the field. Tune had the raw talent but never exhibited enough composure. Like Murray he was damaged by poor line play. No clue on Robinson. Clark has proven to be at least a decent backup CB now that he’s been allowed to play. This was a first draft by a new GM who likely didn’t have his preferred scouting and evaluation staff in place. It’s like working in the dark. Likely a somewhat below average result.

Drafting is tough. The move for a college player to the NFL is often challenging. Rarely after the top 15 picks do all a team’s scouts agree on a pick. Even with the right pick, coaching and injury can destroy the best strategies. Look at the mocks from former scouts and GMs. They never agree beyond sometimes the early picks. I think Ossenfort’s drafts have improved from year to year. I’m anxious to see what he does next year. Improvement is the primary objective if the latest draft is sound.

I’m not certain there’s a magic number but we used to say if half your picks make the 53 that’s a good draft. Though I admit the Cards started with a very weak roster. Of course also if you only hit on the bottom picks, that’s obviously not good. I think Ossenfort overall has been reasonably successful.

When he arrived in Arizona the Cards were in total disarray roster-wise. They still have obvious gaps, but you can only fix so much in 3 years. I know that seems like a long time to fans, but it’s not a full run in the NFL. I look at a 5 year period if you’re starting from near zero, especially for a first time GM. I agree that if a team is consistently going backwards, unless they suffer severe injuries, it’s a cause for concern. I think Ossenfort has moved the team forward despite some coaching issues. This is clearly a better roster than the one he inherited. He hasn’t fixed everything but patience is still a virtue.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I’m not going to list them but for the most part Ossenfort’s free agent signings have been better than average.
An assertion without evidence. Let's judge these classes year by year:

2023:
Good:
Froholdt - good player, mid range starter
Hernandez - decent signing - average starter

Average or Worse:
Kyzir White - ok stopgap, barely an NFL player
Josh Woods - who?
Collier - non impact barely rotation level player
Pascal - zero impact

Is this a better than average FA? It better be, because 2024...oof

2024:
Justin Jones
SMB
DJ Dallas
Bilal Nichols
Jonah Williams

This is a TERRIBLE FA class. Zero significant contributors, and Nichols/Jones have been a total waste.

2025:
Sweat - overpaid but somewhat productive
Tomlinson - mostly invisible

Anyone else I'm missing here who is making an actual impact?

Three years of FA and this is what you consider better than average in FA?
 
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Harry

Harry

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An assertion without evidence. Let's judge these classes year by year:

2023:
Good:
Froholdt - good player, mid range starter
Hernandez - decent signing - average starter

Average or Worse:
Kyzir White - ok stopgap, barely an NFL player
Josh Woods - who?
Collier - non impact barely rotation level player
Pascal - zero impact

Is this a better than average FA? It better be, because 2024...oof

2024:
Justin Jones
SMB
DJ Dallas
Bilal Nichols
Jonah Williams

This is a TERRIBLE FA class. Zero significant contributors, and Nichols/Jones have been a total waste.

2025:
Sweat - overpaid but somewhat productive
Tomlinson - mostly invisible

Anyone else I'm missing here who is making an actual impact?

Three years of FA and this is what you consider better than average in FA?
Wow do we see things differently. You’re missing Campbell who’s tied with Sweat for 12th in the league for sacks. Mack Wilson has been very good. He’s tied for 13th in the league for total tackles and he’s just learning the defense. As to the ones you mentioned. Williams played well before his injury last season. He’s not the same player now. Tomlinson has been decent against the run IMO. Dallas was signed as a returner and was solid but got squeezed out. Jones and Nichols were both injured, though I didn’t like their injury history. SMB showed potential and would have competed to start this season. They got their monies’ worth out of Dortch. Beachum has been a solid backup. Gillikin has been an exceptional punter. For a team focusing on improving through the draft, I think this is decent. No big expensive misses that plagued other teams.
 
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Chopper0080

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everybody just loves fro - unless we're taliking about monti - then fro is mid jag ' same with hernandez
I think Froholdt is the exact type of FA signing I expect from a GM who wants to build through the draft. I liked Evan Brown initially as well, but for a team that wants to build the lines, being unable to acquire a better player to replace him is a problem.
 

Stout

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Wow do we see things differently. You’re missing Campbell who’s tied with Sweat for 12th in the league for sacks. Mack Wilson has been very good. He’s tied for 13th in the league for total tackles and he’s just learning the defense. As to the ones you mentioned. Williams played well before his injury last season. He’s not the same player now. Tomlinson has been decent against the run IMO. Dallas was signed as a returner and was solid but got squeezed out. Jones and Nichols were both injured, though I didn’t like their injury history. SMB showed potential and would have competed to start this season. They got their monies’ worth out of Dortch. Beachum has been a solid backup. Gillikin has been an exceptional punter. For a team focusing on improving through the draft, I think this is decent. No big expensive misses that plagued other teams.
While sometimes he has been decent in "belly of the roster" moves, last year's FA was an unmitigated dumpster fire. So so far a decent job, an unforgivably bad job, and an undecided because we're only four games in but not looking good job, in FA classes. That's not better than average. That's bad. Couple that with being subpar in the draft, and...well, we see the results.

Keep in mind, Harry, we have to find Big Johns somewhere. Which ones has he brought into the team?
 

Chopper0080

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Wow do we see things differently. You’re missing Campbell who’s tied with Sweat for 12th in the league for sacks. Mack Wilson has been very good. He’s tied for 13th in the league for total tackles and he’s just learning the defense. As to the ones you mentioned. Williams played well before his injury last season. He’s not the same player now. Tomlinson has been decent against the run IMO. Dallas was signed as a returner and was solid but got squeezed out. Jones and Nichols were both injured, though I didn’t like their injury history. SMB showed potential and would have competed to start this season. They got their monies’ worth out of Dortch. Beachum has been a solid backup. Gillikin has been an exceptional punter. For a team focusing on improving through the draft, I think this is decent. No big expensive misses that plagued other teams.
in year 3...

What is better?
TE room is very deep.
EDGE group is league average.
CB and S have talent and depth.

What is same or worse?
QB
No long term RB. Starter is 29.
WR room is still below league average.
OL is mostly the same.
DL Best players are both over 30. No draft picks have shown out.
ILB is mostly the same. 1 player and then ?

In 2025, will the Cardinals have more than 1 Pro Bowl player? Will they have 1 All Pro player? Does the team have an identity? Are they able to execute that identity?
 

Stout

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in year 3...

What is better?
TE room is very deep.
EDGE group is league average.
CB and S have talent and depth.

What is same or worse?
QB
No long term RB. Starter is 29.
WR room is still below league average.
OL is mostly the same.
DL Best players are both over 30. No draft picks have shown out.
ILB is mostly the same. 1 player and then ?
Preach. You used to read a lot of people putting posters who criticized Monti on absolute blast. You don't read that as much as they do the Homer Simpson/hedges routine nowadays.
 

football karma

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my criticism of Monti:

IF as a GM you know that Kyler is your QB for 2025 -- then:

you should know that more than most QBs -- he is impacted by up the gut pressure far, far more than edge pressure. This is amplified by the fact that teams regularly try to do the contain rush to keep him in the pocket. This puts an emphasis on the three interior OL positions. With a good starter in Will Hernandez as a ? due to an ACL and what you saw from Isiah Adams -- I would have expected more urgency in getting a top notch guard to add to the mix. Instead we got Jake Curhan.

Further: a good GM would have recognized that too much pressure was put on MHJ to step in and be a No 1 WR without a better / more experienced #2. Adding some speed to an offense where the HC wants "shots" would have helped as well. We got NO CHANGES.
 

Jay Cardinal

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An assertion without evidence. Let's judge these classes year by year:

2023:
Good:
Froholdt - good player, mid range starter
Hernandez - decent signing - average starter

Average or Worse:
Kyzir White - ok stopgap, barely an NFL player
Josh Woods - who?
Collier - non impact barely rotation level player
Pascal - zero impact

Is this a better than average FA? It better be, because 2024...oof

2024:
Justin Jones
SMB
DJ Dallas
Bilal Nichols
Jonah Williams

This is a TERRIBLE FA class. Zero significant contributors, and Nichols/Jones have been a total waste.

2025:
Sweat - overpaid but somewhat productive
Tomlinson - mostly invisible

Anyone else I'm missing here who is making an actual impact?

Three years of FA and this is what you consider better than average in FA?
I was thinking the D line turn around was fantastic this year. Tomlinson, Campbell and Sweat — I would give them all an A grade.
 

cardpa

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The thing I have to chuckle at is how easy posters ridicule how Monti hasn't brought in such and such or made a big splash in FA. I think it is sometimes forgotten that it takes two to tangle in FA.

A free agent has to want to come to this team and when you consider who the owner is and how the facilities rank in the NFL among other things, Monti is somewhat behind the eight ball in attracting top FAs to Arizona. When you are getting D and F ratings on various things and another team offering similar money are getting A, B or even C ratings it's tough to compete with that.

You can be sure players talk and I suspect that is also a factor when a FA is looking for a new place to play.

I'm not saying Monti has been great, not nearly however we have to acknowledge the limitations he is dealing with.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I was thinking the D line turn around was fantastic this year. Tomlinson, Campbell and Sweat — I would give them all an A grade.
Has Tomlinson contributed anything? Calais is the MVP of the D (and we should never have let him go in the first place), but Sweat has been a solid B.
 

Chopper0080

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The thing I have to chuckle at is how easy posters ridicule how Monti hasn't brought in such and such or made a big splash in FA. I think it is sometimes forgotten that it takes two to tangle in FA.

A free agent has to want to come to this team and when you consider who the owner is and how the facilities rank in the NFL among other things, Monti is somewhat behind the eight ball in attracting top FAs to Arizona. When you are getting D and F ratings on various things and another team offering similar money are getting A, B or even C ratings it's tough to compete with that.

You can be sure players talk and I suspect that is also a factor when a FA is looking for a new place to play.

I'm not saying Monti has been great, not nearly however we have to acknowledge the limitations he is dealing with.
It's a results business, not an excuse business. It's up to Monti to figure it out because that's his job.
 

Chopper0080

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The positive outlook for Monti is if

1 - Jonah Williams rounds into form, and is a viable extension option.

2 - Nolen, DRob, Jones and Nichols all look decent and finish the year healthy.

3 - Benson comes back healthy and looks good.

That basically leaves you with a manageable roster that can be upgraded instead of just having to replace what you lose very year.
 

Cheesebeef

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The positive outlook for Monti is if

1 - Jonah Williams rounds into form, and is a viable extension option.

2 - Nolen, DRob, Jones and Nichols all look decent and finish the year healthy.

3 - Benson comes back healthy and looks good.

That basically leaves you with a manageable roster that can be upgraded instead of just having to replace what you lose very year.
I never really understood the Jonah Williams signing. An average at best RT from a terrible offensive linemen was something to tour? Yay.

The o-line was very good without him most of last year and struggled a little more with him back and he’s been a sieve this year. That’s a mark down for Monti if anything for me.
 
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Harry

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in year 3...

What is better?
TE room is very deep.
EDGE group is league average.
CB and S have talent and depth.

What is same or worse?
QB
No long term RB. Starter is 29.
WR room is still below league average.
OL is mostly the same.
DL Best players are both over 30. No draft picks have shown out.
ILB is mostly the same. 1 player and then ?

In 2025, will the Cardinals have more than 1 Pro Bowl player? Will they have 1 All Pro player? Does the team have an identity? Are they able to execute that identity?
I like Brissett, don’t need late round rookie QB
Stills is decent, need one more inside presence
RB was good before injury, now a concern
OL major concern
WR major concern
I think next year’s draft is offense, like this year was defense
ILB still an open issue. Wilson has surprised me. ADG is interesting.
Dline & Oline free agent group is interesting
Every team has weaknesses. This team is close enough a solid offseason could fix most everything.
 

Cheesebeef

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Every team has weaknesses. This team is close enough a solid offseason could fix most everything.
Good grief… you said the same thing LAST offseason.

We have GAPING holes on the O-line at G and RT and another G could use an upgrade. We will have a GAPING hole on the D-Line when Calais retires, we still have massive holes at ILB and one OLB and only have one CB we can kinda depend on who’s okay (Melton). Throw in no #2 or #3 WR and all of that is going to get solved in another offseason when they have had THREE offseasons to solve those positions already?
 

Chopper0080

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I never really understood the Jonah Williams signing. An average at best RT from a terrible offensive linemen was something to tour? Yay.

The o-line was very good without him most of last year and struggled a little more with him back and he’s been a sieve this year. That’s a mark down for Monti if anything for me.
I thought he played well in Cincy. I also think you couldn't just count on Beachum. The offensive line needs more talent for sure.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Then your ass better be nails at the draft.

And he hasn’t been.
It's not like we get bonus points for having horrible ownership. Monti can and should be judged by how he does vs. his peers.

You have to have a lot of faith to believe that what is being put together right now is the next great Cardinals roster.
 

Chopper0080

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I like Brissett, don’t need late round rookie QB
Stills is decent, need one more inside presence
RB was good before injury, now a concern
OL major concern
WR major concern
I think next year’s draft is offense, like this year was defense
ILB still an open issue. Wilson has surprised me. ADG is interesting.
Dline & Oline free agent group is interesting
Every team has weaknesses. This team is close enough a solid offseason could fix most everything.
I posted a couple things that need to go right over the rest of the season for Monti to have an ability to improve the roster next offseason.
 
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Harry

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Good grief… you said the same thing LAST offseason.

We have GAPING holes on the O-line at G and RT and another G could use an upgrade. We will have a GAPING hole on the D-Line when Calais retires, we still have massive holes at ILB and one OLB and only have one CB we can kinda depend on who’s okay (Melton). Throw in no #2 or #3 WR and all of that is going to get solved in another offseason when they have had THREE offseasons to solve those positions already?
Give me the quote please. I don’t think I said they could fix both sides of the ball in one offseason. I will admit last year’s offense was around top 10. Didn’t expect this much drop with a decent schedule. I did think the D would be strong and the 2 combined could contend for the playoffs. The collapse of the offense caught me off guard and means they likely aren’t contenders.
 
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Harry

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I posted a couple things that need to go right over the rest of the season for Monti to have an ability to improve the roster next offseason.
Saw it. Certainly would be helpful. You should post more. I going to have to back off some now thst I’ve covered all the team aspects. I have not much to add. You need to post more, especially longer, analytic pieces.
 

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