Nitpicking Nick Bosa

[Mainstreet]

Who knows. Can he get in better shape so that you don't have to pull him off the field so often? Will he stay in shape once he has some success? Those are questions you have to ask for any 1st round DT, let alone a potential 1st overall DT. Can he destroy an offensive gameplan? Because that's what you need from any 1st overall pick on defense.

Bosa has other question marks. His ceiling seems capped, but looks like he will still be a good pro. Imo a safer bet than Quinnen. If we go defense with the 1st overall pick, I tend towards Bosa. Outstanding technician who will earn his sacks, especially if he starts his career across from an All-Pro like Chandler Jones and learning from a future HoFer in Suggs. Being close to his brother who knows a thing or two about pass rushing won't hurt either. Will Nick Bosa be an All-Pro though? Will he affect the offensive gameplan? That's what you shoot for with the 1st overall pick.

Being safe with your 1st overall pick is one thing, but the capped upside should make us explore other options closely. Remember how many "safe" 1st round picks in recent years have underachieved or busted. In this case, you not just missed on a high ceiling player, but also on the expected "safe floor". It's really tough to find the right balance. If we are 100% sure about Bosa or Quinnen, we should go ahead and select one of them. However, will they ever be game changers? Kyler Murray is without a doubt a riskier prospect than Bosa, although the risk gets way overblown imo because of one or two inches. You can't teach accuracy Keim says. Athleticism obviously as well. We don't need to discuss who of all these top prospects has the highest ceiling and which position is the most important on the field. That's my point. If we evaluate that Bosa (or Quinnen) is a slam dunk with a high floor and great upside that can be achieved realistically, just go for it. However, if there are questions about them fulfilling their potential, you know who the pick should be...

I think every pick has question marks. The idea of drafting Bosa because of his pass rush abilities excite me along with Chandler Jones. However, I think Williams can anchor the Cardinals defensive line which is why I consider him a safe pick.

If I were going to go for pure upside I like Murray but I don't think it is a smart idea to give up on Rosen. The Cardinals would likely regret it especially if Murray doesn't live up to expectations. This is why I have always been a proponent of the Cardinals keeping Rosen until they know for sure who is their QBOTF.

If the Cardinals have question marks who they should draft at #1... trade down.

 

[BW52]

,Who says his ceiling is capped? Who`s to say with his talent and work ethic he can`t get even better?
athleticism is going to make Murray make better reads,get passing lanes ,handle pressure in the NFL?Murray will be facing pressure from the best in the world every week chasing him and Coaches scheming to counter his "all_world legendary transcendent Greaqtest college QBOAT" skills.Asfor his aqccuracy..he won`t be throwing against BIG12 defenses will he?It is a risk that is not worth taking by drafting Murray for those reasons and the fact that we have no real idea how Rosen will do in a better situation.

 

[BW52]

,Who says his ceiling is capped? Who`s to say with his talent and work ethic he can`t get even better?
athleticism is going to make Murray make better reads,get passing lanes ,handle pressure in the NFL?Murray will be facing pressure from the best in the world every week chasing him and Coaches scheming to counter his "all_world legendary transcendent Greaqtest college QBOAT" skills.Asfor his aqccuracy..he won`t be throwing against BIG12 defenses will he?It is a risk that is not worth taking by drafting Murray for those reasons and the fact that we have no real idea how Rosen will do in a better situation.

 

[Cardinal]

Bosa 33 inch arms
Q.Williams 33 and 1/4 inch arms
Josh Allen 33and 1/2 inch arms
Ed Oliver 31 and 3/4 arms

So if Bosa had shorts arms what does that make Ed Oliver ( T-Rex arms?)

The huge difference is that Ed Oliver isn’t an edge rusher. He’s an interior DT.

Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins have 32 inch arms.

 

[oaken1]

I have been looking at williams more mostly because I didnt like seeing him get gassed so easily.

I hate to say this out loud but the kid kinda reminds me of Reggie White in both play and demeanor.
If he were to continue that, we could do far worse than having the next minister of defense on the team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Willie McGinest on NFL network last night said he wouldn’t even take Bosa in the top 5… He said he looks a lot deeper into prospects and just doesn’t see him as a number one pick material...

He reminds me a bit of Chris Long. You know he is not going to be a bust, but he also doesn't look like a 12+ sack per year guy with his skillset.

 

[Chopper0080]

I have been looking at williams more mostly because I didnt like seeing him get gassed so easily.

I hate to say this out loud but the kid kinda reminds me of Reggie White in both play and demeanor.
If he were to continue that, we could do far worse than having the next minister of defense on the team.

Quinnen Williams is a really good player who will only be better when he is able to play a NFL game that has less snaps to manage.

I like him and Bosa equally at #1. I really don't care which one they go with.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Bosa 33 inch arms
Q.Williams 33 and 1/4 inch arms
Josh Allen 33and 1/2 inch arms
Ed Oliver 31 and 3/4 arms

So if Bosa had shorts arms what does that make Ed Oliver ( T-Rex arms?)

Actually yes. Ed Oliver has midget arms.

34 and up is the ideal, but it's not a huge issue. Just puts him at a slight disadvantage against pass blockers with longer arms.

For reference, Joe Thomas had 33 inch arms and he was considered short armed.

My point of mentioning his arm length is that he has below desired traits in a number of categories. Bosa passes the eyeball test though, even though he probably has below average production for a top pass rusher.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Quinnen Williams is a really good player who will only be better when he is able to play a NFL game that has less snaps to manage.

I like him and Bosa equally at #1. I really don't care which one they go with.

I would prefer Quinnen Williams because if you look at production and measurables, I think Williams has a better chance to be an elite player. I'm starting to sour on Bosa the more I read and watch.

 

[BW52]

I still like Bosa as my choice.Q.Williams close second.No other options for consideration IMHO.

 

[JeffGollin]

Evaluating defensive front seven players, I tend to zero in on few traits -

Production (number of sacks, tackles etc.)

A low, quick outside pass rush

Proverbial "non-stop motor

Tackling reliability

Durability

Size/Speed ratio

Deficiency re any one factor tends to scare me off - i.e. a Joe All Star who doesn't go hard on every snap drops like a stone on my board.

 

[BW52]

Evaluating defensive front seven players, I tend to zero in on few traits -

Production (number of sacks, tackles etc.)

A low, quick outside pass rush

Proverbial "non-stop motor

Tackling reliability

Durability

Size/Speed ratio

Deficiency re any one factor tends to scare me off - i.e. a Joe All Star who doesn't go hard on every snap drops like a stone on my board.

When you find "Superman" let us know Jeff.Don`t know of a whole lot of guys that check every category without some question.
Good checklist for sure.

 

[oaken1]

Evaluating defensive front seven players, I tend to zero in on few traits -

Production (number of sacks, tackles etc.)

A low, quick outside pass rush

Proverbial "non-stop motor

Tackling reliability

Durability

Size/Speed ratio

Deficiency re any one factor tends to scare me off - i.e. a Joe All Star who doesn't go hard on every snap drops like a stone on my board.

So...DTs and MLBs automatically fail since they dont have that outside pass rush?...

Otherwise QWilliams fits the other traits. His biggest knock is getting gassed but when he is on the field he is balls out and disruptive

 

[Dr. Jones]

He reminds me a bit of Chris Long. You know he is not going to be a bust, but he also doesn't look like a 12+ sack per year guy with his skillset.

You know what..... they are almost the same from a combine perspective.

Long had the elite level 10yd split at 1.53 (Bosa was good but not great @ 1.60)

Bosa & Long have similar 40's and vert's also.
Long's broad jump was 8 inches further than Bosa.
And Longs shuttles were faster as well.

For me though...... Joey is the best comp. But Long is damn close.

 

[Solar7]

I’ve been 100% Bosa, but I think some of the concerns are valid. Still, he performed at the Combine, has a great pedigree, and I feel confident about his production knowing how OSU used him with other NFL players on the roster. He’s been more or less at the top of the conversation for more than a year.

But, I’ve warmed up to Q, even though I’m worried his body looks a little soft.

For as much hate as I give Murray, he’s in the top 3 of guys I’d accept as our #1. Anyone else better be accompanied with a trade down.

 

[DVontel]

I think every pick has question marks. The idea of drafting Bosa because of his pass rush abilities excite me along with Chandler Jones. However, I think Williams can anchor the Cardinals defensive line which is why I consider him a safe pick.

If I were going to go for pure upside I like Murray but I don't think it is a smart idea to give up on Rosen. The Cardinals would likely regret it especially if Murray doesn't live up to expectations. This is why I have always been a proponent of the Cardinals keeping Rosen until they know for sure who is their QBOTF.

If the Cardinals have question marks who they should draft at #1... trade down.

I’m trying to figure out how this makes sense.

How would this happened? 2 QB system like it’s college?

 

[DVontel]

I’ve been 100% Bosa, but I think some of the concerns are valid. Still, he performed at the Combine, has a great pedigree, and I feel confident about his production knowing how OSU used him with other NFL players on the roster. He’s been more or less at the top of the conversation for more than a year.

But, I’ve warmed up to Q, even though I’m worried his body looks a little soft.

For as much hate as I give Murray, he’s in the top 3 of guys I’d accept as our #1. Anyone else better be accompanied with a trade down.

Yea, I’d rather draft any of the 3 than trade down by far.

 

[Jetstream Green]

For me, Q.Williams or Ed Oliver as our first pick right now... key words are 'right now' lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those are legit concerns but in his defense:
This was going to be his big sack year. When you look at all the DL talent that OSU has put on the field, the number of plays/playing time was hard fought. They had Joey Bosa, Tyquan Lewis, Jaylon Holmes, etc. all guys drafted into the NFL.

With his 40 time, look at the 10 yard split. It was among the fastest. Also look at his agility drill times. They were WR like.

I don't know why he didn't work out but he did at the combine. Murray did neither.

You're right, he's not going be a 300 pounder and he may be maxed out but he'll get stronger and keep his quickness.

“This was going to be his big sack year”


Man I read the whole post but I just can’t get past that sentence. It’s got to be the worst argument in favor of any player I’ve ever seen. Truth is, Bosa has some huge holes in his resume. His fault or not, they exist. He is far from the “safe” pick everyone makes him out to be. Like your incredible sentence a lot of what people are basing their support of Bosa on is a combination of:

1. Flashes in limited snaps
2. PURE conjecture
3. Underwear olympics.
4. Family

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boss seems like safely hitting a double. Upside is much bigger with Williams who could be a complete wrecking ball in the middle and Murray who could just create weekly nightmares for opposing DCs.

The more I think about it, the more I lean against Bosa and to either one of Williams/Murray simply because of their home-run potential. With KK we're in all or nothing territory, IMO.

 

[NittanyCard]

Sure glad you guys don’t run the front office Quinnen Williams will be a bust for where he’s stated to go at top 3.

Might end up decent but definitely not top 3 and definitely not 1st overall good.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Boss seems like safely hitting a double. Upside is much bigger with Williams who could be a complete wrecking ball in the middle and Murray who could just create weekly nightmares for opposing DCs.

The more I think about it, the more I lean against Bosa and to either one of Williams/Murray simply because of their home-run potential. With KK we're in all or nothing territory, IMO.

Great summation of my thoughts. All or Nothing. No risk it, No biscuit.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Sure glad you guys don’t run the front office Quinnen Williams will be a bust for where he’s stated to go at top 3.

Might end up decent but definitely not top 3 and definitely not 1st overall good.

Is this a comment based on his outstanding tape? Or his outstanding combine workout? Or both?

 

[BW52]

“This was going to be his big sack year”


Man I read the whole post but I just can’t get past that sentence. It’s got to be the worst argument in favor of any player I’ve ever seen. Truth is, Bosa has some huge holes in his resume. His fault or not, they exist. He is far from the “safe” pick everyone makes him out to be. Like your incredible sentence a lot of what people are basing their support of Bosa on is a combination of:

1. Flashes in limited snaps
2. PURE conjecture
3. Underwear olympics.
4. Family

He has flashed in limited snaps.
He has incredible work ethic.
Great technique
Very good strength
Nonstop motor
Relentless.
Very good run defender
Fairly athletic .
Those factors play in making him my choice.As for the underwear Olympics
He performed there instead of waiting for ProDay(where Murray refused to run probably because of weight Gain).
Speculation.....projection.....isn't that true for every prospect.
Family.....that means Bosa has actual family with real knowledge and experience to refer to.
yes he has flaws as do All the potential picks....Pretending any of the draft picks are perfect or "transcendent" is speculation .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Willie McGinest on NFL network last night said he wouldn’t even take Bosa in the top 5… He said he looks a lot deeper into prospects and just doesn’t see him as a number one pick material...

Honestly I think we got the #1 pick in a bad year. Feels a lot like the Russell Maryland #1 pick year.