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That clippers logo is unrecognizable. In fact I dont even understand it, looks like a C and a compass rose or even a cruise ship.

Some random thoughts.

IMO, the logos of the Clippers, Nuggets, Pelicans, and Trail Blazers need some work.

In the East, the same thought occurs about the Raptors and Wizards logos.

I always think of Pac-Man when I see the Hawks logo.
 

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Some random thoughts.

IMO, the logos of the Clippers, Nuggets, Pelicans, and Trail Blazers need some work.

In the East, the same thought occurs about the Raptors and Wizards logos.

I always think of Pac-Man when I see the Hawks logo.

I'm glad I'm not alone on the Hawks logo. I really liked their late 90's or early 00's bird logo.

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I wish the Wizards went back to Bullets. I like the Raptors though. They've been one of my favorite logos since inception.
 
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I'm glad I'm not alone on the Hawks logo. I really liked their late 90's or early 00's bird logo.

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I wish the Wizards went back to Bullets. I like the Raptors though. They've been one of my favorite logos since inception.

I like the above logo for the Hawks. Too bad they are not using it now.

A big red and black ball didn't help me readily identify the team. I can see why the Wizards went away from the Bullets, but their logo leaves me wondering.
 
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Amir Coffey agrees to sign with the Bucks. There are still some quality players out there.

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The Pacers have never had a player make 1st team all-NBA:
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Reggie Miller is an obvious head scratcher until you remember MJ was dominating at that time but MJ missed 2-3 years because of baseball. Then the early 2000's with Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest were both fantastic.

Looked up Artest and he was only an All-Star once, which is wild. That was 2003-04 season when he won DPOY and was 3rd team, his only All-NBA appearance. Interestingly Sam Cassell made All-NBA 2nd team that year.

Jermaine was a 6 time All-Star and 3 time All-NBA. Went 3rd team in 02 and 03 and 2nd team in 04.

Halliburton would be a favorite if he didn't get hurt next season. Shame.
 
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The Heat trade Haywood Highsmith and a second round pick to the Nets who absorb his contract.

About the only way the Suns can improve their team is via trade or free agency.

The extensions of Allen and O'Neale could haunt them.

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The Heat trade Haywood Highsmith and a second round pick to the Nets who absorb his contract.

About the only way the Suns can improve their team is via trade or free agency.

The extensions of Allen and O'Neale could haunt them.

I think those are so far down the list of bad decisions that they're not a real issue. We'll be lucky to compete for a play-in spot this year and that's another year off their deals. The dead money going to Beal and Little is much worse. If we still have Royce and Grayson at this time next year then maybe it's time to call those bad decisions but they're making close to the MLE and that should make them moveable as teams suffer injuries and strengthen their squads for the postseason. That's where I expect to see deals involving them. They could bring back young guys who fit with the new young core of Green, Maluach, and Dunn.
 

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Reggie Miller is an obvious head scratcher until you remember MJ was dominating at that time but MJ missed 2-3 years because of baseball. Then the early 2000's with Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest were both fantastic.

Looked up Artest and he was only an All-Star once, which is wild. That was 2003-04 season when he won DPOY and was 3rd team, his only All-NBA appearance. Interestingly Sam Cassell made All-NBA 2nd team that year.

Jermaine was a 6 time All-Star and 3 time All-NBA. Went 3rd team in 02 and 03 and 2nd team in 04.

Halliburton would be a favorite if he didn't get hurt next season. Shame.
Reggie was a great shooter but never a top-5 player. Jermaine O’Neal had an underrated peak in Indy. Why Portland never played him as a youngster is an all time head scratcher.
 

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Reggie was a great shooter but never a top-5 player. Jermaine O’Neal had an underrated peak in Indy. Why Portland never played him as a youngster is an all time head scratcher.

Reggie had some great statistical seasons though and when MJ was out he was arguably the top SG in the game for a minute. Looks like they loaded the teams with PG's though, Stockton, Payton, Price, and KJ as well as Penny when he exploded on the scene.


I agree on Jermaine but those Blazers teams were loaded. Sabonis, Rasheed, Schrempf, Pippen, and that's just frontcourt. They had depth in the backcourt also with Augmon, Bonzi, Steve Smith, and Greg Anthony. Absolute embarrassment of riches but they couldn't get around Prime Shaq to win anything.
 

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The Heat trade Haywood Highsmith and a second round pick to the Nets who absorb his contract.

About the only way the Suns can improve their team is via trade or free agency.

The extensions of Allen and O'Neale could haunt them.

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I don't worry about O'Neale and Allen. Playoff teams are always looking for bench guys like these two. I don't expect they will be on the team after the trade deadline.
 

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I don't worry about O'Neale and Allen. Playoff teams are always looking for bench guys like these two. I don't expect they will be on the team after the trade deadline.

Maybe we are undervaluing them a bit. They’re still capable players in their own right. Brooks and Dunn should be ahead of them in the lineup but Allen could make a resurgence with some legit down low presence. Our bigs should be able to free up some shots for him. And I see O’Neal as a professional who’s always ready to play. I feel they took on the lax play of last seasons team, but with energy and new hunger on the team they could play back up to their level of intensity we’ve seen them play.
 

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Maybe we are undervaluing them a bit. They’re still capable players in their own right. Brooks and Dunn should be ahead of them in the lineup but Allen could make a resurgence with some legit down low presence. Our bigs should be able to free up some shots for him. And I see O’Neal as a professional who’s always ready to play. I feel they took on the lax play of last seasons team, but with energy and new hunger on the team they could play back up to their level of intensity we’ve seen them play.
Last year, Allen and O'Neale were starters for us during the season on and off. Just think, we did make them into bench players. Our bench was really weak. This strengthens the bench a bit. Plus now we get to watch guys like Brea, Maluach, and Flemming come off the bench. Oso, too.

Now it is up to Green to play better than Beale, and Brooks to play better than O'Neale as starters. The fall off is the scoring from KD we are missing. But hopefully the defense will be much better than last year moving Dunn into the starting lineup, Williams and Brooks there, too. We were abysmal defensively.

If Ott can get this team to play anything like the last team he was at, we will be a much better watch this year.
 
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I think those are so far down the list of bad decisions that they're not a real issue. We'll be lucky to compete for a play-in spot this year and that's another year off their deals. The dead money going to Beal and Little is much worse. If we still have Royce and Grayson at this time next year then maybe it's time to call those bad decisions but they're making close to the MLE and that should make them moveable as teams suffer injuries and strengthen their squads for the postseason. That's where I expect to see deals involving them. They could bring back young guys who fit with the new young core of Green, Maluach, and Dunn.
I don't worry about O'Neale and Allen. Playoff teams are always looking for bench guys like these two. I don't expect they will be on the team after the trade deadline.

What I think is being missed, Allen and O'Neale were extended for trade purposes… for a trade that never happened last season. And back then, the Suns still had assets to attach to these players to help make a trade happen. Now the Suns only have one second round pick to trade and likely not a good one at that.

If a contender suffers an injury, they are not going to be able to absorb Allen and/or O'Neal's salary. The CBA makes it very difficult with the tax aprons. So it would likely require a trade to move one or both players.

Allen at approximately at 3 years, 54 million is not chicken feed, nor is O'Neale at 3 years, $32 million.

If the Suns are in build mode, Allen will turn 30 in October and O'Neale is already 32, not the best fit for this timeline.

This is not so much a discussion about whether Allen and O'Neale are worth their salary, it's more about, are they worth their salary to the Suns who are trying to get younger.

In this context, I think we can see why the Suns were looking for a younger player that would fill a need. This is probably why the Suns were exploring a trade for a player such as Kuminga.
 

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What I think is being missed, Allen and O'Neale were extended for trade purposes… for a trade that never happened last season. And back then, the Suns still had assets to attach to these players to help make a trade happen. Now the Suns only have one second round pick to trade and likely not a good one at that.

If a contender suffers an injury, they are not going to be able to absorb Allen and/or O'Neal's salary. The CBA makes it very difficult with the tax aprons. So it would likely require a trade to move one or both players.

Allen at approximately at 3 years, 54 million is not chicken feed, nor is O'Neale at 3 years, $32 million.

If the Suns are in build mode, Allen will turn 30 in October and O'Neale is already 32, not the best fit for this timeline.

This is not so much a discussion about whether Allen and O'Neale are worth their salary, it's more about, are they worth their salary to the Suns who are trying to get younger.

In this context, I think we can see why the Suns were looking for a younger player that would fill a need. This is probably why the Suns were exploring a trade for a player such as Kuminga.

They were extended to play and/or use in a potential trade. They would have been sent out in a sign and trade or something similar if they were only re-signed for trade purposes. Of course they don't fit the new timeline but that doesn't make them bad deals. Neither should be seen as bad contracts but they don't fit here anymore. O'Neale makes less than the MLE and Grayson makes a little more.

We're in a transitional period right now and neither should be given away as they're veterans who can and are good character guys to help our young players learn the ropes. We can't leave it all on Book to be the lone veteran. Until the right deal comes along I'd rather keep them as moveable contracts because we need to pay someone. We aren't competing for the duration of their deals anyways, even if we could turn them into Kuminga.

We don't need a team to absorb their contract either as we aren't getting cap space soon to be a free agent player. We have $21 million in dead money for the foreseeable future. That will keep us from doing something more than either of them as they are at least productive and worth their minutes and roster spot. We can't develop 2 extra youngsters here easily either so we need to careful in who we add. Developing can be done but we need guys who have proven to have NBA talent. Trading them to a contender for someone injured, an expiring contract, or a young guy who doesn't fit in their rotation is possible.

As we've seen many times over the last decade, it sucks seeing someone become available and not having salaries to make a deal work. We shouldn't be in a rush either to turn them into something else because swapping them for Kuminga, who I'm using as an example, would only set us back if he doesn't fit or live up to his contract. We aren't winning a title this year and would be lucky to make the playoffs. Patience is the right path forward when an upgrade isn't present.
 
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They were extended to play and/or use in a potential trade. They would have been sent out in a sign and trade or something similar if they were only re-signed for trade purposes. Of course they don't fit the new timeline but that doesn't make them bad deals. Neither should be seen as bad contracts but they don't fit here anymore. O'Neale makes less than the MLE and Grayson makes a little more.

We're in a transitional period right now and neither should be given away as they're veterans who can and are good character guys to help our young players learn the ropes. We can't leave it all on Book to be the lone veteran. Until the right deal comes along I'd rather keep them as moveable contracts because we need to pay someone. We aren't competing for the duration of their deals anyways, even if we could turn them into Kuminga.

We don't need a team to absorb their contract either as we aren't getting cap space soon to be a free agent player. We have $21 million in dead money for the foreseeable future. That will keep us from doing something more than either of them as they are at least productive and worth their minutes and roster spot. We can't develop 2 extra youngsters here easily either so we need to careful in who we add. Developing can be done but we need guys who have proven to have NBA talent. Trading them to a contender for someone injured, an expiring contract, or a young guy who doesn't fit in their rotation is possible.

As we've seen many times over the last decade, it sucks seeing someone become available and not having salaries to make a deal work. We shouldn't be in a rush either to turn them into something else because swapping them for Kuminga, who I'm using as an example, would only set us back if he doesn't fit or live up to his contract. We aren't winning a title this year and would be lucky to make the playoffs. Patience is the right path forward when an upgrade isn't present.

Who is talking about giving these players away? The Suns couldn't if they wanted too. I'm talking about their salaries, less you misconstrue what I am saying.

Contenders couldn't absorb their salaries and non-contenders wouldn't want to trade for them without assets attached. I already pointed out the Heat had to attach a second round draft pick to trade Haywood Highsmith.

What a trade would have done is allowed the Suns to use their Exceptions to fill more pressing needs.
 

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Who is talking about giving these players away? The Suns couldn't if they wanted too. I'm talking about their salaries, less you misconstrue what I am saying.

Contenders couldn't absorb their salaries and non-contenders wouldn't want to trade for them without assets attached. I already pointed out the Heat had to attach a second round draft pick to trade Haywood Highsmith.

What a trade would have done is allowed the Suns to use their Exceptions to fill more pressing needs.

It seems you are talking about giving them by mentioning absorbing contracts. We could take salary back in the form of expiring deals or young talent on rookie deals. We aren't constrained by the 2nd apron anymore and could get back multiple players, like a larger expiring with a rookie deal player that is a little more than Grayson in terms of salary but still legal. The young guy is the prize and the expiring alleviates our situation even more.

There's multiple ways this can be done. You saying absorb makes me think you're talking about giving them away in some fashion. We can get something more valuable to us in return, which may be as needed by the team we deal with. Like say Minnesota wants Grayson for his shooting, we can deal him for a big on their roster because they don't need them as much as extra shooting. Beneficial to both teams.

Using our exceptions could easily put us back in the same spot next summer, someone signed who is extraneous to us going forward and we need to sell at 50 cents on the dollar to move them.
 
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It seems you are talking about giving them by mentioning absorbing contracts. We could take salary back in the form of expiring deals or young talent on rookie deals. We aren't constrained by the 2nd apron anymore and could get back multiple players, like a larger expiring with a rookie deal player that is a little more than Grayson in terms of salary but still legal. The young guy is the prize and the expiring alleviates our situation even more.

There's multiple ways this can be done. You saying absorb makes me think you're talking about giving them away in some fashion. We can get something more valuable to us in return, which may be as needed by the team we deal with. Like say Minnesota wants Grayson for his shooting, we can deal him for a big on their roster because they don't need them as much as extra shooting. Beneficial to both teams.

Perhaps another forum fits your nutshell game better?
 

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Perhaps another forum fits your nutshell game better?

Huh? I genuinely don't get what you expect from the Suns this year. They don't need to trade Royce or Grayson as the result will be the same, fighting for the play-in. I recognize they don't fit our timeline but that doesn't mean we must trade them for someone who may not be a good fit like Kuminga simply because he's younger and is the first deal out there.

I just don't understand what you're hoping to happen.
 
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Huh? I genuinely don't get what you expect from the Suns this year. They don't need to trade Royce or Grayson as the result will be the same, fighting for the play-in. I recognize they don't fit our timeline but that doesn't mean we must trade them for someone who may not be a good fit like Kuminga simply because he's younger and is the first deal out there.

I just don't understand what you're hoping to happen.

I was looking for discussion. We both are well aware of the limitations of the CBA.
 
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