Minnesota Fan Source Reports KG in talks with Suns

[hsandhu]

I was listening for about 15 mins, and those two clowns were going strictly off the si article only, assuming it would be amare for kg, saying that is a stupid move for the suns, something we all agree on. And that would never happen.

But those arent the rumors started by the realgm stuff

 

[Divide Et Impera]

OK. I was just throwing out a number, but even if it were a 6yr/$96M contract, that's still $16M/yr. I'm just wondering if that's even a possibility. Could this be what is being negotiated?

 

[JS22]

this is the same GGambo who once proclaimed that the Suns were going to get Kobe AND T-Mac during the 2004 offseason, right? me thinks anything he says should be taken with a BAG of salt, one way or the other.

that being said, Id be beyond shocked if we were able to pull off either of these deals a) because we're in the same division as Kobe and b) because Garnett alongside Nash, Amare, me and Ouchie wouldbe guaranteed to win the next two NBA titles and that's just too good to be true.

Seriously. This is all anyone can bring up when trying to bash Gambo. He NEVER said it would happen, but discussed the possibility. (Basically saying how amazing it would be if the Suns could pull it off.)

Yeah, he's annoying, but his sources are legit.

 

[hsandhu]

how considerable a pay cut though? You positted a somewhat naive number of 5 years for 60 million, which I believe is just laughable. He'll easy get a contract from whatever team he lands on that hovers between 17-20 mil/season. To think one of the best players in the game (still and with no signs of slowing down and in impecable shape) would get a 12 million dollar deal just doesn't hold much water IMO. That's basically the same deal that Ben Wallace got last year, at a similar age and he's pretty much half or sixty percent the player Garnett is. At a MINIMUM his next contract averages 16.

I cant get into KG's head, maybe he wants the cash. But dude has made 200 million plus ALREADY. I remember when his first rookie contract came up, they passed on a 100 million, and held out for 125 million, basically guaranteeing a change in the way rookie contracts were done.

It's not crazy for athletes to give up some cash for a shot at the ring, especially after they made a lot. Hell Karl Malone gave up 17 million dollars for one year, and hadn't made nearly as much as kg.

Do I know garnett thinks this way for sure, no? But just watching and listening to him, and taking into account he is already worth almost a quarter of a billion, I would say 4 years 50 million is certainly not out of the question.

 

[hsandhu]

Seriously. This is all anyone can bring up when trying to bash Gambo. He NEVER said it would happen, but discussed the possibility. (Basically saying how amazing it would be if the Suns could pull it off.)

Yeah, he's annoying, but his sources are legit.

I remember that period VERY clearly, he didn't say it was a possiblity, he said it was the suns number one goal to do everything possible to make that happen. Then 12:01, July 1, 2004 they're at steve nash's doorstep.

 

[JS22]

I remember that period VERY clearly, he didn't say it was a possiblity, he said it was the suns number one goal to do everything possible to make that happen. Then 12:01, July 1, 2004 they're at steve nash's doorstep.

Because Kobe decided to stay with LA.

 

[hsandhu]

Because Kobe decided to stay with LA.

Kobe didnt make his decision until middle of july, and picked the lakers at the last minute over the clippers. And was listening to bulls/knicks up untile then as well.

 

[slinslin]

This works under the cap as well

Minnesota gets (ougoing 24.5M$, incoming 27M$)
Ratliff, Diaw, Barbosa, Gomes, #5, #29

Boston gets (ougoing 12.3M$, incoming 16.4M$)
Marion

Phoenix gets (outgoing 30M$, incoming, 24.5M$)
Garnett, Madsen

Or this

Minnesota gets (ougoing 30.5M$, incoming 31M$)
Ratliff, Gomes, Barbosa, Diaw, Banks, #5, #29

Bostson gets (ougoing 12.3M$, incoming 16.4M$)
Marion

Phoenix gets (outgoing 34M$, incoming, 30.5M$)
Garnett, Madsen, Jaric

 

[Cheesebeef]

I cant get into KG's head, maybe he wants the cash. But dude has made 200 million plus ALREADY. I remember when his first rookie contract came up, they passed on a 100 million, and held out for 125 million, basically guaranteeing a change in the way rookie contracts were done.

It's not crazy for athletes to give up some cash for a shot at the ring, especially after they made a lot. Hell Karl Malone gave up 17 million dollars for one year, and hadn't made nearly as much as kg.

I really don't think the Malone comparison holds much weight because while he was chasing a title, he was also 39 years old. That's just a HUGE discrepency as far as where those guys were in their respective careers - close to a decade in time with 39 v. 31. Malone was wayyy past his prime, at the end of his career (literally, his last year with the Lakers was it) whereas Garnett would still be right smack dab in the middle of it, with three or possibly four years to spare.

again, if Nash and Wallace got the ridiculous large contracts they got (especially considering what the league thought of them at the time and remember, this was pre-MVP Nash and one dimensional Wallace) KG could and WILL demand MUCH more IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This works under the cap as well

Minnesota gets (ougoing 24.5M$, incoming 28.7M$)
Ratliff, Diaw, Barbosa, Telfair, #5, #29

Boston gets (ougoing 14.1M$, incoming 16.4M$)
Marion

Phoenix gets (outgoing 30M$, incoming, 24.5M$)
Garnett, Madsen

so, Minny basically gets Barbs and number 5 and a horrid contract on the books for years at 9 million and a throwaway pick at #29 for KG? No way in hell would they make that deal. It gets them very little to build and it hurts their cap, even with Ratliff coming off the books.

to get that deal done, we'd have to send Atlanta's pick and expiring cap filler instead of Boris so that Minny could end up with Leo and two likely lotto picks plus cap space for that deal to work IMO.

 

[hsandhu]

I really don't think the Malone comparison holds much weight because while he was chasing a title, he was also 39 years old. That's just a HUGE discrepency as far as where those guys were in their respective careers - close to a decade in time with 39 v. 31. Malone was wayyy past his prime, at the end of his career (literally, his last year with the Lakers was it) whereas Garnett would still be right smack dab in the middle of it, with three or possibly four years to spare.

again, if Nash and Wallace got the ridiculous large contracts they got (especially considering what the league thought of them at the time and remember, this was pre-MVP Nash and one dimensional Wallace) KG could and WILL demand MUCH more IMO.

True, but it was 17 million on the table for one year, that's a lot to give up. We're talking about garnett giving up maybe 25 million over the course of four years.

On the second point, the big difference is nash and ben wallace hadn't cashed in on a big contract at that point. KG has done it, TWICE! He's almost got a quarter of a billion in the bank. Maybe he will demand much more, I'm just saying the money he already has and a chance at title(s) has the POSSIBILITY to sway him.

 

[slinslin]

so, Minny basically gets Barbs and number 5 and a horrid contract on the books for years at 9 million and a throwaway pick at #29 for KG? No way in hell would they make that deal. It gets them very little to build and it hurts their cap, even with Ratliff coming off the books.

to get that deal done, we'd have to send Atlanta's pick and expiring cap filler instead of Boris so that Minny could end up with Leo and two likely lotto picks plus cap space for that deal to work IMO.

First of all..

Other deals don't work under the cap.

Second of all I am exteremly doubting that GMs are as up and down on players like fans are. I doubt Diaw has that little trade value. Teams know if they acquired him to be their starting PF they would probably get the Diaw from when Amare was injured.

Not that it matters in the other deal Minnesota gets to dump Madsen and Jaric.

Barbosa has to have extremely high trade value, clearly more than Ben Gordon, a lot more.

Look what Shaq, TMac or Iverson returned.

If Minnesota can get Ratliff, Gomes, Barbosa, Diaw, #5 out of Garnett, Madsen and Jaric than that is A LOT better than what Iverson returned.

 

[Cheesebeef]

True, but it was 17 million on the table for one year, that's a lot to give up. We're talking about garnett giving up maybe 25 million over the course of four years.

On the second point, the big difference is nash and ben wallace hadn't cashed in on a big contract at that point. KG has done it, TWICE! He's almost got a quarter of a billion in the bank. Maybe he will demand much more, I'm just saying the money he already has and a chance at title(s) has the POSSIBILITY to sway him.

yeah, but once that contract runs out, KG likely won't be able to make up the difference. At age 31, you're looking at your last GREAT contract and I believe that when your in your prime, you just can't take a 50% pay cut. I just don't believe that to be in any NBA player's DNA, especially ones who likely have ginormous egos like most superstars likely do. I just can't see KG going from 24 million per year down to 12 as he signs his last huge contract. I don't care how much money he's made. But we can agree to disagree and we'll see the proof in the pudding come next year, or this year for that matter if he's traded and signs an extension.

 

[slinslin]

cheesebeef its a moot point, KG can want what he wants, the truth is there are no teams that could even give him another contract starting at over 20M$. You would have to have 20M$ capspace for that to happen

 

[Cheesebeef]

First of all..

Other deals don't work under the cap.

so, that just means Minnesota's gonna take something just to work under the cap, value be damned? No, so that's a pretty weak issue to bring up.

Second of all I am exteremly doubting that GMs are as up and down on players like fans are. I doubt Diaw has that little trade value. Teams know if they acquired him to be their starting PF they would probably get the Diaw from when Amare was injured.

or they look at him and say, out of four years, the only time this guy ever gave a crap was in a contract player, feeding off the MVP Steve Nash and he's shown on two different clubs that he's got motivational issues. They're just as likely to see that as the above. And they see he's on the hook for 9million over 5 years - that's a big gamble for a guy coming off a pretty piss poor season.

Not that it matters in the other deal Minnesota gets to dump Madsen and Jaric.

Barbosa has to have extremely high trade value, clearly more than Ben Gordon, a lot more.

Look what Shaq, TMac or Iverson returned.

If Minnesota can get Ratliff, Gomes, Barbosa, Diaw, #5 out of Garnett, Madsen and Jaric than that is A LOT better than what Iverson returned.

a) show me how Barbosa has "clearly more value than Ben Gordon, a lot more". You can say this, but is there any basis in fact from it? Gordon scored more int he same amount of minutes and is just as young as Leo, so how exactly does he have "clearly more value", much less "a lot more"?

b) With Shaq, there were a TON of mitigating factors, such as the Lakers HAD to deal him and deal him fast because of Kobe, not to mention that Shaq demanded a trade, hurting other teams leverage.

c) Iverson was a small, versus a big, which are much tougher to get and make more of an impact. Not to mention that fact that he was a constant headache/disruption on the Sixers for years.

d) in all those scenarios, there wasn't another team like Chicago or Boston who could make better deals than the crap listed above. Both of those teams could and get Garnett and contend in the east, thus the situations are all different.

 

[Cheesebeef]

cheesebeef its a moot point, KG can want what he wants, the truth is there are no teams that could even give him another contract starting at over 20M$. You would have to have 20M$ capspace for that to happen

who said anything over 20? I just thought the 5 years for 60 was completely infeasible. Mark my words, he'll get at least 16 mill for his next contract and if he doesn't I'll leave the board forever. that's how sure I am of that. MVPs at the peak of their careers don't take 12 million/year. It's as simple as that. And if he is gonna be a FA, you can bet your ass, someone smart will be opening up salary cap room to sign him. Guys like him don't hit the market for a reason and I suspect he won't either.

 

[slinslin]

a) show me how Barbosa has "clearly more value than Ben Gordon, a lot more". You can say this, but is there any basis in fact from it? Gordon scored more int he same amount of minutes and is just as young as Leo, so how exactly does he have "clearly more value", much less "a lot more"?

It's pretty obvious.

Talentwise they are about the same. Size advantages are clearly in Barbosa's favor.

But the obvious reason of course is, Barbosa is the most underpaid player in the league at 5 yrs/32M$ while Gordon is going to be up for an extension and will likely demand TWICE as much as Barbosa.

 

[slinslin]

who said anything over 20? I just thought the 5 years for 60 was completely infeasible. Mark my words, he'll get at least 16 mill for his next contract and if he doesn't I'll leave the board forever. that's how sure I am of that. MVPs at the peak of their careers don't take 12 million/year. It's as simple as that. And if he is gonna be a FA, you can bet your ass, someone smart will be opening up salary cap room to sign him. Guys like him don't hit the market for a reason and I suspect he won't either.

His MVP was 4 years ago, since that he hasn't made the playoffs for years and to say he is at the peak of his career right now must be a joke.

Anyway the whole point of that is that trading for Garnett doesn't equal increasing the payroll. Gambo and Ash simply have no clue about salary cap stuff at all, even if Garnett had a huge trade kicker that he couldn't waive still doesn't mean that the Suns increase their payroll.

 

[Gaddabout]

who said anything over 20? I just thought the 5 years for 60 was completely infeasible. Mark my words, he'll get at least 16 mill for his next contract and if he doesn't I'll leave the board forever. that's how sure I am of that. MVPs at the peak of their careers don't take 12 million/year. It's as simple as that. And if he is gonna be a FA, you can bet your ass, someone smart will be opening up salary cap room to sign him. Guys like him don't hit the market for a reason and I suspect he won't either.

If he wants to win, he'll take 12 mil, maybe 14 mil tops. Anymore and he surely eliminates any team with a legit shot at the title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's pretty obvious.

Talentwise they are about the same. Size advantages are clearly in Barbosa's favor.

Barbs has got an inch on - how that's CLEARLY anything, especially for a SG is a bit of stretch. They're both undersized combo guards. But, even that being said, Gordon is also a year younger than Barbs, and has been in the league one fewer year, so there's still room for his game to grow as well.

But the obvious reason of course is, Barbosa is the most underpaid player in the league at 5 yrs/32M$ while Gordon is going to be up for an extension and will likely demand TWICE as much as Barbosa.

that's a good point if you're right about Gordon's extension, but I don't think he's going to get TWICE that much. No one's gonna give Ben Gordon a 5 year, 64 million dollar deal.

 

[slinslin]

Barbs has got an inch on - how that's CLEARLY anything, especially for a SG is a bit of stretch. They're both undersized combo guards. But, even that being said, Gordon is also a year younger than Barbs, and has been in the league one fewer year, so there's still room for his game to grow as well.



that's a good point if you're right about Gordon's extension, but I don't think he's going to get TWICE that much. No one's gonna give Ben Gordon a 5 year, 64 million dollar deal.

1. Gordon's official measurements may say 6'2 but there is just no way this guy truly is over 6', he is considerably smaller than Barbosa and doesn't have those long arms Barbosa has. To me it means nothing that Gordon is a year younger and has a year less NBA experience. Barbosa came over from freaking Brasil with no real experience and couldn't speak english.

2. Well you think Gordon won't get 5 years /60M$. I say he will, he is totally overrated especially in the media. Barbosa's love for the Suns and Phoenix and the fact that he exploded AFTER signing his contract made him this cheap.

Gordon will try to milk anyone for the max.

Barbosa is probably nearly untouchable on the Suns though. The whole point of the trade was showing the salaries.

And also the fact that Kevin Garnett can waive his trade kicker.

 

[Cheesebeef]

His MVP was 4 years ago, since that he hasn't made the playoffs for years and to say he is at the peak of his career right now must be a joke.

sorry slin, the only joke I've seen is your trade proposal and belief that KG could be signed to a 5 year, 60 million dollar deal.

Beyond that he won the MVP in 2004 - correct me if I'm wrong, but it's 2007 - that's three years, pretty much putting him in the same spot that Barkley was when we got him. Still putting up league leading numbers in rebounding and scoring above his career average, while still putting up 4 dimes a game, all of this on a wretched team and more than likely being completely energized if he got to a new team, just like Charles.

to blame him for the Wolves not making the playoffs is just a ridiculous argument. He's a man on island. Ricky Davis is the second best player. Come on now. I know you're trying to win an argument, but saying the above really doesn't help your case.

 

[slinslin]

Barkley was 28 when he got to Phoenix, not 31.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Barkley was 28 when he got to Phoenix, not 31.

actually, we're both wrong. He was 29. But I guess that does devalue my point a little bit.

still, to say that KG ain't at his peak and is the reason his team isn't in the playoffs anymore is pretty insane IMO. You put him on the Suns and I bet he posts career numbers across the board. You know it and I know it. He's just a mentally beaten down man who needs a fresh start.

 

[slinslin]

nm