Maybe it's just me, but isn't Tolbert our receivers coach?

[ds512az]

Everything that I've been reading here lately has Sully working diligently with all these WR prospects that are being thrown about. Doesn't anyone have the opinion that JS needs to be working on an effective O plan rather than trying to get "all that you can be" out of the receivers on this team?

Not to offend anyone, but this is Sully's first OC job. If it were me, I'd be making damn sure that we weren't the typical run, run, pass, punt Cards of the past. Because as a fan, I expect more from someone is has turned into a receiver guru than that. Or maybe I'm wrong. I would assume that JS had a hand in hiring Tolbert, so I'm sure that the confidence is there.

Just another topic for all of you out there. Opinions?

 

[kerouac9]

I'll weigh in...

And it's come considerable weight.

I totally agree. In a certain respect, I think the Cards hamstrung Sully in the way they've handled the offseason so far. As I remember, they made Sully the OC in part to help re-sign Boston. My guess was that they were hoping that retaining Sully (who was supposed to go to Dallas and be the WR coach, if I remember) would help get DB to sign the insulting contract they were offering at the beginning of free agency. Now, Boston's gone, and Sully is forced to be a "run first" team, something that, to the best of my knowledge, he doesn't really know anything about.

I think we're now banking on Sully already having done his magic with Gilmore and McAddley (he didn't do anything with/for Kaspar, since he was a late-season addition), and that they'll be starters and perform at an acceptable level this season.

All that being said, I'm not sure that we can't expect a decent season out of Blake and the WRs this year. Last season, he threw for 2100 yards in 11 appearances and 10 starts. He did this with the nobodies of Travis Taylor and Brandon Stokley as his primary targets, in a run-first offense. That projects to 3000 yds in a 16 game season.

For what it's worth...

 

[Shane]

You are absolutely correcy Sully is not going to have the time to work one on one with the WRs like he has in the past!

Hopefully he had input and the guy we hired is a more than capable replacement!

If you are expecting anything other than run,run,pass with Emmitt, Marcell, our big O-line and lack of WR experience I think you are fooling yourself. Regardless of sullys passing history!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Shane H
If you are expecting anything other than run,run,pass with Emmitt, Marcell, our big O-line and lack of WR experience I think you are fooling yourself. Regardless of sullys passing history!

I think that he doesn't really have a problem with the "run, run" part, it's the "pass, punt" part that he really objects to. If the Cards can go "run, run, run (first down); run, run, screen (first down); run, play-action pass (first down); reverse (touchdown)," I think we'll all be happy. I'm afraid of "run (3 yds), run (3 yds), pass (dropped ball), punt" for sixteen games. That's what Lions fans are used to.

 

[jw7]

I'll weigh in

I wish Sully the best, but I'd be lying if I didn't have some concerns.

He is probably the best WR coach in the league, and I'm more concerned about the loss of his talent there than what he may or may not do as OC.

I think it's the "Peter Principle" that says that people are promoted up and up until they ultimately can't do the job. Hope I'm wrong here, but so long as its something different than the past, I'm hopeful.

I'd like to see him open it up - just don't know who Blake is gonna pass too?

 

[Red Air Force]

Hopefully he had input and the guy we hired is a more than capable replacement!

Tolbert is Sully's protege. So in that respect, I expect Tolbert and Sullivin to be working together with the reciever corps.

he didn't do anything with/for Kaspar, since he was a late-season addition

One of the first things Kasper said to the media was that he "had learned more in two weeks from Sully, than he had in his entire footbal carrer.

As I remember, they made Sully the OC in part to help re-sign Boston.

I think that was more conjecture on the part of this board, than anything. Who knows the plan all along may have been to drop Boston.

Sully knows what he has, and what he needs. I'm really not too worried about it, and hope that we suprise a few people this season, with out cast of unknowns and retreads.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: I'll weigh in...

Originally posted by kerouac9

I totally agree. In a certain respect, I think the Cards hamstrung Sully in the way they've handled the offseason so far. As I remember, they made Sully the OC in part to help re-sign Boston.

That's an assumption. The team, or even it's reporter Jurecki, never said that they gave Sully the OC job to keep Boston.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
Tolbert is Sully's protege. So in that respect, I expect Tolbert and Sullivin to be working together with the reciever corps.

Sullivan may, in fact, be working with Tolbert, but he'll be working with all the assistants. O-Coordinator is a full-time position, which includes game-planning, evaluating O-Line, running backs, QB play and progress, offensive play design, and running backs. Obviously, WR coach is a full-time job, too, or Sully would have been doing other things, as well. If Sully's going to be spending all his time working with WRs, we should have gotten an OC in who had more ideas and could multi-task.

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
One of the first things Kasper said to the media was that he "had learned more in two weeks from Sully, than he had in his entire footbal carrer.

Well, that's nice, considering that he was never on the field before in the NFL, and probably spent more time out of the league than in it. People say nice things when a microphone is in front of them, especially about their coaches. Do you ever hear Starks say, "Coach Mac's a wind bag who's all talk, and doesn't really help us with strategy when the game's on the line, and none of the good players like DB and I ever really listen to him at halftime, because we're too busy talking about the new DMX CD"? No, you hear them talk about how Mac's a "Great guy and master motivator."

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
I think that was more conjecture on the part of this board, than anything. Who knows the plan all along may have been to drop Boston.

I've heard it from more than this board. If I remember, it was in the Republic, for whatever that's worth. If Sully's really the man in charge of the O, why has he been such a phantom for the past three weeks? No one's heard a peep from him about Blake, Hodgins, that O-line guy, or Emmitt. Sounds like a man in full control, rather than a recruiting strategem that failed. I mean, Jesus, you even hear from Marmie and "coach" Green every once in a while.

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
Sully knows what he has, and what he needs. I'm really not too worried about it, and hope that we suprise a few people this season, with out cast of unknowns and retreads.

I hope so, as well, but Sully doesn't seem to be wielding a whole lot of control over anything right now.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: I'll weigh in...

Originally posted by kerouac9


All that being said, I'm not sure that we can't expect a decent season out of Blake and the WRs this year. Last season, he threw for 2100 yards in 11 appearances and 10 starts. He did this with the nobodies of Travis Taylor and Brandon Stokley as his primary targets, in a run-first offense. That projects to 3000 yds in a 16 game season.

For what it's worth...

Well Taylor was a former 1st round pick not exactly nobody, but yeah Blake didn't play with great WR's in Baltimore.

I think part of the key here is the one thing most of the WR's we'll have on our roster can do is run. BLake throws the deep ball much better than Plummer did, so it's conceivable he can take advantage of all the single coverage better than Jake did last year. If the WR's improve that's great but expecting Sully to turn them into great WR's I think is expecting a miracle.

As long as we make more plays downfield without a bunch of dumb turnovers I'll be happy. If we somehow get a #1 WR by trade, signing or draft that will come in handy. I read over the weekend more stuff about Muhsin Muhammad likely being cut he'd be a nice pickup if that happens, as others have suggested before. He's not Boston but he's good. I also read in USA Today sometime last week that the Bears are going to release Marcus Robinson as soon as they are confident David Terrell's foot is healed, they have no intentions of dealing Terrell(damn). So Robinson is as others have said before likely to be free soon unless Terrell's foot problem lingers.

 

[Red Air Force]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Sullivan may, in fact, be working with Tolbert, but he'll be working with all the assistants. O-Coordinator is a full-time position, which includes game-planning, evaluating O-Line, running backs, QB play and progress, offensive play design, and running backs. Obviously, WR coach is a full-time job, too, or Sully would have been doing other things, as well. If Sully's going to be spending all his time working with WRs, we should have gotten an OC in who had more ideas and could multi-task.



Well, that's nice, considering that he was never on the field before in the NFL, and probably spent more time out of the league than in it. People say nice things when a microphone is in front of them, especially about their coaches. Do you ever hear Starks say, "Coach Mac's a wind bag who's all talk, and doesn't really help us with strategy when the game's on the line, and none of the good players like DB and I ever really listen to him at halftime, because we're too busy talking about the new DMX CD"? No, you hear them talk about how Mac's a "Great guy and master motivator."



I've heard it from more than this board. If I remember, it was in the Republic, for whatever that's worth. If Sully's really the man in charge of the O, why has he been such a phantom for the past three weeks? No one's heard a peep from him about Blake, Hodgins, that O-line guy, or Emmitt. Sounds like a man in full control, rather than a recruiting strategem that failed. I mean, Jesus, you even hear from Marmie and "coach" Green every once in a while.



I hope so, as well, but Sully doesn't seem to be wielding a whole lot of control over anything right now.

It's not Sullivan's job to make comments, because he's NOT in charge of the offense, Mac is. Do you think graves is just adding players williy nilly without consulting the coaching staff? Of course not, you sit down and look at all the options; pass on the ones that arent good, and go after the good ones. You can't create something that isn't there, and we shouldn't make stupid descisions on the ones that are.

We haven't even had a single camp, and already you are questioning Sullivan's ability to game plan, and his ability to multi-task.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
It's not Sullivan's job to make comments, because he's NOT in charge of the offense, Mac is. Do you think graves is just adding players williy nilly without consulting the coaching staff? Of course not, you sit down and look at all the options; pass on the ones that arent good, and go after the good ones. You can't create something that isn't there, and we shouldn't make stupid descisions on the ones that are.

Since when is it a defensive Head Coach's job to run the offense? I thought the O-Coordinator's job was to be in charge of the offense. Perhaps I was wrong, along with every other observer of the NFL.

I don't know if Graves is talking to anyone besides Mac or not. What I do know is that I haven't heard word one from our new Offensive Guru since he signed his contract right before the Senior Bowl. I can say that I've never heard anything from Mac saying that he discussed this with Coach Sullivan, or anything from Graves saying the same thing.

I'm not questioning Sully's ability to do anything, I'm just saying that if he can't orchestrate an Offense, and can only work with WRs as a teacher, perhaps he's better off not orchestrating the offense.

 

[Red Air Force]

Originally posted by kerouac9

Well, that's nice, considering that he was never on the field before in the NFL, and probably spent more time out of the league than in it.

Well thats not exactly right, seeing as he's played in 23 of 32 in two NFL seasons, and started 8 of them.

I would say too that he did get "some" playing time while setting most of the major recieving records at Iowa.

College Highlights
Kasper was regarded as one of the most talented but underrated wide receivers in the 2001 NFL Draft, coming out of Iowa. A first-team All-Big Conference selection and two-time Academic All-Big Ten honoree, Kasper played in 44 career games (21 starts) and is the school's all-time receptions leader (157) while ranking fourth on the career receiving yards chart (1,974). His 82 receptions as a senior rank No. 1 on the Hawkeyes' all-time single-season list and led the Big Ten that year, while his 1,010 yards rank second on the school's single-season chart. Kasper caught at least one pass in 32 of his final 33 games and is one of seven players in school history to gain more than 600 yards receiving in more than one season (also 664 yds. as a junior in 1999). He was a walk-on in 1996 and redshirted that year. He earned his bachelor's degree in marketing from Iowa.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235097/bios

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Since when is it a defensive Head Coach's job to run the offense? I thought the O-Coordinator's job was to be in charge of the offense. Perhaps I was wrong, along with every other observer of the NFL.

I don't know if Graves is talking to anyone besides Mac or not. What I do know is that I haven't heard word one from our new Offensive Guru since he signed his contract right before the Senior Bowl. I can say that I've never heard anything from Mac saying that he discussed this with Coach Sullivan, or anything from Graves saying the same thing.

I'm not questioning Sully's ability to do anything, I'm just saying that if he can't orchestrate an Offense, and can only work with WRs as a teacher, perhaps he's better off not orchestrating the offense.

Dude you are dillusional.

How much did we hear from Rich Olson last year? Very little, about as much as we have heard from Sullivan this year.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by CaliforniaCard
Well thats not exactly right, seeing as he's played in 23 of 32 in two NFL seasons, and started 8 of them.

I would say too that he did get "some" playing time while setting most of the major recieving records at Iowa.

College Highlights
Kasper was regarded as one of the most talented but underrated wide receivers in the 2001 NFL Draft, coming out of Iowa. A first-team All-Big Conference selection and two-time Academic All-Big Ten honoree, Kasper played in 44 career games (21 starts) and is the school's all-time receptions leader (157) while ranking fourth on the career receiving yards chart (1,974). His 82 receptions as a senior rank No. 1 on the Hawkeyes' all-time single-season list and led the Big Ten that year, while his 1,010 yards rank second on the school's single-season chart. Kasper caught at least one pass in 32 of his final 33 games and is one of seven players in school history to gain more than 600 yards receiving in more than one season (also 664 yds. as a junior in 1999). He was a walk-on in 1996 and redshirted that year. He earned his bachelor's degree in marketing from Iowa.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235097/bios

I don't know what to tell you, Kasper sucks, has gotten released from at least two teams. He wouldn't get a sniff in the NFL except from the Cards, and that was after everyone else on our depth chart was hurt. NFL.com reports that everyone's an All Pro. The Hawkeyes suck and are a joke in the NCAA.

Krang: All right, we didn't hear anything from Olson last year, and our offense ranked what in the NFL? 27th. Perhaps it's time for a change. I'm not saying that he needs to be on SportsCenter every night, but I haven't even heard Mac or Graves say they consulted the guy over signing Emmitt, or naming him the starter. Is he even in the loop?

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know what to tell you, Kasper sucks, has gotten released from at least two teams

I'm not completely sold on the guy or anything, but the Broncos are the only team he's been on besides the Cards. They drafted him in the sixth in 2001.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know what to tell you, Kasper sucks, has gotten released from at least two teams. He wouldn't get a sniff in the NFL except from the Cards, and that was after everyone else on our depth chart was hurt. NFL.com reports that everyone's an All Pro. The Hawkeyes suck and are a joke in the NCAA.

Krang: All right, we didn't hear anything from Olson last year, and our offense ranked what in the NFL? 27th. Perhaps it's time for a change. I'm not saying that he needs to be on SportsCenter every night, but I haven't even heard Mac or Graves say they consulted the guy over signing Emmitt, or naming him the starter. Is he even in the loop?

Well the Niners had a pretty good offense, and I don't remember reading quotes from OC Greg Knapp all the time.

I don't want anyone talking to the media all the time, except for people who routinely do that like Mac, Rod, and Michael Bidwill. There is no reason for it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I'm not completely sold on the guy or anything, but the Broncos are the only team he's been on besides the Cards. They drafted him in the sixth in 2001.

He was released by the Seahawks before we picked him up. Whether he was on the practice squad or active roster, I don't remember.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
He was released by the Seahawks before we picked him up. Whether he was on the practice squad or active roster, I don't remember.

Those FOOLS!!!! They'll rue the day I tell ya.... j/k

I don't mind Kasper, I just think that he's about #4 on the depth chart by the time the season starts.

1-Muhammed
2-McAddley (Oh man I like this guy a lot)
3-Gilmore
4-Kasper

The question is, who's #4 would anyone rather have?
Can't think of any myself.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I'm not completely sold on the guy or anything, but the Broncos are the only team he's been on besides the Cards. They drafted him in the sixth in 2001.

Yeah, but he was released in the 2001 offseason after they drafted Lelie and signed Rob Moore, then he was signed by the Seahawks, subsequently cut by them before the season, then sat by the phone until we called him.

He appeared in 10 games, starting 5 in 2001 (this was the season that Ed McCaffery's knee exploded in the season opener of MNF). He caught 8 balls for 85 yds, and had 3 rushes for 19 yards.

Krang: Yeah, but Mooch is an offense coach, so you don't hear from/about the o-coordinator. You do hear alot from/about guys like Kevin Gilbride, though, when the O-Coordinator isn't with an O-minded coach.

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Yeah, but he was released in the 2001 offseason after they drafted Lelie and signed Rob Moore, then he was signed by the Seahawks, subsequently cut by them before the season, then sat by the phone until we called him.

They were trying very hard to hang on to him but had other positions come up due to injury and had to let him go when the Cards claimed him. I can't believe anyone who saw him this year would say he sucks. When the ball was anywhere near him he caught it.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AzCards21
They were trying very hard to hang on to him but had other positions come up due to injury and had to let him go when the Cards claimed him. I can't believe anyone who saw him this year would say he sucks. When the ball was anywhere near him he caught it.

Hey, if you think he's a great player, want him starting in the #1, 2, or 3 spots, that's great. Obviously, the Broncos were in love with him, as were the Seahawks.

It's easy to get open when the D is looking for the run, and they're playing the zone so as not to give up the deep ball because the opponent is down by three touchdowns. I saw every Cards game this season, and he's all right, I guess, but I don't want him any higher than #4 on the depth chart, which is where scrubs sit.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't want him any higher than #4 on the depth chart, which is where scrubs sit.

Is there any #4's for anyone else that you'd rather have? I can't think of any.

I think we all pretty much know that he's #4 on the depth chart, so much of this is moot anyway.

What's important is that he hang onto the rock on kick returns.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Hey, if you think he's a great player, want him starting in the #1, 2, or 3 spots, that's great. Obviously, the Broncos were in love with him, as were the Seahawks.

It's easy to get open when the D is looking for the run, and they're playing the zone so as not to give up the deep ball because the opponent is down by three touchdowns. I saw every Cards game this season, and he's all right, I guess, but I don't want him any higher than #4 on the depth chart, which is where scrubs sit.

Not that I'm trying to turn this into a Kevin Kasper thread, but...

I too saw every Cardinals game last year. (as I have for the past few years)

I like Kasper!

He has competitive qualities that make him the kind of player you want on the roster regardless of playing ability. You want to root for a guy like this.

Understand, I am not calling for him to be inserted into the #1 WR slot, nor am I saying he needs to make the team if our other receivers are better during mini-camps and the pre-season.

As for what all of his former teams didn't see in his ability I can't say. I see him doing quite well for us at #4 or #3, maybe even #2 in a pinch.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Is there any #4's for anyone else that you'd rather have? I can't think of any.

Andre' Davis, of the Browns, to name one...

Marcus Knight, of the Raiders, to name another...

Scottie Montgomery, of the Broncos...

 

[Tangodnzr]

I have been saying I was going to write this for awhile now. Looks like this is a good time to do it.

I think the Cards are doing a very good job in the teamwork and synergistic approach they seem to be taking with all of their staff.
No Tuna's, Walrus's, or JJ's here.
No one man shows and big ego powertrips.
These guys seem to be coming together as a team of their own, From Micheal and the rest of the Bidwill's right on down through Tyke Tolbert and Ron Milus.
Graves isn't usurping any power from Mac, each has their own job and tasks to do. And those 2 positions, out of all of them, are best handled by separate individuals, working together.
The hiring of some of the new assistant coaches seemed to be very well thought out and good people hired who fit nicely into the system developing.
It's no secret that Sullivan is going into some uncharted waters with his promotion. He said after he took the job, that the reason he delayed was because it was a big decision to have to "give up" some of the teaching. But he IS a teacher at heart. He also said in an interview that he wasn't sure yet whether he would be on the sidelines or up in the booth on gameday.
I'm willing to bet he will be on the sidelines, yelling, teaching, demanding, hands on involvement....that's his nature.
I expect to see Marty Galbraith in the booth.
I think Galbraith was hired to not only work with TE's but maybe even more importantly to take some of the OC load off Sully and help him develop. Galbraith has a lot of experience with QB's and the OC position.
Tolbert is basically Sullivan's hand picked prize student to carry on his methods and philosophies with the receivers.
Marmie will again be DC, but here I'll bet he gets input from Mac and I would think Fitzgerald too. I think Fitz may a great candidate for future DC. The only really unknown, to me, is Ron Milus with the DB's. Everyone else seems to have been carefully and thoughtfully chosen, so I will make the assumption they knew what they were doing by hiring him too.
I can't believe some of the couch potato critics who see nothing positive happening, and just rag on the Cards.
Based on some of the comments I read here, they seem like little more than cheap replays of an old un-nemed non-card kibitzer.