Making the leap

[BullheadCardFan]

As of now, there's nothing to earn--Adams IS the RG.

MO really is counting on him to be a quality starter?

Kind of scary that that we don't have any more options. Quality wise

Does JG know something we don't?

 

[oaken1]

MO really is counting on him to be a quality starter?

Kind of scary that that we don't have any more options. Quality wise

Does JG know something we don't?

JG knows lots about these guys that we don't.
It's not unrealistic to expect a guy to be better than his rookie season. Strength training and work on pass pro could make Adams a decent starter

 

[kerouac9]

I am intrigued by Weaver. If memory serves he was on the 53 man roster all season but never active meaning they didn't want to lose him and thought he had developmental potential.

Weaver was active for 2 games and had 2 targets last season. Nothings changed on the depth chart ahead of him; he’s gonna have to earn whatever chance he gets.

 

[BulldogCard]

The key is Kyler becoming a dual threat again; upping the rushing yardage, which will be a catalyst for the whole team'ssuccess. The D is improved for sure so they'll get off the field finally at key times. He'll have to avoid injury tho, which makes Conner, Benson and that oline so crucial.

 

[BACH]

MO really is counting on him to be a quality starter?

Kind of scary that that we don't have any more options. Quality wise

Does JG know something we don't?

What is the big question.

I praised Adams in several games last year - from the angle that he was a raw talent making some progress.

But from the high level approach we didn’t see anything at solid starter level. Some dominating plays in the run game. Far too many bad plays especially in pass protection.

Hoping, but skeptical

 

[BACH]

As of now, there's nothing to earn--Adams IS the RG.

This is the problem and I’m curious what the plan is.

They brought in a couple of depth guys and Gaines is still a question mark.

Gaines was kept on the active roster without playing. Curhan was signed from the Bears. He was a bad back-up RT. He got moved to G due to injury and actually looked decent - grading at 68 pff, which is solid starter level.

O-linemen takes time to develop, so they could become good, but as of now we haven’t see anything to suggest that is actually the case

 

[oaken1]

G

This is the problem and I’m curious what the plan is.

They brought in a couple of depth guys and Gaines is still a question mark.

Gaines was kept on the active roster without playing. Curhan was signed from the Bears. He was a bad back-up RT. He got moved to G due to injury and actually looked decent - grading at 68 pff, which is solid starter level.

O-linemen takes time to develop, so they could become good, but as of now we haven’t see anything to suggest that is actually the case

Aines graded at 63 pff
Rated 31 out of 64 centers based on 22 snaps last year.
Small sample size but he seems to be developing

 

[BACH]

G

Aines graded at 63 pff
Rated 31 out of 64 centers based on 22 snaps last year.
Small sample size but he seems to be developing

Disregarded him due to the small sample size.

 

[PACardsFan]

agree. he was pretty effective in the run game. If he can bring his pass protection up to par it goes a long way in easing my concerns over the interior line.
That Will Hernandez injury really hurts. I know I like Hernandez more than most on here. But his presence was missed in nearly every game. Adams has big shoes to fill.
surprisingly, this kid we drafted this year has a similar profile...good run blocker but sorely lacking in pass pro. But unlike Adams I dont think his feet are quick enough for his pass pro to improve much.
whoever wins the starting jobs, continuity will be key. if we can just keep guys healthy and not have to rely on our interior depth we should be fine.

I am also wondering about Jones... he played fairly respectable ball at OT when he got in there...could he play inside? We have Beach to come off the bench so at the moment we dont really need Jones as depth...and we would have to have two OT injuries to make him kick out... and if that happens we are kinda screwed anyway... but getting our best five on the field could include having Jones play guard

Beachum needs to be the absolute last resort at RT. I wouldn’t hesitate at all to play Jones at RT should Williams go down again. I watch a ton of tape & think that Beachum is borderline awful.

 

[PACardsFan]

MO really is counting on him to be a quality starter?

Kind of scary that that we don't have any more options. Quality wise

Does JG know something we don't?

Of course he does. What makes you think we know anything lol. Every OLinemen we drafted in 2023 & 2024 will be ready if called upon to contribute this year. That’s not scary at all to me because this is a coaching staff that knows how to develop their players.

 

[BACH]

Beachum needs to be the absolute last resort at RT. I wouldn’t hesitate at all to play Jones at RT should Williams go down again. I watch a ton of tape & think that Beachum is borderline awful.

Beachum is IMO without a doubt a top 10 swing tackle in the league.

But that doesn’t mean he’s good, just how hard it is to find quality talent at OL. He rated at the lower spectrum of solid starter per pff

 

[PACardsFan]

Beachum is IMO without a doubt a top 10 swing tackle in the league.

But that doesn’t mean he’s good, just how hard it is to find quality talent at OL. He rated at the lower spectrum of solid starter per pff

He’s an intelligent guy who routinely gets beat & only Murray’s ability to make the first guy miss saves Beachum from absolute bum status.

 

[oaken1]

He’s an intelligent guy who routinely gets beat & only Murray’s ability to make the first guy miss saves Beachum from absolute bum status.

Beach has been one of the best swing tackles in the league for years.
The problem is, because he comes off the bench, any effective DC automatically moves his best pass rusher to go against Beachum. So while his stats/performance may not be impressive on its face he is usually facing the best pass rushers the league has to offer...consistently.

I mean really...if you were a DC unleashing a Watt or a Bosa,...would you have him facing PJJ?? Or Beachum?
Regardless of that, he still holds his own. It may not be pretty but he rarely blows a block or gives up a sack.

what more can you reasonably expect from a guy who not only comes off the bench...but has to train for both sides instead of just one?

 

[DaHilg]

Beach has been one of the best swing tackles in the league for years.
The problem is, because he comes off the bench, any effective DC automatically moves his best pass rusher to go against Beachum. So while his stats/performance may not be impressive on its face he is usually facing the best pass rushers the league has to offer...consistently.

I mean really...if you were a DC unleashing a Watt or a Bosa,...would you have him facing PJJ?? Or Beachum?
Regardless of that, he still holds his own. It may not be pretty but he rarely blows a block or gives up a sack.

what more can you reasonably expect from a guy who not only comes off the bench...but has to train for both sides instead of just one?

Maybe 2-3 years ago.. but the guy has been washed an awful the last few seasons. It’s a reason why he’s so cheap and no one else wants him.. to his respect, no shame on him as it’s a commendable he’s still in the league at his age and lack of talent.

 

[DaHilg]

The fan fare many on this board have for washed tenured Cardinals skews the reality of the situation often; CJ, Hump and now Beachum.

 

[PACardsFan]

Beach has been one of the best swing tackles in the league for years.
The problem is, because he comes off the bench, any effective DC automatically moves his best pass rusher to go against Beachum. So while his stats/performance may not be impressive on its face he is usually facing the best pass rushers the league has to offer...consistently.

I mean really...if you were a DC unleashing a Watt or a Bosa,...would you have him facing PJJ?? Or Beachum?
Regardless of that, he still holds his own. It may not be pretty but he rarely blows a block or gives up a sack.

what more can you reasonably expect from a guy who not only comes off the bench...but has to train for both sides instead of just one?

I understand where you’re coming from, but when your starting RT goes down at the end of the 1st quarter of your opener & Beachum is your backup……you’re pretty much screwed. I was at the Buffalo game & he single handedly cost us that game. He has value because he can play either tackle side, but he’s still awful. The rookie Jones from TX was significantly better down the stretch. At least on the right side. And there in lies the problem if you lose your starting LT.

 

[BACH]

Maybe 2-3 years ago.. but the guy has been washed an awful the last few seasons. It’s a reason why he’s so cheap and no one else wants him.. to his respect, no shame on him as it’s a commendable he’s still in the league at his age and lack of talent.

I understand where you’re coming from, but when your starting RT goes down at the end of the 1st quarter of your opener & Beachum is your backup……you’re pretty much screwed. I was at the Buffalo game & he single handedly cost us that game. He has value because he can play either tackle side, but he’s still awful. The rookie Jones from TX was significantly better down the stretch. At least on the right side. And there in lies the problem if you lose your starting LT.

I honestly do not think you watch a lot of NFL with this take.

I do agree that he’s not a starter level player. But Beachum played in 15 games and gave up 4 sacks. That is VERY good numbers for a back-up tackle. The reality of the league is that no one has a starting caliber level player at back-up OT.

 

[DaHilg]

I honestly do not think you watch a lot of NFL with this take.

I do agree that he’s not a starter level player. But Beachum played in 15 games and gave up 4 sacks. That is VERY good numbers for a back-up tackle. The reality of the league is that no one has a starting caliber level at back-up OT.

I honestly think you think you know more about football than you actually do… Kyler avoids a ton of sacks, the he played 14 games and gave up 4 sacks is extremely misleading. Especially including our dink and dunk passing game and 20th in pass attempts in the league.

The reality is Beachum was just as horrible as your take. Relying on that giving up sacks with one of the most mobile QB who literally does not want to take a hit as we all know is a VERY poor take. In fact, one would question even you even watch football? As a simple eye test you could see how poor not only Beachum’s pass pro was but our OLine as a whole.

 

[BACH]

I honestly think you think you know more about football than you actually do… Kyler avoids a ton of sacks, the he played 14 games and gave up 4 sacks is extremely misleading. Especially including our dink and dunk passing game and 20th in pass attempts in the league.

The reality is Beachum was just as horrible as your take. Relying on that giving up sacks with one of the most mobile QB who literally does not want to take a hit as we all know is a VERY poor take. In fact, one would question even you even watch football? As a simple eye test you could see how poor not only Beachum’s pass pro was but our OLine as a whole.

I don’t pretend to be an expert. And never said I am more knowledgeable than you.

Only problem is, that there is plenty of stats and metrics on this and it all support my view more than yours.

No need to throw personal insults around. Just prove your point with facts.

 

[DaHilg]

I don’t pretend to be an expert. And never said I am more knowledgeable than you.

Only problem is, that there is plenty of stats and metrics on this and it all support my view more than yours.

No need to throw personal insults around. Just prove your point with facts.

I’m going to have to disagree.. I think the facts I stated hold more water than your lame, “Beachum gave up 4 sacks in 14 games so he was amazing for a backup.”.

Wasn’t the case at all..

- Fact.. we were 20th in pass attempts
- Fact.. our offense by design and our QB choose to dink and dunk pass= less sacks
- Fact.. outside of Kyler’s rookie year he has been 16th or lower in total sacks taken. We’ve had some pretty atrocious OLine’s as they seem to get injured every year and were never star studded to begin with. He’s good at not getting hit bc of his abilities and the fact he knows his body can’t take the hits.

Oh ya, this is all while being in the NFC West against historically during his tenure the best pass rushing Dlines in the league. So, yes he must pretty good at avoiding getting sacks because we haven’t had much talent protecting him over the years.

And get out with your soft “personal insults” line. My comment in my post was no more soft of an insult as your “you don’t watch any football”. Grow up pal.

 

[BACH]

I’m going to have to disagree.. I think the facts I stated hold more water than your lame, “Beachum gave up 4 sacks in 14 games so he was amazing for a backup.”.

Wasn’t the case at all..

- Fact.. we were 20th in pass attempts
- Fact.. our offense by design and our QB choose to dink and dunk pass= less sacks
- Fact.. outside of Kyler’s rookie year he has been 16th or lower in total sacks taken. We’ve had some pretty atrocious OLine’s as they seem to get injured every year and were never star studded to begin with. He’s good at not getting hit bc of his abilities and the fact he knows his body can’t take the hits.

Oh ya, this is all while being in the NFC West against historically during his tenure the best pass rushing Dlines in the league. So, yes he must pretty good at avoiding getting sacks because we haven’t had much talent protecting him over the years.

And get out with your soft “personal insults” line. My comment in my post was no more soft of an insult as your “you don’t watch any football”. Grow up pal.

- Can you show me 10 teams with a better back-up tackle? And a starting level OT. That is the core of the discussion.

- We can expand the metrics from sacks to hits, hurries, pressured and the result will be the same. Beachum has solid numbers.

- You forgot the rushing aspect of the O-line. 2nd best rushing attack in the NFL in efficiency. This is a run heavy offense and you just decided to take away 60% of all snaps from the analysis. Sorry, no can do.

 

[DaHilg]

- Can you show me 10 teams with a better back-up tackle? And a starting level OT. That is the core of the discussion.

- We can expand the metrics from sacks to hits, hurries, pressured and the result will be the same. Beachum has solid numbers.

- You forgot the rushing aspect of the O-line. 2nd best rushing attack in the NFL in efficiency. This is a run heavy offense and you just decided to take away 60% of all snaps from the analysis. Sorry, no can do.

Our Oline was excellent at run blocking - a lot to do with Petz run scheme (about the only thing Petz showed he was competent at)… but anyways if you want to hang your hat on A 98 year old Kelvin Beachum playing for ~$2mm as a top 10 backup tackle in the league - then I think your burying your own grave on this topic.. regardless have a good night as I’m not going to waste my time on something so futile w an individual w that perspective.

 

[BACH]

Our Oline was excellent at run blocking - a lot to do with Petz run scheme (about the only thing Petz showed he was competent at)… but anyways if you want to hang your hat on A 98 year old Kelvin Beachum playing for ~$2mm as a top 10 backup tackle in the league - then I think your burying your own grave on this topic.. regardless have a good night as I’m not going to waste my time on something so futile w an individual w that perspective.

I think getting 4M a season at 38 years old to be a back-up proves my point that he’s a good back-up.

You are contesting that Beachum is a solid back-up. I’ve asked you to find 10 better OT back-ups. No reply…

Fact of the matter and the reasoning I mentioned you not following the league is that you seem to neglect that there is a severe talent deficiency at OT in the league. You have players at Beachum’s level getting paid insane money to be starters while not being very good. Beachum would be getting the same if not for age. That is my point.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

Think yall need to de-escalate. No doubt the offensive line needs some love next off season, as it really only has one franchise long term lock right now in PJjr. Hopefully Jonah Williams makes it back in time in football shape that the beach arguement is a moot point for this season.

In my humble opinion- if our oline can stay healthy- I think they can be a very solid to above average unit in the NFL. I’ve said it before, would love if we can bring will hernandez back- even if for depth/it’s clear Adams is not making progress.

 

[CardNots]

it’s clear Adams is not making progress.

hmmm