Luka Doncic Rookie of the Year

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Cardsmasochist, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    I am not sure what you're saying is really any different than me. I mentioned his blocks and FT attempts which is an indication that he isn't asserting himself enough on the inside. That is all about position and he should be dominating more players down low.

    So no...it's not just an eye test. It's evident in those two stat lines what he needs to work on.

    When I say overblown it's because other parts of his game actually REQUIRE him to be aggressive. So when someone uses a general term about him being passive I think it's more focused than that and not exactly fair to other parts of his game.

    I think we both agree that he needs to be less passive when it comes to positioning and banging bodies. I just wish some days he wouldn't lay up or settle for those jump shots. Just go up there and dunk on someone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  2. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    Chauncey Billups, maybe? I don't remember Chauncey doing much before he was a Piston. He bounced around a lot so it might have been finding a team that allowed him to step up his game. Ben Wallace was good in Orlando but managed to step up in Detroit also. He fell off after leaving Detroit pretty quick, and that could be for numerous reasons. That could have been because he got a huge payday or it might have been winning a title, that can satisfy a player's drive. I think Garnett and Paul Pierce took steps back quicker than they should have because they won a title.

    Jermaine O'Neal stepped up quite a bit after his 5th year in the league. He left Portland after 4 years but he made a leap in between years 4 and 5. He was averaging 12.9 a game in Indiana to 19 the next year. His role was the same, starting PF, and his minutes increased some but he was a starter both years.

    Dragic is an example of someone who turned it on later in his career, I think. He went from being an average starting PG to an All-Star caliber player in that first year under Hornacek.

    There are other players that have stepped up later in their career but it's almost always linked to a contract year and the player falling back down to their normal level. I think Jermaine O'Neal early on in Indiana and Dragic in his second run as a Sun are two of the better examples of players stepping up later than usual and staying at a high level beyond that breakout season.
     
  3. hcsilla

    hcsilla Registered User

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    I think that Billups is an excellent example.

    He was an average scoring PG who got traded a lot then he signed to the Wolves as a backup, showed some signs of life, Dumars signed to an MLE-deal and he suddenly became the best player of the Pistons that crushed the Lakers in the 2004 NBA Final.
     
  4. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    One thing that doesn't show in most standard stats or regularly used advanced stats for Ayton is what he averaged per quarter. I'd be willing to bet he scored 2/3 of his points in the first half compared to the second half and he probably attempted 70% or more of his shots in the first half compared to second. Does anyone know a site with per quarter stats? I can find how much he scored per quarter on NBA.com but I can't figure out how to get it to show a season average, it only shows a complete game log which is 71 games and I don't want to do the math myself to figure out what percentage of his totals were scored in the first quarter and the first half of each game vs what he ended up with for the game.

    I know people will blame coaching for that and while coaching is part of the blame it is not everything. Ayton was not assertive in the 2nd half like he was in the 1st. Some nights it seemed like he got his double double so he was going through the motions for the rest of the game, which is part of why Holmes saw a lot of time in the 4th quarter.
     
  5. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Got it.
     
  6. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    While I’m unsure I agree with your “why” I certainly agree that his numbers fell of dramatically after the first quarter. And I don’t think it was limited to his scoring - that was just the most obvious. I think his rebounding had a tendency to tail off to. And while we can blame coaching, in part, for that occurring with scoring, I think it’s all on Ayton for that occurring with rebounding.
     
  7. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    I am sure if you go back to stories about these guys some were probably about them not being assertive or passive about their game and they needed to step up.
     
  8. Suns_fan69

    Suns_fan69 Official ASFN Lurker

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    1Sun Banned

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    95pro Registered

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  11. Yuma

    Yuma I got a job! Thanks BigRedRage!

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    Lots of guys are stars in college. For example, Kurt Rambis was, and maybe still is, the all time leading scorer at Santa Clara. Steve Nash went there later. Rambis was a big deal when he was there. Lots of guys are the big guy on campus at their college. A lot of times their first adversity is in the NBA.
     
  12. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    https://fadeawayworld.com/2017/11/09/top-10-best-late-bloomers-in-nba-history/

    Almost any four year college player would fit in this category too, if you are comparing with Ayton.

    LOTS of players took until 22-23 to finally develop. In fact, this is mroe the rule than the exception.
     
  13. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    Kurt Rambis was the first "famous" person I ever met. I was like 6, I think. He was on the Suns at the time and he came into my school for a classmates birthday for some reason. He was friends with the kids dad, somehow. Everyone was guessing it would be KJ or Majerle coming in because they were hyping a Phoenix Sun coming in. Then here comes Kurt Rambis' goofy ass to disappoint a bunch of 1st graders. No one knew who he was and I think most kids didn't believe he played in the NBA. You couldn't really tell by looking at him. I know he was tall but when you're that young there isn't much of a difference in height between adults, all of them are much taller than you are.
     
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  14. leclerc

    leclerc The smooth operator

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    That's horse manure right there IMO.

    They're both crafty. Other than that... I just can't see it man.
     
  15. Yuma

    Yuma I got a job! Thanks BigRedRage!

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    I haven't seen enough of Luka to see if he has that drive like Nash had to try and win every single game. Sometimes I see Luka's face and he looks like he's just cruising. Not like he's concerned if they lose. Just happy to play the game.
     

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