LeBron vs MJ

Who’s the GOAT?

  • Jordan

    Votes: 37 97.4%
  • LeBron

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38

dreamcastrocks

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If you didnt say Jordan then you dont know sports.
With statements like this, I'd say you don't know how to debate.
That's not really a statement that makes for good discussion. I can understand the argument and it is very generational based.
Exactly. I am old enough to follow both players. LeBron has the longevity that Jordan just didn't have.
 

Covert Rain

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The no hand checking and weak defensive teams propensity to play zone?!?!

JORDON WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY.

I would argue almost all of his offensive numbers would have been much higher.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think the what if discussion with Kobe is an interesting one. Jordan went to a terrible team, as did Lebron. And with some help raised them to championship caliber. Kobe went to a talented team with the single greatest talent any of the three of them ever played alongside (shaq). Kobe certainly earned his accolades - particularly when shaq was gone. But what if Kobe had been drafted by Vancouver or Milwaukee? What would’ve happened with his career? Does he become Dominique Wilkins? Vince Carter?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The no hand checking and weak defensive teams propensity to play zone?!?!

JORDON WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY.

I would argue almost all of his offensive numbers would have been much higher.
Right. Think of SGA, but Jordan.
 
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Dan H

Dan H

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With statements like this, I'd say you don't know how to debate.

Exactly. I am old enough to follow both players. LeBron has the longevity that Jordan just didn't have.
I would argue that Jordan didn’t have the longevity because he was getting the crap beaten out of him night in and night out.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I would argue that Jordan didn’t have the longevity because he was getting the crap beaten out of him night in and night out.
And there is an argument to be made for it, thus a debate.

People say that Jordan is the GOAT, but there is a strong case for Bill Russell too.
 
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Dan H

Dan H

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And there is an argument to be made for it, thus a debate.

People say that Jordan is the GOAT, but there is a strong case for Bill Russell too.
I would go with Russell, as well, but I don’t think Bill has said in an interview he’s the GOAT like LeBron has. ;)
 

Lorenzo

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I don’t think the Rockets win their championships if he doesn’t retire.

I think there’s a good chance they go for 8 in a row.
No question for me that Jordan is the best player I’ve ever watched. Lebron is right there though. Kobe too. I think the argument can be made lebron is better than Kobe. No way KD is better than Kobe. I wouldn’t put KD over curry, dirk, Tim Duncan, or d-wade.

The 2nd year that the rockets swept the magic was when Jordan came back. That was the year the magic eliminated jordan who allegedly wasn’t in his best game shape. I actually think the rockets would have had the best chance at beating the bulls, but their window closed quickly after they won in 95. I still would have picked the bulls to win. It feels like even with those 2 titles Hakeem is often overlooked. there is no question in my mind that he is better than shaq and Tim Duncan both as a low post player, defender, and he was a phenomenal mid range shooter.
 

Phrazbit

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No question for me that Jordan is the best player I’ve ever watched. Lebron is right there though. Kobe too. I think the argument can be made lebron is better than Kobe. No way KD is better than Kobe. I wouldn’t put KD over curry, dirk, Tim Duncan, or d-wade.

The 2nd year that the rockets swept the magic was when Jordan came back. That was the year the magic eliminated jordan who allegedly wasn’t in his best game shape. I actually think the rockets would have had the best chance at beating the bulls, but their window closed quickly after they won in 95. I still would have picked the bulls to win. It feels like even with those 2 titles Hakeem is often overlooked. there is no question in my mind that he is better than shaq and Tim Duncan both as a low post player, defender, and he was a phenomenal mid range shooter.

Watching Jordan was unlike watching any athlete I've seen.

I hated those Bulls teams, watching them, wanting them to lose but knowing, literally knowing they were not going to lose, at least not when it really mattered. It might be back and forth all game long, the Bulls might be down multiple scores late... but you knew "It doesn't matter, Jordan is going to absolutely take over the game, on both ends, in the closing minutes and the Bulls will win."

Never had that feeling watching anything else.

Other than knowing the Cardinals will lose maybe.
 

Devilmaycare

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A better question here is LeBron or Steph for the best post-Jordan generation player. LeBron vs Jordan is a joke question at this point.
 

Lorenzo

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Watching Jordan was unlike watching any athlete I've seen.

I hated those Bulls teams, watching them, wanting them to lose but knowing, literally knowing they were not going to lose, at least not when it really mattered. It might be back and forth all game long, the Bulls might be down multiple scores late... but you knew "It doesn't matter, Jordan is going to absolutely take over the game, on both ends, in the closing minutes and the Bulls will win."

Never had that feeling watching anything else.

Other than knowing the Cardinals will lose maybe.
That sums up how I felt. And as soon as MJ left after 1998 there was a basketball void for me until the mavericks were playing well with nash, finely, and dirk. I finally had a team to root for instead of rooting against MJ all the time. I hated MJ when he played, but I missed him after he was gone. I’ve never seen an American athlete like him when he was with the bulls in the 1990’s.
 

itlnsunsfan

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Up to this point, Stef Curry has made 3,568 3pt field goals with an average of 43% 3pt shooting on 9.1 3pt attempts per game in his career. He is unanimously considered the greatest 3pt shooter of all time. However, say a player comes along and averages 50% 3pt shooting on 14 attempts per game. He does this for 5 injury free seasons where he plays every game, including deep runs in the playoffs. He then retires. Stef Curry still has more career 3pt field goals made but can we still say Stef Curry is the greatest 3pt shooter ever? This is my problem with the longevity argument.

Bill Russell has more rings than anyone. He was the defensive engine for the Celtics dynasty, and arguably the most dominant defensive force of all time. However, he was not the offensive engine of those teams. Not even close. When it comes to the most fundamental aspect of basketball, putting the ball in the basket, he was relatively middling. He also had the good fortune of playing alongside 12 Hall of Fame teammates in his career. This is my problem with the rings argument.

If I could pick one player in their prime in NBA history to play in and win game 7 for the NBA title, I pick Jordan. Hands down. He is arguably the most dominant offensive player ever, he is arguably the most dominant defensive guard ever, and perhaps most importantly, his will to win was the most dominant. No one has ever been more psychotically determined to win at NBA basketball than him. He outwilled the most willful over and over and over again. That's why I would pick him for game 7. And that's why, to me, he's the GOAT.
 
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GatorAZ

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Imagine what MJ might have done statistically and title-wise had he not been forced into "retiring" due to gambling issues?

Missing 94’ and part of 95’ was the best thing to happen to his title count. He was burned out after 93’ and players were sick of him. It’s why they played so well in 94’ before coming back to earth the next year. Jordan came back rested and motivated.
 

swagron

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There’s that, and there’s also the fact that Jordan would probably average 50 a game with today’s rules. No hand-checking, no hard contact? Holy crap.

Conversely, LeBron would cry like a baby if he had to play the Bad Boys-era Pistons.
All these NBA players would be worse whiny babies during the bad boys era. 50/60/70 point games..that’s not basketball. That’s video games. Can’t stand all the flopping, whining etc.

That being said LeBron is the goat. LeBron would still be dominant in any era. Not sure why everyone hates on him. Never a peep or scandal in 20 years. Jordan had a lot of skeletons that nobody talks about.
 

Covert Rain

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All these NBA players would be worse whiny babies during the bad boys era. 50/60/70 point games..that’s not basketball. That’s video games. Can’t stand all the flopping, whining etc.

That being said LeBron is the goat. LeBron would still be dominant in any era. Not sure why everyone hates on him. Never a peep or scandal in 20 years. Jordan had a lot of skeletons that nobody talks about.
I don't see anybody hating on LeBron. Just the vast majority don't think he is the GOAT. Also, this thread wasn't talking about players as PEOPLE but as basketball players so I don't see how "skeletons" factors in.
 

swagron

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I don't see anybody hating on LeBron. Just the vast majority don't think he is the GOAT. Also, this thread wasn't talking about players as PEOPLE but as basketball players so I don't see how "skeletons" factors in.
Understood. I still think LeBron is the goat.
 
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