Kyler Murray No-Shows at Draft Charity Event

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is plenty of dislike of Rosen for whatever reason, just go and look yourself. I don’t need to do research for you

Uh, you’re the one that made the claim. I’m questioning the veracity of your claim. It’s your responsibility to support your claim, otherwise I call bs and lame argument putting words in others mouths. They may not like rosen’s chances to succeed but I don’t recall anyone getting personal at josh the way I’ve seen the anti-Murray crowd bash him as a person.

 

[bojack]

I hear he was at a MLB charity event instead.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Pretty clear it’s want, it’s almost comical and he is far from the only one.

Show me where he said that and I’m all good. But absent those words being typed by him it’s your interpretation. And frankly you’re likely making a leap from someone believing Rosen is not good to wanting him not to be good. I find it difficult to believe any cardinals fan wants one of our players to fail. If they do I don’t understand their fandom.

 

[Solar7]

Uh, you’re the one that made the claim. I’m questioning the veracity of your claim. It’s your responsibility to support your claim, otherwise I call bs and lame argument putting words in others mouths. They may not like rosen’s chances to succeed but I don’t recall anyone getting personal at josh the way I’ve seen the anti-Murray crowd bash him as a person.

There's so many threads on this same topic that going back and digging for quotes is pointless.

Plenty of the Murray crowd has called Josh the worst QB to ever play the game, pushed hard on his leadership/character, and more. We're playing semantics here if you think it's not relevant without exact quotes. This isn't the presidency or end of the world.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There's so many threads on this same topic that going back and digging for quotes is pointless.

Plenty of the Murray crowd has called Josh the worst QB to ever play the game, pushed hard on his leadership/character, and more. We're playing semantics here if you think it's not relevant without exact quotes. This isn't the presidency or end of the world.

Dude it’s not semantics to say someone sucks verses you want them to fail. Those are huge differences. Do you not understand the difference between expecting failure verses wanting failure? If you think that’s semantics I don’t know what to tell you, you’re just wrong.

Cue BW telling me I’m trying to be smarter than everyone, yada yada yada.

 

[Solar7]

Show me where he said that and I’m all good. But absent those words being typed by him it’s your interpretation. And frankly you’re likely making a leap from someone believing Rosen is not good to wanting him not to be good. I find it difficult to believe any cardinals fan wants one of our players to fail. If they do I don’t understand their fandom.

He's not "our player" yet, but if we draft Kyler, I'm pretty much, where we stand right now, sitting with a very sour taste in my mouth about everything that went down in the past few months, from discussions on the board, to the talking heads out there who have the guy going #1 despite being way down their draft boards.

I hope my mind changes if he puts on that hat or jersey, and something else changes, but I'm going to be honest, I'm almost rooting for him to flop. Mainly, so we can move on from him as fast as possible and shut down the narrative of the Cardinals never taking risks. Teach MB to build this team from the ground up, for continued success.

My worst F'ing nightmare is watching the guy halfway flounder into year 5 like Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, where we're going to have to probably accept cutting ties with him, or paying him crazy coin to have us slightly contend for a wild card.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

My worst F'ing nightmare is watching the guy halfway flounder into year 5 like Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, where we're going to have to probably accept cutting ties with him, or paying him crazy coin to have us slightly contend for a wild card.

Sounds like something much more likely to happen with Rosen than Murray.

 

[Solar7]

Dude it’s not semantics to say someone sucks verses you want them to fail. Those are huge differences. Do you not understand the difference between expecting failure verses wanting failure? If you think that’s semantics I don’t know what to tell you, you’re just wrong.

Cue BW telling me I’m trying to be smarter than everyone, yada yada yada.

I get it. The issue is context. Not everyone speaks straightforwardly. The people @Zeno and I are talking about seem to have such disdain for Rosen that they want just about anyone to replace him. They think he's garbage, trash, and will be a bottom feeder QB for his career.

Is that "wanting" him to fail, necessarily? I guess no, if we're parsing words. But it's pretty much "replace him no matter what."

 

[Chris_Sanders]

He's not "our player" yet, but if we draft Kyler, I'm pretty much, where we stand right now, sitting with a very sour taste in my mouth about everything that went down in the past few months, from discussions on the board, to the talking heads out there who have the guy going #1 despite being way down their draft boards.

I hope my mind changes if he puts on that hat or jersey, and something else changes, but I'm going to be honest, I'm almost rooting for him to flop. Mainly, so we can move on from him as fast as possible and shut down the narrative of the Cardinals never taking risks. Teach MB to build this team from the ground up, for continued success.

My worst F'ing nightmare is watching the guy halfway flounder into year 5 like Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, where we're going to have to probably accept cutting ties with him, or paying him crazy coin to have us slightly contend for a wild card.

So the Athletic has a 36 mock draft combined board and Murray's range is from #1 to #35 but the average is about #7

 

[Solar7]

Sounds like something much more likely to happen with Rosen than Murray.

We've already sunk one year into Rosen. If Rosen doesn't perform, there's nothing at all wrong with making a move for another QB in 2020, whether that's the best the best in the draft, or even a move for another guy to compete.

With Murray, we are absolutely, completely, stuck. You say it's not likely for Murray, but he has SO many red flags that I just can't understand it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's not "our player" yet, but if we draft Kyler, I'm pretty much, where we stand right now, sitting with a very sour taste in my mouth about everything that went down in the past few months, from discussions on the board, to the talking heads out there who have the guy going #1 despite being way down their draft boards.

I hope my mind changes if he puts on that hat or jersey, and something else changes, but I'm going to be honest, I'm almost rooting for him to flop. Mainly, so we can move on from him as fast as possible and shut down the narrative of the Cardinals never taking risks. Teach MB to build this team from the ground up, for continued success.

My worst F'ing nightmare is watching the guy halfway flounder into year 5 like Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, where we're going to have to probably accept cutting ties with him, or paying him crazy coin to have us slightly contend for a wild card.

I certainly don’t want to see the Jameis scenario you outline, but I’m not rooting against anyone we draft. Even Bosa who I think is likely a douche. I’ll still root for him to succeed bc it benefits the cards. I might not be happy he’s on the team but I’ll hope he succeeds with us. This hatred of Murray is almost like those fans who just love a player and change their allegiances whenever the player changes teams only in the bizarro deeply negative reverse. I just can’t see harboring so much hatred for someone you don’t even know that you’d root against your own team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I get it. The issue is context. Not everyone speaks straightforwardly. The people @Zeno and I are talking about seem to have such disdain for Rosen that they want just about anyone to replace him. They think he's garbage, trash, and will be a bottom feeder QB for his career.

Is that "wanting" him to fail, necessarily? I guess no, if we're parsing words. But it's pretty much "replace him no matter what."

Again it’s not parsing words. Words have meaning. Defined meaning. We can’t change their meaning to suit our narratives. If Rosen proves them wrong I’m sure they’d be happy to root for him. They just don’t believe in him.

 

[Solar7]

So the Athletic has a 36 mock draft combined board and Murray's range is from #1 to #35 but the average is about #7

Which proves my point, I guess?

I've said time and time again, deeper into the draft, I'd be the guy waving a flag on top of the bandwagon for Murray. I loved Mahomes, Watson, even wanted Trubisky if he fell. At #7? Sign me up. Not at #1.

...Not to mention, this isn't about mock drafts, because everyone in the media got caught up with KK's quote about the #1 pick, but it's about the actual rankings. The guy isn't even the #1 QB on most boards, much less the most talented player.

 

[POISON]

My favorites where larry Wilson,John David Crow,Sonny Randle,Charlie Johnson,jackie Smith,Bobby Joe Conrad then when Johnny Roland was drafted in 66 I think I thought he was going to be

My favorites where larry Wilson,John David Crow,Sonny Randle,Charlie Johnson,jackie Smith,Bobby Joe Conrad then when Johnny Roland was drafted in 66 I think I thought he was going to be the next great Rb.Then he torn his knee and was never the same.Solid but never a star again.My brother and I collected baseball and football cards fro the late 50`s till 68-69 and when I went to college and my brother went in the service my stepdad threw all of them away.We still tease him about throwing them away.Lots of big money Cards got tossed.
I still had the article from larry Wilsons retirement after 72 season until flooded basement ruined a bunch of old sports books and stuff several years back.

the next great Rb.Then he torn his knee and was never the same.Solid but never a star again.My brother and I collected baseball and football cards fro the late 50`s till 68-69 and when I went to college and my brother went in the service my stepdad threw all of them away.We still tease him about throwing them away.Lots of big money Cards got tossed.
I still had the article from larry Wilsons retirement after 72 season until flooded basement ruined a bunch of old sports books and stuff several years back.

Dang that sucks, you guys probably had some money awaiting. I saved every one, in the thousands. They are still in excellent condition. I'm glad I didn't use a clothes pin on the bike wheel lol. My Dad, may he RIP had an awesome baseball card collection and it got pitched like yours. People had no clue back then that they would be worth something.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We've already sunk one year into Rosen. If Rosen doesn't perform, there's nothing at all wrong with making a move for another QB in 2020, whether that's the best the best in the draft, or even a move for another guy to compete.

With Murray, we are absolutely, completely, stuck. You say it's not likely for Murray, but he has SO many red flags that I just can't understand it.

Hmm, I know a first round QB in a year after selecting a QB is highly unusual. But is there any historical support for taking another in the first round just two years after having already done so? I think that’s just as likely.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

We've already sunk one year into Rosen. If Rosen doesn't perform, there's nothing at all wrong with making a move for another QB in 2020, whether that's the best the best in the draft, or even a move for another guy to compete.

With Murray, we are absolutely, completely, stuck. You say it's not likely for Murray, but he has SO many red flags that I just can't understand it.

I'm saying it's not likely for Murray because he will either boom or he will bust. Rosen is much more likely to play well enough to remain the starter for 4 years but not well enough to know whether he deserves a big second contract. In my opinion.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Which proves my point, I guess?

I've said time and time again, deeper into the draft, I'd be the guy waving a flag on top of the bandwagon for Murray. I loved Mahomes, Watson, even wanted Trubisky if he fell. At #7? Sign me up. Not at #1.

...Not to mention, this isn't about mock drafts, because everyone in the media got caught up with KK's quote about the #1 pick, but it's about the actual rankings. The guy isn't even the #1 QB on most boards, much less the most talented player.

So with this big of variance according to the Athletic, it is a 50/50 Superstar or Bust. Which exactly fits how I rank Murray.

 

[Solar7]

I certainly don’t want to see the Jameis scenario you outline, but I’m not rooting against anyone we draft. Even Bosa who I think is likely a douche. I’ll still root for him to succeed bc it benefits the cards. I might not be happy he’s on the team but I’ll hope he succeeds with us. This hatred of Murray is almost like those fans who just love a player and change their allegiances whenever the player changes teams only in the bizarro deeply negative reverse. I just can’t see harboring so much hatred for someone you don’t even know that you’d root against your own team.

I don't even hate Murray. Has nothing to do with the kid. He's probably a pretty good person. That has nothing to do with how I feel about how he will benefit my favorite team. If he's awesome, I will be the first to turn tail and admit how wrong I was. Good luck to him, as a person.

As a fan of seeing my team win, I think it is a tremendous mistake, and I hope the Cardinals learn a harsh lesson.

Again it’s not parsing words. Words have meaning. Defined meaning. We can’t change their meaning to suit our narratives. If Rosen proves them wrong I’m sure they’d be happy to root for him. They just don’t believe in him.

I'm just backing up Zeno here. I'm not gonna go dig through posts. All I can do is pass along the vibe I've gotten from them (and others).

 

[Solar7]

Hmm, I know a first round QB in a year after selecting a QB is highly unusual. But is there any historical support for taking another in the first round just two years after having already done so? I think that’s just as likely.

I can't name it off the top of my head, but I look at it more like the Peyton vs. Luck argument... the significant amount of questions about Peyton's health, despite what he contributed to that franchise, combined with the can't miss nature of Luck, is what led to them making that decision.

I'm saying it's not likely for Murray because he will either boom or he will bust. Rosen is much more likely to play well enough to remain the starter for 4 years but not well enough to know whether he deserves a big second contract. In my opinion.

So with this big of variance according to the Athletic, it is a 50/50 Superstar or Bust. Which exactly fits how I rank Murray.

Same reply for both thoughts... it seems to me like you guys are too excited about superstardom, which we're probably not going to get, no matter the choice. But we could come away with a very strong defensive player and an adequate QB, which is a recipe for winning... not fantasy points.

 

[POISON]

I am only going to warn you once about calling someone a loser or other direct attacks like this.

It's the day before the draft and I don't want to ban anyone so please keep it to a dull heat instead of a flame war

Still. I don’t recall them explicitly stating they want Rosen to fail. I’ll acquiesce if someone can quote them, but otherwise I’m assuming this is more putting words in others mouths.

I've never said I want Rosen to fail ever. I think Murray is the better QB. Its my opinion and I stand by it. I'll root for Rosen otherwise . We're supposed to be on the same team here btw. People need to chill out on here....

 

[Syracusecards]

Jon Gruden is holding his car keys above Kiler’s head and keeps pulling them up when Kiler tries to jump up and grab them so he can get to the event, thus ensuring Kiler will slide to #4 with no trade needed due to bad optics from missing a charity event.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

I can't name it off the top of my head, but I look at it more like the Peyton vs. Luck argument... the significant amount of questions about Peyton's health, despite what he contributed to that franchise, combined with the can't miss nature of Luck, is what led to them making that decision.




Same reply for both thoughts... it seems to me like you guys are too excited about superstardom, which we're probably not going to get, no matter the choice. But we could come away with a very strong defensive player and an adequate QB, which is a recipe for winning... not fantasy points.

I'm not too excited about Murray, the only point of my post was that I don't think there will be a question in year 4 as to whether he will deserve a second contract or not, which was your worst nightmare. With Rosen I could see that happening. My ideal draft for the Cardinals would be for them to trade down to 4 and pick up some additional picks.

 

[Solar7]

I'm not too excited about Murray, the only point of my post was that I don't think there will be a question in year 4 as to whether he will deserve a second contract or not, which was your worst nightmare. With Rosen I could see that happening. My ideal draft for the Cardinals would be for them to trade down to 4 and pick up some additional picks.

Right on, I'm with you. But we've already made the Rosen move. I'm just hoping we don't defer the same problem even more.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

We will all know if the Cardinals avoid this potential disaster tomorrow. If they draft Murray, the Cardinals have the potential be a historical laughing stock. On a positive note, the Diamondbacks look good

 

[dscher]

It’s amazing to me that all you have to do is not be a prick or smoke marijuana for about one year and you won’t cost yourself a fortune. I hope this guy drops like a rock if we pass on him.

....the hate is strong in this one