Kiper on DT's

[Russ Smith]

I can't read the whole article since i'm not an "insider", but apparently Kiper says Robertson's workout on campus was so good he's vaulted ahead of Jimmy Kennedy on Kiper's draft board.

Anybody who is an insider what reason did Kiper give, 40 time?

I still think coming out of this draft with Robertson in round 1 wouldn't be such a bad thing I think he's going to be a very good player and would really fit well next to Bryant.

If we can't get Suggs or Leftwich I'm quite happy with DeWayne Robertson.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Russ Smith


Anybody who is an insider what reason did Kiper give, 40 time?

The "individual workout" times are so asinine this year it's ridiculous, like when georgia had their "pro day" and every single guy was announced under 4.8 and they said Boss Bailey ran a 4.31. I mean "individual workout" numbers are always ridiculously inflated by scouts and agents but this is too much.

For the record I think they said Robertson ran a 4.71 and he must have been on a rocket-propelled skateboard to do it.

 

[AZCB34]

Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by Ed B
For the record I think they said Robertson ran a 4.71 and he must have been on a rocket-propelled skateboard to do it.

Was that the ACME model?

Can someone please enlighten me on something? All these 40 times. Who times them and why do we get the wide discrepancies in times for the same player? Isn't there an offical clock or is it really every idiot with a stopwatch timing it on his own? Why can't they do it like the Olympics where there is an official time clock and that is what it is?

It is just like the fibs about height and weight...when everyone knows they are BS.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by Ed B
The "individual workout" times are so asinine this year it's ridiculous, like when georgia had their "pro day" and every single guy was announced under 4.8 and they said Boss Bailey ran a 4.31. I mean "individual workout" numbers are always ridiculously inflated by scouts and agents but this is too much.

For the record I think they said Robertson ran a 4.71 and he must have been on a rocket-propelled skateboard to do it.

Actually his agent said he could run a 4.7, but at the pro day he ran a 4.8, which is pretty decent for a man that's 320.

(William Joseph ran a 5.3 ugh....)

 

[Ed B]

Re: Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by AZCB34
Was that the ACME model?

Can someone please enlighten me on something? All these 40 times. Who times them and why do we get the wide discrepancies in times for the same player? Isn't there an offical clock or is it really every idiot with a stopwatch timing it on his own? Why can't they do it like the Olympics where there is an official time clock and that is what it is?

It is just like the fibs about height and weight...when everyone knows they are BS.

The 40s at individual workouts are timed by stopwatch. It's a total farce, the margin of error is +/- several tenths of a second. I mean, think about it, 0.1 seconds is the flick of an eyelash, an excited coach or scout can easily shave 0.3 or more off a 40 time.

Most receivers (if laser-timed) would actually be running between 4.6 and 4.7 but they end up being reported between 4.3 and 4.4 for this reason.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by Ed B
The 40s at individual workouts are timed by stopwatch. It's a total farce, the margin of error is +/- several tenths of a second. I mean, think about it, 0.1 seconds is the flick of an eyelash, an excited coach or scout can easily shave 0.3 or more off a 40 time.

Most receivers (if laser-timed) would actually be running between 4.6 and 4.7 but they end up being reported between 4.3 and 4.4 for this reason.

So, by this logic....Dewayne Robertson is still pretty damn fast for a 320 pounder.

 

[conraddobler]

Which begs the question of why it's not laser timed. I mean for gosh sakes millions of dollars can ride on the times why on earth wouldn't your freakin standardize the results.

I know why agents and players would want wiggle room but the teams fork over the money why wouldn't they all throw in for a laser timed setup on both grass and turf and eliminate the confusion?

 

[Harpo]

This is exactly why I totally disregard any 40 times that aren't from the combine. At the combine there is a level playing field where everyone is electronically timed. The funny thing is that even though they have the electric timing system all the scouts sit there with there stopwatches and gathere there own times. You'll here things like, "he ran a 4.42, but I had him at 4.36 on my watch" the whole thing is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Stout]

Mark my words, we won't select a DT at #6 in this draft.

 

[Reddog]

That isn't reflected on ESPN's home page feature of Mel's Top 10..

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Stout
Mark my words, we won't select a DT at #6 in this draft.

Stout I know you have said that but I would in no way rule out a DT or a receiver. We need both. I now think the Bears will take a DL or DE and we could be easily faced with taking Leftwich or whoever. I think as Jeff pointed out if our management team sees Leftwich as one of those QB's that seldom come along you have to take him. If not then go for the defense.

 

[Reddog]

Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by Ed B
The "individual workout" times are so asinine this year it's ridiculous, like when georgia had their "pro day" and every single guy was announced under 4.8 and they said Boss Bailey ran a 4.31. I mean "individual workout" numbers are always ridiculously inflated by scouts and agents but this is too much.

For the record I think they said Robertson ran a 4.71 and he must have been on a rocket-propelled skateboard to do it.

From Dewayn's Diary on CBS.Sportsline
Even though I was a little heavy, I ran pretty well. I was timed at 4.83 and 4.84 in the forty. I thought I'd do a little better. I had been running in the low 4.7s at the track where I work out in Atlanta. Maybe my slower time was because of the different track.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/feature/0,1518,6247467_59,00.html

 

[JeffGollin]

That isn't reflected on ESPN's home page feature of Mel's Top 10..
Kiper has a lot of balls in the air. It's hard for him to make all the changes in hisratings with one one click of the mouse.

You may not see his ratings updated for one, two or three weeks.

What's important, though, is that this is the period where guys move up and down the draft boards as their Pro Day times come in to support or refute what scouts think they know about them.

I've rated Robertson above Kennedy from nearly the very beginning - not because I had any special insight. Just a gut feeling - reading between the lines of what everybody was saying - that he was more productive, nearly as big and just as athletic.

So far, you can also figure that Boller will move higher. Trufant too. And there will be more shifting as the Pro Days continue.

 

[Ed B]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kiper on DT's

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
So, by this logic....Dewayne Robertson is still pretty damn fast for a 320 pounder.

Of course. Totally. My point is just that the actual numbers are a farce, I mean to listen to the way agents and "pro day" scouts tell it, every single guy in the draft is running a 4.4 or less, like that ludicrous report from Freeney's "pro day" last year about how he ran a 4.4 at 270 pounds, it's physically impossible and Carl Lewis couldn't run a 4.3.

The fastest players are the fastest players but until they stop hand-timing the runs, the numbers will be a total joke like this.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by conraddobler
Which begs the question of why it's not laser timed. I mean for gosh sakes millions of dollars can ride on the times why on earth wouldn't your freakin standardize the results.

I know why agents and players would want wiggle room but the teams fork over the money why wouldn't they all throw in for a laser timed setup on both grass and turf and eliminate the confusion?

Because scouts like the "human element". A lot of these guys don't want to admit they're not accurate with a stopwatch. Sprinters showed a long time ago handtimes are virtually always faster than electronic times, people anticipate the finish and are slow to click the start so the result is a fast time.

If they're all on the same field at teh same time it's more relevant but that's what the combine is and half the guys decline to run so they can workout alone.

Robertson is legit, the problem Joseph has is he bulked up for the combine and predictably lost some speed. Someone will get him at a real bargain now unless he tries to play next year at 318 or whatever he currently weighs. At 295-300 he'll be a very good NFL player, he's getting really bad advice now trying to be a 320 pounder.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
.

I've rated Robertson above Kennedy from nearly the very beginning - not because I had any special insight. Just a gut feeling - reading between the lines of what everybody was saying - that he was more productive, nearly as big and just as athletic.

.[/COLOR]

agree I think Robertson is a just a better player. Kennedy plays for Penn State and got more preseason press so it takes awhile for Robertson to overcome that. When he first declared for the draft he was said to be a late first early second, then Brandt said he was a top 15 and would have started for Miami, and the ball started rolling.

I love the kid and i've only seen him play twice, it was just painfully obvious that he was the best player on the field because the opponents had 2 guys blocking him and he was STILL in their backfield on every running play. he also has the tools to become a pass rusher, he's not one yet but he's showed signs.

Kennedy might be a good player but he has to overcome the stigma of a guy who's been fat most of his career, he's not fat now but scouts are suspicious he will be again, he also has always had a problem with stamina.

Regarding players on the rise, reports are Kelley Washington ran a 4.4 40(they said this on KDUS yesterday) and is apparently at 225, if NFL teams are convinced his neck is ok(he passed every physical at the combine) he may move up even higher. If there were a trade down, Washington is a guy we could pick up that could really help us but there's a huge risk because of the injury.
He needs to overcome his reputation too, but as the guy who called KDUS said yesterday, he was better than Stallworth in college.