K1

[82CardsGrad]

Reading the whole field, recognizing blitzes and going through multiple reads isn't something the vast majority of seasoned franchise QBs had from the start. It develops over years. Maybe Kyler will never be the best full field reader or protection caller, but what he can create with his legs is what makes him special. It's very unfortunate that his running ability is often kinda held against him in here. It's a big bonus, not a burden. Take away the running from Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray beats him by miles as a pure passer. Kyler is already in the top 15 or top 12 of NFL QBs. Probably top 10 if you make a league-wide poll. Once the game slows even more down, he matures in game management, and is calm enough to find receivers on the run, he will be in the elite QB tier for years.

Kyler’s “running” in terms of being a consistent effective weapon, will last only so long. I would say at most, his running will be an effective weapon for the next 4 years...maybe 5 if he somehow avoids any number of big shots and injuries.
That said, if he doesn’t develop in all of the areas I mentioned above, he won’t last 5 more years in the NFL.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Kyler’s “running” in terms of being a consistent effective weapon, will last only so long. I would say at most, his running will be an effective weapon for the next 4 years...maybe 5 if he somehow avoids any number of big shots and injuries.
That said, if he doesn’t develop in all of the areas I mentioned above, he won’t last 5 more years in the NFL.

Disagree

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon.


Its crazy how people think you can put up 4000 yards in the NFL by not reading defenses?

What is wrong with critical thinking skills??????

 

[82CardsGrad]

Disagree

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon.


Its crazy how people think you can put up 4000 yards in the NFL by not reading defenses?

What is wrong with critical thinking skills??????

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon???? You need to give some stats to support that wild-ass claim.
If heaving up prayers to an all-world receiver in Hopkins is your definition of Kyler’s most consistent weapon - you need to watch more football...

 

[football karma]

Murray’s troubles are simply too glaring to not point out. His throwing mechanics are amateurish. His inability to make, even moderate level pre and post-snap reads is alarming. His clear unwillingness to remain in the pocket, slide in the pocket, step up in the pocket to make “that read” and “that throw” are even more alarming.
And perhaps most concerning of all is what appears to be mounting evidence of a serious lack of leadership qualities.

1. im not concerned about throwing mechanics generally. yes, fine tuning needs to take place, but that isnt the source of concern.
2. On reads -- i would amend the statement to say "consistently". He does it, just not consistently enough. IMO: that comes with more experience.
3. He was doing the step up and side step stuff in the pocket earlier this year -- curious what happened. I see the default escape is bail back and outside. Again, he does it, just not consistently. I think he needs to watch film of Russel Wilson this offseason. Russ lately has run himself into some sacks, but he also is good at manipulating angles of rushers to free himself for throws.

 

[Proximo]

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon???? You need to give some stats to support that wild-ass claim.
If heaving up prayers to an all-world receiver in Hopkins is your definition of Kyler’s most consistent weapon - you need to watch more football...

It was said on the broadcast just the other day he was the 2nd most efficient deep passer in the NFL. We don't throw enough of them is the bigger issue.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It was said on the broadcast just the other day he was the 2nd most efficient deep passer in the NFL. We don't throw enough of them is the bigger issue.

Meh... his efficiency is largely enhanced by Hopkins’ ability to make catches in traffic. And yes, he doesn’t nearly throw enough deep balls for that aspect of his game to be viewed as his “most consistent weapon.”

 

[TaylorSwift]

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon???? You need to give some stats to support that wild-ass claim.
If heaving up prayers to an all-world receiver in Hopkins is your definition of Kyler’s most consistent weapon - you need to watch more football...

And this was before the Giants and Eagles game.....

And clearly Hop has only a partial effect on it as Kyler is a great at the deep ball in the middle and to the right.

Rosen and what ever qb you wanted is trash. Lets move forward with K1

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[82CardsGrad]

And this was before the Giants and Eagles game.....

And clearly Hop has only a partial effect on it as Kyler is a great at the deep ball in the middle and to the right.

Rosen and what ever qb you wanted is trash. Lets move forward with K1

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LOL... for the record, I wanted Murray. [emoji6]

 

[Krusher kardinals]

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Lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

I blame Johnny sweeping the leg and Cobra Kai

 

[Russ Smith]

and I believe that it is Kyle's inconsistencies that make it tough to really evaluate the offensive scheme and some situational decisions.

A couple concerns of mine that I really don't know the answer to.

1-Is there are reason Kyler does not audible or utilize hot routes at that LOS? This is a very important aspect of playing QB and running a solid offense. Getting out of plays that the defense has the correct call for and into better plays is something every top QB does in the NFL. I feel like I have a guess about this, but I wish I knew.

2-Why does Kyler not set the protection? Maybe I am missing it but it seems like Cole is the one who I hear calling out the Mike and setting the protections.

3-Does Kyler call motion pre-snap? Or is that limited to a coaching or play decision. I have seen coaches do this two ways and I am really curious about this. Some coaches will design plays with pre-snnap motion and others will task their QB to determine how much pre-snap movement they want to try and identify coverage pre-snap.

2 is the one I was wondering about Saturday when Cole was false starting and getting blown up repeatedly even with Kinlaw out. Armstead and the other guy were just blasting him and I was wondering is Gaillard not playing because of his wife again, or is this because the C sets the protections in our system and they trust Cole to do that better than Gaillard? Because it sure appears to me that gaillard is as good or better than Cole, with more upside since he's stronger.

An aside, a friend is a big Dolphin fan, earlier in the year I questioned the move to start Tua and he said the reports fans were given suggested he was ready but they all had the same concern, how much impact would it have on the offense because Fitzmagic is so good as a veteran at seeing what's there and a rookie might not. He said the Dolphins fan sites are reporting the main reasons they have pulled Tua multiple times now is not throwing guys open, checking down way too often, and the primary one, protections, he's getting sacked 50% more often than Fitz did, despite all the checkdowns, Fitzmagic averages 1.5 more yards per attempt, the primary issue with him has always been INT's and again this year he has 8, Tua has 2, but they went back to Fitzmagic because they want to see more plays downfield and they are concerned Tua doesn't understand protections nearly as well and it will lead to more sacks if he starts looking downfield more.

I have Ekeler in fantasy(finished 2nd) and in their game I watched some they were talking about how Ekeler has had to change his playing style some because of Herbert. He hold the ball longer because he's so confident he can avoid the sack or stand in there and still get the ball off, as a result it impacts the timing on the passes to Ekeler and as a result his YPC number is way down this year, over 10 his first 3 years, at 7.7 this year. They said the primary difference is he has to more aware of staying in to block because herbert holds the ball longer or doesn't always see blitzes the way Rivers did(duh veteran to rookie) so it has impacted the timing.

I do suspect you're right though I think Cole is setting protections or at least more involved in it than other teams might have their C.

It definitely impacted the last game not just the false starts but all those safety blitzes in the empty packages seemed to take Kyler by surprise quite a bit

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well everyone seems to think it's cool to brush off Kyler's performance issues because he's a 23-year old kid. So was Jake when he took us to the playoffs - and then onto a road victory in Dallas. No excuses, Jake just manned the hell up. Scrappy player just like he was at ASU.

Jake had a better team around him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t see anything wrong with calling out the glaring concerns we might have with Murray.
Personally, I refuse to place blame on coaching... I mean, this is the NFL and be it on the Cards staff or elsewhere, Murray has the means to receive all of the most appropriate coaching available to a young QB.

Murray’s insane physical gifts don’t even need to be mentioned any longer. They are that evident and that “next-level.” But as you correctly pointed out, there are loads of failed NFL QB’s who possessed freak physical gifts...

Murray’s troubles are simply too glaring to not point out. His throwing mechanics are amateurish. His inability to make, even moderate level pre and post-snap reads is alarming. His clear unwillingness to remain in the pocket, slide in the pocket, step up in the pocket to make “that read” and “that throw” are even more alarming.
And perhaps most concerning of all is what appears to be mounting evidence of a serious lack of leadership qualities. His remaining on the ground after being “gently” smacked on the last play of the 9er game, and then refusing to give a post game presser, are loud warning sirens.

If I were a betting man, I put the odds of Murray sticking in the NFL at very low levels... I am that concerned by what I’ve seen.
Hope I’m wrong...

I think you greatly undervalue the importance of coaching. Greatly.

And while I agree there are definite questions to kylers game, I think you take many of them to the level of unearned hyperbole.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think you greatly undervalue the importance of coaching. Greatly.

And while I agree there are definite questions to kylers game, I think you take many of them to the level of unearned hyperbole.

Cool... Let's pray the Cards grab that perfect coach who will find the way to take Murray to another level... and should Murray not develop, we can continue to blame Mike B and Keim for not getting Kyler that perfect coach.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kyler’s “running” in terms of being a consistent effective weapon, will last only so long. I would say at most, his running will be an effective weapon for the next 4 years...maybe 5 if he somehow avoids any number of big shots and injuries.
That said, if he doesn’t develop in all of the areas I mentioned above, he won’t last 5 more years in the NFL.

I don’t buy the limitation on running. Vick ran for nearly 600 in his ninth season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Disagree

His deep ball is his most consistent weapon.


Its crazy how people think you can put up 4000 yards in the NFL by not reading defenses?

What is wrong with critical thinking skills??????

Hmm I think you’re way off. His deep balls are more often overthrown or underthrown than directly on target.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don’t buy the limitation on running. Vick ran for nearly 600 in his ninth season.

If Kyler doesn't develop and refine his craft, how he's running 5 or 9 years from now won't matter because he won't be in the NFL at all...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And this was before the Giants and Eagles game.....

And clearly Hop has only a partial effect on it as Kyler is a great at the deep ball in the middle and to the right.

Rosen and what ever qb you wanted is trash. Lets move forward with K1

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I will say this, we haven’t had many QBs that have graced us with such a passer rating map.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Hmm I think you’re way off. His deep balls are more often overthrown or underthrown than directly on target.

Compared to his peers? He looks one of the best deep throwers in the league.

I see a lot of qbs miss with the deepball in todays NFL

 

[football karma]

Well everyone seems to think it's cool to brush off Kyler's performance issues because he's a 23-year old kid. So was Jake when he took us to the playoffs - and then onto a road victory in Dallas. No excuses, Jake just manned the hell up. Scrappy player just like he was at ASU.

that team won in spite of Plummer as much as because of him. 59% comp %. 21 total TDs / 20 ints. took 49 sacks.

 

[ajcardfan]

If Kyler doesn't develop and refine his craft, how he's running 5 or 9 years from now won't matter because he won't be in the NFL at all...

Mike Glennon is still in the NFL. Josh McCown played 40 years or so. Etc, etc etc. He will play a long time if he wants to.


Now, Murray does have the baseball option which none of these milking the tit guys had.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Mike Glennon is still in the NFL. Josh McCown played 40 years or so. Etc, etc etc. He will play a long time if he wants to.


Now, Murray does have the baseball option which none of these milking the tit guys had.

Hence... my comment.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Kyler doesn't develop and refine his craft, how he's running 5 or 9 years from now won't matter because he won't be in the NFL at all...

Naw he’s good enough to remain in the nfl. If he doesn’t refine his craft he’s likely a backup still earning lots of money.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Naw he’s good enough to remain in the nfl. If he doesn’t refine his craft he’s likely a backup still earning lots of money.

I think the odds are far greater that, rather than settle as a back-up, he goes to play baseball...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cool... Let's pray the Cards grab that perfect coach who will find the way to take Murray to another level... and should Murray not develop, we can continue to blame Mike B and Keim for not getting Kyler that perfect coach.

Don’t get me wrong, kyler has a lot of responsibility to improve. He needs to be a film rat and he needs to refine his mechanics. But to completely dismiss the impact of coaching is just being purposefully obtuse for arguments sake. It falls into the same category of hyperbole in terms of making a cogent argument, which is to say, a failure.

masks for the coach, it would be great to get the perfect coach (again hyperbole), but there are many very good coaches which might not be “perfect” that can help advance kylers career. I’m good if they can do that, which is perfectly reasonable.