Is Steve Keim forcing Vance Joseph's hand?

Keim forcing Vance's hand?

  • yes

    Votes: 19 34.5%
  • no

    Votes: 7 12.7%
  • probably reading into this too much

    Votes: 29 52.7%

  • Total voters
    55
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Zeem_Freeze

Zeem_Freeze

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No. The verbiage used, means that Hicks wants a trade.

Honestly though, who cares? Hicks was BAAAAAD last year. Him and Campbell were one of the biggest weak points on the team.
while it could mean that, I dont think it does. The scenario I laid out plays out across the league every offseason. So does the scenario where Hicks asks for a trade. agree to disagree.

and I care because it says a lot about our D coordinator/GM dynamics
 

dreamcastrocks

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If it's not a question, you should be able to offer the names of who starts before Simmons and our #16 pick?

Hicks and one of the two Collins/Simmons may see the field before both of them.

Now, if you can't see that some of us might have apprehensions about a possible lack of playing time for our first round pick LBs, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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QuebecCard

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Hicks and one of the two Collins/Simmons may see the field before both of them.

Now, if you can't see any some of us might have apprehensions about a possible lack of playing time for our first round pick LBs, I don't know what to tell you.

You do know that Hicks is all but gone, right?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think Keim eventually grew frustrated with Vance about Simmons and doesn’t want a repeat. Let the youngsters learn on the job is a chips all in move by Keim
If that’s the case it’s a disastrous relationship. Gm selects players. Coaches decides who plays. Is there conversation? Sure. But if gm forces coach’s hand it’s the wrong coach for that gm.
 

FB94

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Then why state he’s our starter from day one. Either VJ and Keim both agree, or Keim is putting the record straight that another first round pick will not sit.
 

Chris_Sanders

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If that’s the case it’s a disastrous relationship. Gm selects players. Coaches decides who plays. Is there conversation? Sure. But if gm forces coach’s hand it’s the wrong coach for that gm.


Watching the war room when they picked Collins and Simmons, Kliff looked pretty happy with both guys.

Is this Keim calling out Vance or asking Coach Bro to be a head coach
 
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dreamcastrocks

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You do know that Hicks is all but gone, right?

Most likely. However, you wanted a scenario where they don't both start. I gave you one.

It is just as likely that other teams see tape and don't want anything to do with Hicks. It would make sense that we keep him, instead of the 6M cap it.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Watching the war room when they picked Collins and Simmons, Cliff looked pretty happy with both guys.

Is this Keim calling out Vance or asking Coach Bro to be a head coach

How else is he supposed to look though...
 

Chris_Sanders

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How else is he supposed to look though...

They were both excited to get Simmons and Collins. This process is the same as it was with Arians. Keim, Kliff, and Michael all with input.

The chain of command though is Keim to Kliff to Vance.

It's not on Vance that Simmons didn't play. It's on Kliff for being a glorified offensive coordinator rather than a head coach.
 

Krangodnzr

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They were both excited to get Simmons and Collins. This process is the same as it was with Arians. Keim, Kliff, and Michael all with input.

The chain of command though is Keim to Kliff to Vance.

It's not on Vance that Simmons didn't play. It's on Kliff for being a glorified offensive coordinator rather than a head coach.

Simmons was dreadful early in the season. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Campbell played well for the first part of the season. I think the team waited too long to get Simmons in however. That's on Vance. He is the D Coordinator.
 

DVontel

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Simmons was dreadful early in the season. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Campbell played well for the first part of the season. I think the team waited too long to get Simmons in however. That's on Vance. He is the D Coordinator.
I think Simmons was dreadful down the stretch compared to early in the season.
 

football karma

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Then why state he’s our starter from day one.

not coming at you, but i see this statement repeated a lot in the media, etc

did Keim ever say that?

he said Collins was a Mike LB. He said he would play.

i dont recall him saying he was going to start.
 

DVontel

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Then you just have a hate on for him. That's an extremely uninformed opinion.
No, I just don’t have hard on for him like you do. Would it be a extremely uninformed opinion if I said he was great? Don’t know how you could watch the Eagles & Rams games & not think anything less than disappointment.
 

Stout

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No, I just don’t have hard on for him like you do. Would it be a extremely uninformed opinion if I said he was great? Don’t know how you could watch the Eagles & Rams games & not think anything less than disappointment.

Where did I say he was great? I have hopes he will be great--if our idiot DC will play him, and if he lives up to potential. He wasn't perfect down the stretch, but he was far better than early in the season. You're just not going to find any agreement for claiming the opposite.
 
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Zeem_Freeze

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I think Simmons was dreadful down the stretch compared to early in the season.
Yeah bad take. Simmons produced well in the snaps he got.

can’t believe I’m agreeing with Ouchie and Stout on 2 different topics in the same thread. Kiss your girls, the sun might not rise in the East tomorrow morning
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Getting into Walter territory now. Soon someone will be writing a 2000 word article on whats really going on in the FO while sat 1000 miles away.

I think far more likely Vance told Keim that Hicks is a weakness in the offseason and this is Keim saying "here's your solution".
I think our LB core will be much improved in 2021. Hicks & Campbell were veterans but they don't have the speed any longer, still have the instincts though but that will only carry you so far if your foot speed isn't there? Hicks doesn't hit the hole to tackle RB's with the same intensity as he once did plus he tackles too high imo. Campbell was in position in coverage more often than not in 2020 but just couldn't hold it because of the lack of foot speed.
Simmons & Collins are both young & fast. Simmons is a sponge on learning defenses, Dabo & Venables raved about that while talking about him when he was drafted. He struggled a little to start the season & didn't get the snaps. Mainly because we signed Campbell & no OTA's, plus no preseason. I think if he had both of those last year he would've been ready from the start? He played well later in the year & his role was more defined. He has to learn what hits are legal while tackling though. I believe he will. Collins coach at Tulsa basically said the same type of things about him. If you listen to him speak you can tell the dude is rather smart. He wanted to go to medical school & become a doctor. Time will tell with him but he looks solid.
 
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Cardsfaninlouky

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I think Simmons was dreadful down the stretch compared to early in the season.
I feel the total opposite. The only thing he sucked at imo later in the season was the personal foul hits & some of those were questionable. Early in the year he didn't play as much because of having Campbell, no OTA's & preseason. I think he will be a stud LB in 2021.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah bad take. Simmons produced well in the snaps he got.

can’t believe I’m agreeing with Ouchie and Stout on 2 different topics in the same thread. Kiss your girls, the sun might not rise in the East tomorrow morning
You’re going to end up agreeing with the two of us a lot more over time. Particularly during the season when we are right more often than wrong.
 

Solar7

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I feel like this has gotten overcomplicated. As the draft fell to us, Collins was at the top of our board at our pick. We took him, and now we adjust. Veterans get unhappy, and we try to move them because this was an unexpected plan for us as a team and them as a player.

Nothing's wrong with doing right by a guy when we might have gone a different position depending on luck of the draw.

I wish the best for Hicks.
 

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