Is it safe to say players duck the Suns?

[KingofCards]

I think the reason so many teams are without there stars when we play them is they sit out to avoid injury.

 

[The Commish]

I think most teams figure that they will probably lose with or without their star, so if they have an injury they might as well let them sit.

 

[Nash]

I think that is a bit presumptuous of us. We are probably losing our objectivity in concluding that that is the truth.

We should check to see if the 'injured' stars actually played the 2-3 games before and after Suns' games to see if they sat out just our games. Did those stars play through 'injury' against scrubby teams?

I'm not sure..just asking.

edit: woo hoo! I have 2^10 posts!

 

[TucsonDevil]

I don't think individual players duck the Suns. I do believe that D Wade doesn't play when he is less than 100% so he doesn't hurt his stats and image.

 

[Gaddabout]

I think if I were 6-10 plus, 260+ pounds, and had some kind of excuse not to play against the Suns, I would take it. I could make little difference and I'd lose 10 lbs. chasing the Suns around. I'd rather wait for the slow teams to come in and play my pace.

If I'm a guard or forward, I've got this game circled. I know win or lose, I'm going to pad my stats, because everyone's going to get their shots.

 

[Covert Rain]

There is something to this but not out of fear necessarily of the Phoenix Suns. I do agree that some players do in fact DUCK the Suns. It has everything to do with our style.

If you have a bum knee, ankle or back do you really want to play the Phoenix Suns? I think with most teams playing half court sets, you have opportunities to coast a bit and nurse the injury while playing.

You don't have that opportunity with the Suns. So if your one of those players, you would probably rather skip that game to prevent aggravating the injury and wait for a slower tempo game.

 

[KingofCards]

There is something to this but not out of fear necessarily of the Phoenix Suns. I do agree that some players do in fact DUCK the Suns. It has everything to do with our style.

If you have a bum knee, ankle or back do you really want to play the Phoenix Suns? I think with most teams playing half court sets, you have opportunities to coast a bit and nurse the injury while playing.

You don't have that opportunity with the Suns. So if your one of those players, you would probably rather skip that game to prevent aggravating the injury and wait for a slower tempo game.

Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. Not out of fear per se, more to avoid injury with all the running back and forth.

 

[TheFallen49]

Well from an outside perspective... your just really lucky. Why would stars be 'ducking' your team? The Suns aren't that intimidating, as mentioned it probably has a lot to do with the pace they play. I think it also makes me question the validity of your record. Let's be honest, your schedule has been fairly light and the fact you have been playing all these teams without their star players (Wolves without KG and Davis, Rockets with Tmac and Yao, Denver without AI and Camby, Jazz without Boozer... c'mon!!!). I know it's not the Suns fault this occurs but it's getting ridiculous.

At some point though you have to ask the question - are you really as good as your record shows? Does the 1-7 record against the west elite tell you anything? More importantly do you think players will willingly 'duck' your team come playoff time? Just some food for thought.

 

[KingofCards]

Well from an outside perspective... your just really lucky. Why would stars be 'ducking' your team? The Suns aren't that intimidating, as mentioned it probably has a lot to do with the pace they play. I think it also makes me question the validity of your record. Let's be honest, your schedule has been fairly light and the fact you have been playing all these teams without their star players (Wolves without KG and Davis, Rockets with Tmac and Yao, Denver without AI and Camby, Jazz without Boozer... c'mon!!!). I know it's not the Suns fault this occurs but it's getting ridiculous.

At some point though you have to ask the question - are you really as good as your record shows? Does the 1-7 record against the west elite tell you anything? More importantly do you think players will willingly 'duck' your team come playoff time? Just some food for thought.

At some point you also have to conclude that this is more than coincidence.

Players won't sit out in the playoffs, but it is fairly obvious they are sitting out or being held out against us in the regular season.

 

[Chaz]

Why is one record any less valid than another?

It is only the first half of the season and the competition will get tougher for the Suns but then they seem to be improving.

Mid-season pissing matches about quality or suspect wins are just stupid.

I don't think anybody is avoiding the Suns. The only game I can think to back up KOC's point was the Rockets game where McGrady sat that one game with a sore back. He scored 40+ on the Mavs and skipped the B2B against the Suns. I don't doubt his back was hurting though. The rest is just good fortune for the Suns.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns aren't that intimidating, as mentioned it probably has a lot to do with the pace they play.

Huh?? That is exactly why they are intimidating...because the pace they play. What I was saying is a player doesn't look at the Suns overall record and say..."I am going to take today off". Just like no teams really fear the Mavs record. Players play to compete. If anything teams get up for the Suns and Mavs.

I think it also makes me question the validity of your record. Let's be honest

Yes lets. Since when does the regular season record completely dictate the legitimacy of your team to win a title? After all, the Mavs choke job was against a Heat team that had a horrid record against the elite teams last year and still won. So I guess the Mavs record last year was all fools gold. I guess their playoff run was all fools gold. Your putting to much stock in the regular season. The regular season is about tune up and seeding.

Most of the West losses came at the start of the season when Amare wasn't even close to 100%. Funny how that wasn't mentioned. What if you subtract a 20-10 guy from the Mavs or Spurs? What if you lost a starting guard and your other guard was playing hurt for most of the game against Utah?

 

[TheFallen49]

Huh?? That is exactly why they are intimidating...because the pace they play. What I was saying is a player doesn't look at the Suns overall record and say..."I am going to take today off". Just like no teams really fear the Mavs record. Players play to compete. If anything teams get up for the Suns and Mavs.



Yes lets. Since when does the regular season record completely dictate the legitimacy of your team to win a title? After all, the Mavs choke job was against a Heat team that had a horrid record against the elite teams last year and still won. So I guess the Mavs record last year was all fools gold. I guess their playoff run was all fools gold. Your putting to much stock in the regular season. The regular season is about tune up and seeding.

Most of the West losses came at the start of the season when Amare wasn't even close to 100%. Funny how that wasn't mentioned. What if you subtract a 20-10 guy from the Mavs or Spurs? What if you lost a starting guard and your other guard was playing hurt for most of the game against Utah?

I don't think the players find the pace intimidating unless they have a reoccurring problem with injury. It's definitely not a reason to sit games out though, you think your the only team trying to win? To say they will actually sit out games because of the pace is silly, not to mention everyone knows when Phoenix comes to town it's a great chance to stat pad. The theory is as legit (translation: ridiculous) as a theory that the Commish is paying the teams off to make the Suns run a little easier. Both are stupid and both have (sadly) been suggested by Suns and Mavs fans to justify this illogical streak of events. The point i'm making is they will not sit out come playoff time and if you not playing them at full strength now don't you think your vision will be a little askewed.

Second point: from my perspective the Mavericks run was not fools gold based on the simple fact they never played lower than a five seed in the playoffs whereas your Suns played a seventh and sixth seed to get to the Mavericks (and lost). That playoff run tells me nothing about Phoenix, it tells me you can beat decent teams but you didn't beat anyone elite. The Mavericks played a tougher seed in the first round than you did before you got to the finals! The point: The Suns making it to the WCF was fools gold if anything, not the Mavericks run. And the Heat? Don't get me started on this crap, I could complain about a blown call in game 3 that altered the entire series but I won't (although i'm glad the rest of the league is noticing Wade, I could direct you to some interesting articles). You have to understand the difference here, the Heat made it to the finals from a weak Eastern conference, the Suns don't have that advantage they are in a real conference with quality opponents.

Third: I don't want to get into the Amare argument about not being 100%, he looks good right now and your right thats what matters. And you know what? He looked pretty good against the Jazz too but you still lost despite their 20-10 being out (FUNNY... how that wasn't mentioned). Explain. And please don't bring up the fact you dominated the Spurs by 16 points. Impressive? Only if your disregard the fact they were coming off a back to back against a healthy Jazz squad and that the team is full of aging veteran players. The fact of the matter is 1-7 against the elite is bad no matter what the excuse because those are the teams you will be playing when it matters.

 

[elindholm]

Geez, how many more months do we have to put up with this? Bring on the WCF already. I hope both the Suns and Mavericks are fortunate enough to be there.

 

[Ciani]

And please don't bring up the fact you dominated the Spurs by 16 points. Impressive? Only if your disregard the fact they were coming off a back to back against a healthy Jazz squad and that the team is full of aging veteran players.

When the Suns went 3-6 early in the season nobody cared about our schedule - 3 of the losses were on back to back nights (and all three were close, not a double digit loss), one without the MVP - but when we beat the Spurs its only because of their schedule. The Suns can do nothing well I guess.

And Utah beat SA without Boozer as well.

 

[msdundee]

I wonder if the Mavs' conscience bothered them after they squeaked past Minny and the Kings when both those teams were playing the second game of B2Bs -- (both were 1-2 point wins). Those are NOT the teams they'll be playing when it matters.

It's all in your perspective.

 

[elindholm]

I wonder if the Mavs' conscience bothered them

No.

 

[KingofCards]

How did we end up with Dallas fan boys all over the place?

 

[TheFallen49]

How did we end up with Dallas fan boys all over the place?

Because your cluttering our boards. It's only fair, but i'm not trying to start anything other than a debate so hopefully theres no need to be hostile in your comments.

As for the last few comments... they don't even apply to what we are talking about. I love how a debate about your team can transfer into how crappy the Mavericks are simply by a Mavericks fan posting his opinion on your teams recent luck with teams having the injury bug. Nice. I didn't comment on how the Mavs played down to their opposition against the Kings and Grizz (which they do a lot, it is troublesome) or the rough start from Phoenix from back to backs (although I think the remaining schedule is tougher than the start of the season for you guys). Don't take offense, that's just how I see your teams success. It's doesn't matter anyway, you have the W's.

I'm trying to give an outside opinion (albeit from a rival team), you guys would obviously see your teams success in a positive light and i'm pointing out things a Suns fan apparently doesn't want to hear. It's the same way when you look at Dallas (and I like criticism of my team, criticism thats deserved and insightful anyway).

 

[msdundee]

Because your cluttering our boards. It's only fair, but i'm not trying to start anything other than a debate so hopefully theres no need to be hostile in your comments.

As for the last few comments... they don't even apply to what we are talking about. I love how a debate about your team can transfer into how crappy the Mavericks are simply by a Mavericks fan posting his opinion on your teams recent luck with teams having the injury bug. Nice. I didn't comment on how the Mavs played down to their opposition against the Kings and Grizz (which they do a lot, it is troublesome) or the rough start from Phoenix from back to backs (although I think the remaining schedule is tougher than the start of the season for you guys). Don't take offense, that's just how I see your teams success. It's doesn't matter anyway, you have the W's.

I'm trying to give an outside opinion (albeit from a rival team), you guys would obviously see your teams success in a positive light and i'm pointing out things a Suns fan apparently doesn't want to hear. It's the same way when you look at Dallas (and I like criticism of my team, criticism thats deserved and insightful anyway).

I think I got it now: You're a Mavs fan who found time to come to the Suns board to debate about our team's success or lack thereof along with explaining to us the finer points of why our win over the Spurs didn't really mean much. However, while you (a Mavs fan) are here on the Suns board, we are not to transfer the discussion to the Mavs team because that would be off-subject. We're just to take notes on your insightful "outside opinion" and all those things we "don't want to hear" and in that way we will be more informed and able to see things as they really are.

 

[KingofCards]

I think I got it now: You're a Mavs fan who found time to come to the Suns board to debate about our team's success or lack thereof along with explaining to us the finer points of why our win over the Spurs didn't really mean much. However, while you (a Mavs fan) are here on the Suns board, we are not to transfer the discussion to the Mavs team because that would be off-subject. We're just to take notes on your insightful "outside opinion" and all those things we "don't want to hear" and in that way we will be more informed and able to see things as they really are.

We are so lucky to have him around.

 

[msdundee]

We are so lucky to have him around.

I probably should have mentioned that he's too late anyway. Every point he brought up has already been discussed, argued, dissected, analyzed, and debated to hell and back on this board by the regular Suns fans. Nice of him to try to help, though.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think the players find the pace intimidating unless they have a reoccurring problem with injury. It's definitely not a reason to sit games out though, you think your the only team trying to win? To say they will actually sit out games because of the pace is silly, not to mention everyone knows when Phoenix comes to town it's a great chance to stat pad.

What?? What does a reoccurring injury have to do with it. If your hurt and trying to work through an injury, the last thing you want to do is chase another team through 4 quarters.

Second point: from my perspective the Mavericks run was not fools gold.

You see in there lies the problem.

Suns played a seventh and sixth seed to get to the Mavericks (and lost). That playoff run tells me nothing about Phoenix.

Really? Cause it tells me that a team without a major piece in Amare still had the fortitude to get to the WCF. The Clips were no push overs last season and they had a good record against the WC elite.

And the Heat? Don't get me started on this crap, I could complain about a blown call in game 3 that altered the entire series but I won't

You just did. One call does not cost a team a game. It's not like the Mavs and Heat only played one play. There were plenty of opportunities throught the course of the game and series. If the Mavs had taken care of business prior to that, that "call" wouldn't have been a factor. Again, the fact the Heat worked the Mavs proves that the regular season is for tuneup and seeding.

Third: I don't want to get into the Amare argument about not being 100%, he looks good right now and your right thats what matters. And you know what? He looked pretty good against the Jazz too but you still lost despite their 20-10 being out (FUNNY... how that wasn't mentioned).

Oh you mean like Raja not playing? Or does missing your starter not count? What about our most important big man in coming off the bench in Kurt? Funny how that wasn't mentioned either.

And please don't bring up the fact you dominated the Spurs by 16 points. Impressive? Only if your disregard the fact they were coming off a back to back against a healthy Jazz squad and that the team is full of aging veteran players.

Don't bring it up? Which game would you like me to bring up? There have been several where the Suns have made stops at the end of games. So the Suns don't get credit for back to backs but the Spurs do? Typical Mavs fans.

The fact of the matter is 1-7 against the elite is bad no matter what the excuse because those are the teams you will be playing when it matters.

And your superior record against elite teams helped you so much in the finals last year against the Heat.

 

[Chaplin]

Any thought that non-injured players take our games off to avoid playing us is ludicrous, and, quite frankly, stupid and asinine. How any sane NBA fan can even suggest it is unbelievably insane.

 

[green machine]

Any thought that non-injured players take our games off to avoid playing us is ludicrous, and, quite frankly, stupid and asinine. How any sane NBA fan can even suggest it is unbelievably insane.

I agree.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Any thought that non-injured players take our games off to avoid playing us is ludicrous, and, quite frankly, stupid and asinine. How any sane NBA fan can even suggest it is unbelievably insane.

I am sure you can get your point across without using stuff like stupid, asinine, ect...