Interesting Air Raid Insights from TX high school coach

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by kerouac9, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    I agree with you. Do I think KK is dumb or lacks humility? No. Do I think we may be a few years too early on a full Air Raid? Yeah.

    I think he meant that KK didn't come in the door with a defined playbook, and whatever has been created is so new that it's the first time it's ever been printed on paper.
     
  2. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    Well, problem solved then I guess.
     
  3. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Wait, has it been reported somewhere that there’s literally no written playbook for the cardinals?!? Did I miss that?
     
  4. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Rather be early than late.

    The jury is definitely out on Kingsbury until we see anything - likely year two before we have any idea.
     
  5. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    He had a video playbook in college (which is written down in a digital form) and people are acting like its just playground football.
     
  6. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    When Kingsbury arrived, he didn't bring a written playbook with him. (This has been reported) His offense at Texas Tech used a "video playbook" that taught the concepts of how you run routes against different kinds of coverage.

    When Kingsbury arrived here, he recorded those concepts into a written playbook.

    The problem (for me) isn't that the playbook wasn't written down. The problem is that it's unheard of for an NFL offense to be so simple that it doesn't need to be written down. It's possible that's because all NFL offensive coordinators are guys who like complexity for its own sake and lets it reflect their innate genius.

    I think that NFL offenses are likely a little more complex than they need to be, but because NFL coaches and players have more time (not only seasons of practice but years in their careers), complexity gets added to keep players interested (this happens especially at QB) and as defenses see the basics.
     
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  7. wit3card

    wit3card Registered

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    kerouac9 do you really think that a paper can show more "looks" than a video playbook. From my perspective, as I had to do some "how to" video is 10 time easier to show every nuance than write it down. It is very difficult to achieve the full spectrum of nuances just by writing it down. A picture and more so a video is often easier and much more recognizable if you see it "live" and even if it is as easy to understand as the video, if people encounter it "live" they sometimes need some tries to recognize it and adapt it, and exactly that is "lost" time.

    Really just my expierience on an other field than Football but, I could imagine it works for football as well. And by the comments of Fitz, recognizing the play and react properly is the key to Kingsburrys offense and if that is so, than it will if not really to easy, always challenge other defenses. And not every D has 2 Top Corner and so on.


    And for me the Rams didn't loose because of Bellichek destroying McVay, but much more Bellicheck showing up and destroying Goff. Bellichek uses himself many concepts of the Air-Raid maybe that helped him to see the real problems that Goff has overall. But till the SB no one could stop the concepts of the Air-Raid used in the NFL language, so I'm not sold on it that the D solved that problem yet and since these isn't the old days were D are allowed to use physicality and NFL probably wanting more high octane offenses ... I think D will not stop it that easily without a real sound D and a real good one so maybe 1-3 teams can stop it and the rest of the league has to adapt on a high scoring game or fail miserably. But still this is my perception of the whole thing.
     
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  8. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    I think that pro teams watch film and so they have BOTH. There are two drawbacks that video presents that you don't get from written materials:

    1) Written materials can provide multiple dimensions at once. Here's the Browns' 2000 offensive playbook. Here's a page from the playbook (page 252 of 554(!!!)):
    upload_2019-7-16_14-27-54.png

    That's 10 variations of the same play (Ride 136/137). If you're a different position (RT vs LG, for example), you're being shown what your responsibilities are. There's a greater density of information here than you would get from a video, which can only show one instance of a defense, for example. Each play is 7-12 seconds long. So in what it takes me to scan for my position on 10 plays, I'd have to watch over a minute of video.

    2. Written materials are (generally) random access, while video materials are (generally) read-only. I opened this playbook and flipped to page 15 then 29 then 125 then 252 to find what I wanted. If this were a video, I'd be able to skip over to 2:23 or whatever, but I don't have a context for where I'm headed.

    Yes, if I'm learning how to re-set the oil light on my Honda CR-V, I'm going to run to video. But, if I want a handbook to study and be information-dense as well as searchable, I need text.

    As I said, listen to the podcast to hear from someone who has been seeing spread/air raid concepts for some time and has been watching defensive coordinators try to adjust and defend it. I happen to believe that Goff is an extension of McVay.
     
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  9. wit3card

    wit3card Registered

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    I see the merrit of a written down playbook.

    We know that old style offenses needed 300- 700 pages to get out 60-70 plays out on sunday ~ 1200 plays a season were at least 2-5 were done on every game day.

    Basically the Browns had drawn up 5540 plays to use 10% to 20% of it in the whole season. That is very unefficent if you ask me.

    So from my point of view the new system is more about modern Variaton management and not like the old style.

    Let me try to condense that.

    in the old way of thinking you had 1 play and 10-20 variations of it, that most of the time had many people do differnt things, so basically you had variations but a bulk load to learn on each one to know the difference etc. pp.

    in the new area, from what I got out of what crumbled through the whole thing, we have 1 play that is managed like state of are variation managment system. So you have a basic play that doesn't change in the basics but in the development, so the play has always the same blocking scheme and doesn't change that but it develops into a certain pattern and on this pattern different decsions by 1-2 person change the outcome of the play. On some this are made by the QB on others, by the RB or TE or WR depends on what the D does and what they then should do.

    Obviously this emphasis more about the playcall and the QB reading the Defense prior the snap, so in the NFL the QB has to understand what the D wants to do, needs to read them and anticipate them and change the plays on the fly if needed. And here for me Goff struggles, since in my point of view he doesn't understand or can't read the D on the field, maybe on the sideline or in the film room, but he can't digest or read it in game.


    And if that is the case a video tells you exactly what your developing pattern is, and shows you who makes the decision and the 1-2 decision maker has 2-3 possible decisions so 1 play has still 6 variations but only 3 guys max have to learn the different types of outcomes, because the others do what they have to.
     
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  10. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    That's a recipe for disaster in the NFL.
     
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  11. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    The only reason I can see his playbook being put to a video format might be the different fluid concepts inherit in one play which does not exactly mean the play itself is simple but the foundation. Meaning it might be easier to digest a play looking at a interactive design than a series of flow charts while also possibly even showing the progression of a play in response to a defense since it appears one play can morph to the defense... I guess lol
     
  12. Cardsfaninlouky

    Cardsfaninlouky Registered

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    I'm with you on that. Tom Clements called the plays to win that SB ring Aaron Rodgers has. He knows what works & will let KK know what plays from the air raid offense to use. KK will adapt, he's all about scheming week to week. Now he has a DC that will attack & keep the team in games, for once in his coaching life, he will not have to worry about the other side of the ball. Just worry about the offense being efficient. I'm excited about the potential of this team.
     
  13. THESMEL

    THESMEL Registered

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    Don’t matter unless we can establish a bread and butter run game - where they know it’s coming and can’t stop it because we’re are just that good at it - you know like billy Jack - I’m going to take my left foot and kick you on the right side of your face - and their ain’t a damn thing you can do about it.
     
  14. Cardsfaninlouky

    Cardsfaninlouky Registered

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    That's been a misconception of the air raid offense for yrs. It was said in the 90's when Hal Mumme coached Tim Couch at Kentucky that there was no playbook, that Mumme played sandlot football. Basically go find an open patch of grass & wait for the pass. This so isn't true. Mumme laughed at all the people that said those things. The playbook isn't thick, for his original version of the offense that is. He said there's about 20-30 plays with each play having different formations & motions out of that particular play. Basically disguising the play that looks the same in formation but is a totally different play. SEC defenses had trouble with it, they knew James Whalen (he was a TE) was going to get the ball & they still couldn't stop him because of the way Mumme disguised certain plays. The problem with the air raid when he used it at Kentucky wasn't the effectiveness of it, the problem was Mumme never had a defense & never worried about that side of the ball. He always thought he could out score the other team. This offense as does any offense requires a decent to good defense, it is a scoring offense. We have a good DC now with talent on that side of the ball so I think we will surprise some teams. When Tim Couch was drafted by the Browns #1 overall in 99, all the natl media talked about the Kentucky air raid playbook compared to an NFL playbook. Yes it was alot thicker back then & probably still is, but the offense being run in the NFL today is more like the air raid than ever before. We shall see soon how this all plays out.
     
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  15. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    This is quite possibly my favorite post on ASFN, ever. Really well done.
     
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