Igor's "System"

[sunsfan88]

]
We do go to Ayton for the 5 minutes per game he is interested and engaged. That is my take. If Ayton wants more touches, Ayton can solve that himself. To say that anyone is holding him back, but himself, is silly. If he wants to be dominant, he will be dominant. I think he is at his comfort/interest level for this point in his career. For whatever reason. Watch a game, watch just Ayton, and it becomes apparent.

Well said. Ayton's issues go far beyond the coaching staff.

Using the Kings game as an example, Joerger does not run many if any at all plays for Bagley and yet he was very effective because of his energy and assertiveness.

Kenneth Faried is like the 4th or 5th option for the Rockets yet he's still finding ways to contribute and make an impact both on the game and his stats.

I believe (hope) Ayton will get better at this as he gains more experience. Staying engaged is just something that he struggles with now.

Kokoskov has some faults but to blame Ayton's issues on him is just not fair imo.

 

[Finito]

Oh stop that was by far Bagleys best game of the season.

The game before against Atlanta he had 3 points. Lol. He gets his points in transition for the most part and he’s good st that.

Anyone know what they have done head to head since summer league? Just asking

 

[BC867]

i like Kevin Ray more than Tom "elevate & detonate" Leander
and i suspect it is the opposite -- he fills space because Annie isn't colorful enough in her color commentary

Except KRay does the same thing to Eddie Johnson. 3-4 words at a time, then a pause, on an on. Until he is interrupted by EJ or Annie (thankfully) or just leaves it hanging. You can hear the difference when he reads a promo. On his own, he never knows where his sentences are going. I find myself screaming at the screen, "FINISH THE DAMN SENTENCE."

Have you listened to him say, "Talking Stick Resort Arena"? It comes out, "Talking Stick Resor Tarena". Weird speech patterns over and over. Not just a catch phrase here and there.

Tom Leander was initially trying to pay tribute by emulating Al McCoy with new catch phrases. Since then, in Mercury games or covering for Kevin Ray, he's moved on.

Leander calls a much smoother game than KRay, whose only reference to what is happening on the court is after the play is over. Sometimes.

Kevin Ray should have gone to Georgia Tech. Because he sure is a "rambling wreck". Next time you watch a Suns game, see what you think.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i did notice his pauses, particularly last game, and was kind of entertained by finishing his thoughts and seeing if we agreed

but i may be biased
i liked completing William Shatner's Capt. Kirk dialogue too

 

[slinslin]

Replying to these threads is no different than replying in P&R - people are going to love and hate as they love and hate. No one is changing any minds and the subjective is foisted as fact time and again. With that said....

We do go to Ayton for the 5 minutes per game he is interested and engaged. That is my take. If Ayton wants more touches, Ayton can solve that himself. To say that anyone is holding him back, but himself, is silly. If he wants to be dominant, he will be dominant. I think he is at his comfort/interest level for this point in his career. For whatever reason. Watch a game, watch just Ayton, and it becomes apparent.

Ayton cant solve that by himself.

Sure he can get better at making it absolutely obvious when to pass to him but that is a hard thing to do if you expect him to do all the work here to get wide open. Not to mention Ayton is required in Igor's offense to set screens at the 3pt line all the time. Hard to get post position when you constantly have to be at the 3pt line to screen for your perimeter players.

The Suns need to run plays for Ayton, currently they do not.

The Suns need a PG that can break down a defense and make the inside pass or the kick-out pass.

Currently we have none of that. The only one who can break down the defense is Josh Jackson but he is super erratic with his finishing but at least the only one showing promise in making the inside passes to Ayton.
We also have very little movement off the ball.

An example from the Kings game late in the 4th quarter Booker drove to the left of the rim and got his layup blocked. Ayton was open and calling for the lob which would have been an easy slam but Booker did not make that pass, an easy pass that Booker should have seen.

 

[95pro]

Ayton cant solve that by himself.

Sure he can get better at making it absolutely obvious when to pass to him but that is a hard thing to do if you expect him to do all the work here to get wide open. Not to mention Ayton is required in Igor's offense to set screens at the 3pt line all the time. Hard to get post position when you constantly have to be at the 3pt line to screen for your perimeter players.

The Suns need to run plays for Ayton, currently they do not.

The Suns need a PG that can break down a defense and make the inside pass or the kick-out pass.

Currently we have none of that. The only one who can break down the defense is Josh Jackson but he is super erratic with his finishing but at least the only one showing promise in making the inside passes to Ayton.
We also have very little movement off the ball.

An example from the Kings game late in the 4th quarter Booker drove to the left of the rim and got his layup blocked. Ayton was open and calling for the lob which would have been an easy slam but Booker did not make that pass, an easy pass that Booker should have seen.

I've may have said that we don't have that guy, aside from JJ, that can break down and penetrate almost at will. Booker is most times not that guy, and he's also not that guy to make the right pass or a good pass at all.

 

[1tinsoldier]

this 14 month old article was linked in a news item today
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/12/0...-booker-aims-to-become-worthy-of-star-status/

“Having a heavy load on offense, I just tried to rest a little bit,” Booker said. “But you realize, if you want to be that player in this league, you have to play both sides of the ball.”

and Igor gave him even more ball handling duties this season? even after his 4th stress injury?

and now Ayton believes he plays good defense? clearly the coach isn't communicating

 

[Yuma]

this 14 month old article was linked in a news item today
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/12/0...-booker-aims-to-become-worthy-of-star-status/


and Igor gave him even more ball handling duties this season? even after his 4th stress injury?

and now Ayton believes he plays good defense? clearly the coach isn't communicating

The Ayton thing is open for debate. As fans we want a defensive shot blocker and intimidator in the paint. Ayton switches onto guards, runs out to guard the three point line, etc. If the coaching staff is telling him to play defense this way, then yes he is playing good defense. He is playing defense exactly how he played in college. I am old school. I feel he should switch only to cover the guy if he's going to the basket. Otherwise, I believe he should be one on one with the opposing Center, unless that center wants to stand out at the three point line. I want my big by the hoop getting rebounds and altering shots. Evidently, from day one, Ayton is allowed to roam out to the three point line, leaving us open for lobs, or offensive rebound put backs by opposing bigs. There's a reason opposing centers feast against the Suns. I believe it is the way we utilize Ayton.

 

[1tinsoldier]

...If the coaching staff is telling him to play defense this way, then yes he is playing good defense...

i agree. the only logical reason for him saying he plays good defense is because he's playing the way he's being told to play (albeit he's being told to do these things "harder")

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Ayton thing is open for debate. As fans we want a defensive shot blocker and intimidator in the paint. Ayton switches onto guards, runs out to guard the three point line, etc. If the coaching staff is telling him to play defense this way, then yes he is playing good defense. He is playing defense exactly how he played in college. I am old school. I feel he should switch only to cover the guy if he's going to the basket. Otherwise, I believe he should be one on one with the opposing Center, unless that center wants to stand out at the three point line. I want my big by the hoop getting rebounds and altering shots. Evidently, from day one, Ayton is allowed to roam out to the three point line, leaving us open for lobs, or offensive rebound put backs by opposing bigs. There's a reason opposing centers feast against the Suns. I believe it is the way we utilize Ayton.

I really don't think they're using this kid right on offense or defense.

 

[1Sun]

I really don't think they're using this kid right on offense or defense.

I'm pretty sure they aren't. Then again, I'm also pretty sure that Igor Kokoskov is trying to force European style basketball onto an NBA team, which will never work.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Ayton thing is open for debate. As fans we want a defensive shot blocker and intimidator in the paint. Ayton switches onto guards, runs out to guard the three point line, etc. If the coaching staff is telling him to play defense this way, then yes he is playing good defense. He is playing defense exactly how he played in college. I am old school. I feel he should switch only to cover the guy if he's going to the basket. Otherwise, I believe he should be one on one with the opposing Center, unless that center wants to stand out at the three point line. I want my big by the hoop getting rebounds and altering shots. Evidently, from day one, Ayton is allowed to roam out to the three point line, leaving us open for lobs, or offensive rebound put backs by opposing bigs. There's a reason opposing centers feast against the Suns. I believe it is the way we utilize Ayton.

Ayton knows offense. He will learn defense in time.

 

[Chaplin]

I really don't think they're using this kid right on offense or defense.

Absolutely.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I really don't think they're using this kid right on offense or defense.

They're not at all, Ayton is the kind of guy you build an offense around Booker isn't. They need to run the offense through him even if he can't get a shot he's a terrific passer and will find the open player like Booker for a 3. And on defense he should NEVER be out at the three line or farther he's a rebounder not a lockdown defender

 

[Yuma]

They're not at all, Ayton is the kind of guy you build an offense around Booker isn't. They need to run the offense through him even if he can't get a shot he's a terrific passer and will find the open player like Booker for a 3. And on defense he should NEVER be out at the three line or farther he's a rebounder not a lockdown defender

At the beginning of the year Igor wanted Ayton to be the QB of the offense. Seemingly I thought that meantg we would pass into him on every play. That rarely happens. Whether this is by intention to have Booker initiate the offense, or that we seemingly cannot get the ball into Ayton reliably. Whether it is Ayton not fighting to receive the ball, or players not knowing how to set up and play the angles like EJ is always saying. It seems we are doing the opposite of how Igor detailed we would be using Ayton.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They're not at all, Ayton is the kind of guy you build an offense around Booker isn't. They need to run the offense through him even if he can't get a shot he's a terrific passer and will find the open player like Booker for a 3. And on defense he should NEVER be out at the three line or farther he's a rebounder not a lockdown defender

I don't know if he should NEVER be out at the 3 point line, but agreed overall.

He's the only guy who can consistently draw double teams. An inside out game with him should be something we're focusing on throughout the season instead of that JV high school weave at the three point line. This entire season is supposed to be about development, right? I know people will say "Going into Ayton doesn't work!" Well, in a development season, you drill and run that ish until it does.

 

[1Sun]

I don't know if he should NEVER be out at the 3 point line, but agreed overall.

He's the only guy who can consistently draw double teams. An inside out game with him should be something we're focusing on throughout the season instead of that European weave at the three point line. This entire season is supposed to be about development, right? I know people will say "Going into Ayton doesn't work!" Well, in a development season, you drill and run that ish until it does...unless you have a European coach who refuses to let his NBA team play American basketball.

FIFY.

 

[95pro]

I don't know if he should NEVER be out at the 3 point line, but agreed overall.

He's the only guy who can consistently draw double teams. An inside out game with him should be something we're focusing on throughout the season instead of that JV high school weave at the three point line. This entire season is supposed to be about development, right? I know people will say "Going into Ayton doesn't work!" Well, in a development season, you drill and run that ish until it does.

I mean look at what he did against the Warriors who have Cousins on some guys with length. He took it to them in the 1st quarter, with a banger like cousins and defensive minded guy like Green.

 

[1tinsoldier]

some say it's Ayton's own fault if he doesn't do this or that, or try harder to do this or that.
true. to an extent.
he's only played a few months in college and a few months in the NBA
he has to be taught

besides lack of confidence, part of his lack of aggression -- his hesitation, is his lack of clarity on his role, conflicting instructions and bad communication

first steps
1. clearly tell him his defense currently sucks
2. clearly show him why on tape
3. encourage him by telling him he has all the tools to excel
4. don't just tell him to "play hard" and "don't foul". show him how to accomplish both?

it's OK if the head coach is not a good big-man coach,
but then it's his responsibility to have one on staff.
some of the best centers in NBA history are willing to tutor Ayton.
pressure Sarver to pay one to get started and cut an assistant that isn't cutting it

whatever you've been doing, isn't working.
ADJUST

 

[1tinsoldier]

...for example, what other coach in the league would yell "one shot" to their ball handler with 32 seconds to go in the half, resulting in the Kings getting the ball back and a 3-point play to go 19 at half?...

and, to prove it was no accident, a couple of days later he lets his team run the clock with 34 seconds to go in the half

and starts the new guy again after two dismal performances
24% shooting, 2 assists, 2 turnovers
and he has a 3rd poor performance

Clips prepared their Booker strategy, Suns had no strategy, and no counter, as usual,
and another blowout -- 15 losses in a row

lack of talent? i'd take the Suns roster over the Clippers

 

[slinslin]

Worst coach in Suns history

 

[BC867]

Worst coach in Suns history

Yup, even Jerry, with no experience was 59-60 in his two combined stints as his own Interim Coach (1970 and 1972-73).

 

[1tinsoldier]

i see the Suns shot 30 3's against Clips
is it true he set a goal of 30 per game?
aren't the Suns the worst 3pt shooting team in the league?

 

[BC867]

JERRY COLANGELO'S CONTRACT WITH PHILADELPHIA HAS EXPIRED

Jerry's contract as Advisor with the Sixers expired at the end of 2018.

Wouldn't it be something if Sarver could put his ego aside and bring Jerry in to run basketball operations through the end of next season?

As long as Jerry wouldn't bring back Bryan to be GM.

Wouldn't it be something if Adam Silver were to exert pressure on Sarver behind the scenes?

Wouldn't it be something if I were to win the Lottery (considering that I don't play the Lottery)?

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/07/3...ry-colangelos-contract-expire-at-end-of-year/

 

[Phrazbit]

JERRY COLANGELO'S CONTRACT WITH PHILADELPHIA HAS EXPIRED

Jerry's contract as Advisor with the Sixers expired at the end of 2018.

Wouldn't it be something if Sarver could put his ego aside and bring Jerry in to run basketball operations through the end of next season?

As long as Jerry wouldn't bring back Bryan to be GM.

Wouldn't it be something if Adam Silver were to exert pressure on Sarver behind the scenes?

Wouldn't it be something if I were to win the Lottery (considering that I don't play the Lottery)?

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/07/3...ry-colangelos-contract-expire-at-end-of-year/

Personally, I'd love it, I think Jerry is one of the greatest owners and front office men in league history. And I think the Suns are rapidly closing in on the level of putrocity (is that a word? It should be) where the league tells Sarver he needs to figure out his **** or they will figure it out for him.

However...

It would probably be anyone BUT JC that Sarver would agree to bring in, because bringing in JC to fix his mess would be far more humiliating than simply selling the franchise and fading away.

Also...

Good lord, you know things have gone to pot when BC867, a long time JC detractor, is pining for his return.

Yikes.