If this is the roster where do we stand?

Mainstreet

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I don't know but I just finished a package of peanut M&M's.

They were good, too good. Next time I need to buy a smaller package.
 

Covert Rain

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I didnt forget it. Having home court now does not mean what it did in the 90’s. I just dont think its that important.
I still think it is. For example, you wouldn't have wanted to run into GS in the first round or it would have been a guaranteed one and done. Sometimes the playoffs are game of attrition and who is healthiest by the time the finals roll around. It might not be the be all end all factor but you still want an easier road verses hard.
 

Hoop Head

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I don't know what Eminem has to do with it but I think that's a very questionable conclusion you've drawn. No player on our team averaged 35 minutes or more and only Bridges (82), Javale (74) and Shamet (69) played more than 68 games last season.

I don't know what happened but the entire team looked lost out there, I don't think that was from being overworked. Undercoached, maybe. Over-confident possibly. Outworked, definitely. But overworked, I just don't see it.

I agree with the idea the team was NOT overworked. I've long disputed that Paul was hampered by playing too much during the regular season since he missed 17 of the final 24 games.

I'm not sure why that narrative persists, that the team was overworked, used up, or worn out. Looking at the numbers, it doesn't hold much weight.

The only time I think they were used too much or overworked was in the Pelicans series but that falls on the players. They shouldn't have played so uninspired vs an 8th seed. That might have helped them carry more energy over into the Dallas series but as I said, that's on the players themselves, IMO. They bought into their own hype as being the best team in the league despite not actually proving that when it came time to do so in the postseason.
 

Covert Rain

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My hope is that Monty et Al Learned that lesson and won’t be so focused on winning games at any cost iand overextending playing time for the veterans

If you look at minigame threads that concern was raised by Eminem posters that it would backfire playoff time and it did
It's not about the total minutes as much as the substitution patterns IMO. The total minutes doesn't seem to back that up but is deceiving IMO. A player can be overworked if for example you don't take him out for entire quarters. I don't care how conditioned an athlete you are but there is a reason most coaches don't play their players for entire quarters. It takes its toll for the rest of the game. My wife and I went to more than a handful of games this season. She isn't even a diehard sports person but noticed and asked why Monty sometimes plays guys for such long stretches. She even pointed out multiple times guys played almost the entire 1st, took a TV time out rest and then went back in. Monty would then try and make up for it later in the game only to go hard again in the 4th.

I told her its trust and rotation problems. Monty doesn't trust his bench at times and because guys like Payne were a disaster, he was trying to alternate someone who could score being in there. There were multiple times we noticed guys were gassed and bent over with their hands on their knees before Monty pulled them out. You don't get to see on TV but we watched it happen on multiple occasions during timeouts during multiple games.
 
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Mainstreet

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It's not about the total minutes as much as the substitution patterns IMO. The total minutes doesn't seem to back that up but is deceiving IMO. A player can be overworked if for example you don't take him out for entire quarters. I don't care how conditioned an athlete you are but there is a reason most coaches don't play their players for entire quarters. It takes its toll for the rest of the game. My wife and I went to more than a handful of games this season. She isn't even a diehard sports person but noticed and asked why Monty sometimes plays guys for such long stretches. She even pointed out multiple times guys played almost the entire 1st, took a TV time out rest and then went back in. Monty would then try and make up for it later in the game only to go hard again in the 4th.

I told her its trust and rotation problems. Monty doesn't trust his bench at times and because guys like Payne were a disaster, he was trying to alternate someone who could score being in there. There were multiple times we noticed guys were gassed and bent over with their hands on their knees before Monty pulled them out. You don't get to see on TV but we watched it happen on multiple occasions during timeouts during multiple games.

Teams in the playoffs frequently reduce their rotation to 7-8 players.

I've never fully agreed with it if a team has a deep and talented bench. Monty is not the only coach who does it.
 

Covert Rain

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Teams in the playoffs frequently reduce their rotation to 7-8 players.

I've never fully agreed with it if a team has a deep and talented bench. Monty is not the only coach who does it.
Again, talking mostly about patterns not necessarily minutes. Yes, they do it in the playoffs which impacts the rotations, but Monty seems to go further even in the regular season.
 

Mainstreet

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Again, talking mostly about patterns not necessarily minutes. Yes, they do it in the playoffs which impacts the rotations, but Monty seems to go further even in the regular season.

I've never seen the need to change the player rotation from the regular season to the playoffs if a team has a deep bench.

It perplexes me at times, especially the way Monty stuck with Cam Payne even though he was not playing well. I understand giving a player confidence and trust but not at the possible cost of losing.
 

Covert Rain

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I've never seen the need to change the player rotation from the regular season to the playoffs if a team has a deep bench.

It perplexes me at times, especially the way Monty stuck with Cam Payne even though he was not playing well. I understand giving a player confidence and trust but not at the possible cost of losing.
Not only shortening the bench but not playing guys like Holiday which looked good in almost every single limited action situation he was in.
 

Mainstreet

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Not only shortening the bench but not playing guys like Holiday which looked good in almost every single limited action situation he was in.

I know Monty knows a lot more about basketball than I ever will but I don't understand why he didn't give Holiday more minutes.
 

Covert Rain

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I know Monty knows a lot more about basketball than I ever will but I don't understand why he didn't give Holiday more minutes.
I am with you. I could understand if the guy came in and looked horrible. However, time and time again, it seemed like we were all praising how he looked in limited minutes.
 
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angelofthesouth

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Ish Wainwright...I regret that he is only guard-sized. Between that and the new guards and coach not wanting to use the deep bench, Wainwright might never see court time. Unless coach tries to use Wainwright's wide and burly body as a backup forward--my idea. He'd be even smaller than Jae Crowder, but perhaps his body would be ideal for muscling people aside in the paint.
 

cheesebeef

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Ish Wainwright...I regret that he is only guard-sized. Between that and the new guards and coach not wanting to use the deep bench, Wainwright might never see court time. Unless coach tries to use Wainwright's wide and burly body as a backup forward--my idea. He'd be even smaller than Jae Crowder, but perhaps his body would be ideal for muscling people aside in the paint.
Lol… your idea? Backup forward is exactly how Ish has been used.
 

Chaplin

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Ish Wainwright...I regret that he is only guard-sized. Between that and the new guards and coach not wanting to use the deep bench, Wainwright might never see court time. Unless coach tries to use Wainwright's wide and burly body as a backup forward--my idea. He'd be even smaller than Jae Crowder, but perhaps his body would be ideal for muscling people aside in the paint.
What do you mean? Are you saying you think Monty has used Ish as a guard? That hasn't been the case at all.
 

Proximo

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Teams in the playoffs frequently reduce their rotation to 7-8 players.

I've never fully agreed with it if a team has a deep and talented bench. Monty is not the only coach who does it.
At the end of the year the bench was unplayable. None of them produced anything. Why did that happen, I have no idea - but every single bench player other than oddly Wainright was flat out awful.

I don't blame Monty at all for not giving them minutes.
 

Proximo

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Ish Wainwright...I regret that he is only guard-sized. Between that and the new guards and coach not wanting to use the deep bench, Wainwright might never see court time. Unless coach tries to use Wainwright's wide and burly body as a backup forward--my idea. He'd be even smaller than Jae Crowder, but perhaps his body would be ideal for muscling people aside in the paint.
I really think he can very closely match Crowder's production. He may not be quite as good defensively but I think that will come with more experience.
 

angelofthesouth

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Ish is listed at 6’6”, 250 lbs.

Jae is listed at 6’6”, 234 lbs.
My mistake, I thought Crowder was 6'8". But undersized is undersized.

Well, i hope coach doesn't think Wainwright is only A guard, because shooting guard is now stacked with bodies (if those of not very successful players). No way would Wainwright play.
 
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Hoop Head

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My mistake, I thought Crowder was 6'8". But undersized is undersized.

Well, i desperately hope coach doesn't think Wainwright is only A guard, because shooting guard is now stacked with bodies (if those of not very successful players). No way would Wainwright play.

Wainwright is NOT a guard and has never been used as one by the Suns. He's only played PF that I'm aware of. Although he might have been used at Center when we had our injuries that required Stix to start.
 

Mainstreet

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I really think he can very closely match Crowder's production. He may not be quite as good defensively but I think that will come with more experience.

The Suns had Ish shooting corner 3-pointers in summer league. I guess that's what the Suns want from a power forward because this is what they had Stix doing in Las Vegas as well. Although I like Wainright, I'm not sure he can defend and rebound inside with the big boys.
 

cheesebeef

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My mistake, I thought Crowder was 6'8". But undersized is undersized.

Well, i desperately hope coach doesn't think Wainwright is only A guard, because shooting guard is now stacked with bodies (if those of not very successful players). No way would Wainwright play.
Dude… WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Monty has NEVER played Ish as a guard.

You’re embarrassing yourself with these posts.
 

Germz249

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Dude… WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Monty has NEVER played Ish as a guard.

You’re embarrassing yourself with these posts.
Calm down bro.. there is no need to go at him like that without knowing his reason.. He could be from another multiverse where Ish is a SG that is shorter and lighter than Crowder. So in his world it might all be true. It seems like a long stretch but possible.
 

Mainstreet

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Calm down bro.. there is no need to go at him like that without knowing his reason.. He could be from another multiverse where Ish is a SG that is shorter and lighter than Crowder. So in his world it might all be true. It seems like a long stretch but possible.

If one didn't know anything about the player and only watched summer league, I could see where someone could get this impression.

Here is this 6'5" or 6' 6" guy (depending upon the source) shooting all these corner 3-pointers.
 
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