How to stop the Suns

JCSunsfan

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The idea that is being proposed is that you double Book and Durant and make the other guys score. People are saying that CP3 is going to have to be able to score, so is Okogie etc.

I just don't think I agree. First, you cannot double BOTH Durant and Book. That is nearly an impossible way to defend. It leaves one player to cover the other three on the floor. The second problem is that both Durant and Book do not have that great of difficulty scoring on double teams--they both do it regularly.

Seems to me the only solution is to try to outscore the Suns. Make them work so hard on D that they are gassed on offense. Run a switching defense and hope they miss. That''s about it.

I do think the most effective defensive strategy will be to dog CP3 full-court. Try to make CP3 turn the ball over, or at least rob them of clock time.

Curious about your thoughts.
 

Dr. Jones

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The ball handler will be doubled for sure. At the speed we do our handoffs the switching will be nuts on defense and bound to cause mistakes. I think we need to expect Chris and whomever is the 2nd to hit open threes because they will get a ton of them.

I think we could truly unlock if we play Durant at the 5 sometimes. Especially against the Nuggets when Jokic is on the floor. We need two of Shamet, Payne, Ross, Ish, TJ, Craig, or Josh to be "on" every night IMO. And we need to find those two faster than we did in Dallas.
 

Covert Rain

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The idea that is being proposed is that you double Book and Durant and make the other guys score. People are saying that CP3 is going to have to be able to score, so is Okogie etc.

I just don't think I agree. First, you cannot double BOTH Durant and Book. That is nearly an impossible way to defend. It leaves one player to cover the other three on the floor. The second problem is that both Durant and Book do not have that great of difficulty scoring on double teams--they both do it regularly.

Seems to me the only solution is to try to outscore the Suns. Make them work so hard on D that they are gassed on offense. Run a switching defense and hope they miss. That''s about it.

I do think the most effective defensive strategy will be to dog CP3 full-court. Try to make CP3 turn the ball over, or at least rob them of clock time.

Curious about your thoughts.
What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.
Right. I’d like to see more dumps into aytin when those double teams come.
 

Chris_Sanders

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What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.

CP3 is hitting 58% of his catch and shoot 3s.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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CP3 is hitting 58% of his catch and shoot 3s.
50%, but still they will get torched if they just let him have them. Same with giving pretty much anyone of our wings wide open threes from the corners. You just can't leave NBA players wide open in the corner.
 

Chris_Sanders

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50%, but still they will get torched if they just let him have them. Same with giving pretty much anyone of our wings wide open threes from the corners. You just can't leave NBA players wide open in the corner.

They said 58% on 98.7 two days ago. It's apparently a career high.

Usage he is down to 13% so he really is just being a shooter / passer right now.
 

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I think different teams will try different things and it'll open things up for others - like Ayton - hopefully at some point. lol I love the big guy but not only does the environment have to be right, his mentals have to be also. If KD and Book are doing their thing, and if we're raining threes - defenses will be forced to concentrate less on the paint. If (and that's a 7' if) Ayton can rise to the occasion and be our inside man I can him having some 20/20 games

I thought our new line up would benefit Ayton more but all it's really done so far is erase DeAndre's midrange game - because those are occupied areas now. Even CP3 is rarely getting to his midrange spot. KD and Book have taken that whole area over, which is fine because they're both shooting 55% or better and they need to the space to create

Long story short - stopping the Suns is going to be very hard to do once we figure a few important things out
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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They said 58% on 98.7 two days ago. It's apparently a career high.

Usage he is down to 13% so he really is just being a shooter / passer right now.
Not sure what they are seeing, but it's here on the NBA website.

 

Covert Rain

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Hopefully, Chris snaps out of his funk. We need him too. Since KD joined?

3 Pointers - 5/17 (29%)
2 Pointers - 9/25 (36%)

That's just aweful. Definitely feels like both CP3 and Ayton are trying to find their way with KD on the team. The good news is that CP3 is still creating easy buckets averaging 9.3 assists.
 
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JCSunsfan

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I think different teams will try different things and it'll open things up for others - like Ayton - hopefully at some point. lol I love the big guy but not only does the environment have to be right, his mentals have to be also. If KD and Book are doing their thing, and if we're raining threes - defenses will be forced to concentrate less on the paint. If (and that's a 7' if) Ayton can rise to the occasion and be our inside man I can him having some 20/20 games

I thought our new line up would benefit Ayton more but all it's really done so far is erase DeAndre's midrange game - because those are occupied areas now. Even CP3 is rarely getting to his midrange spot. KD and Book have taken that whole area over, which is fine because they're both shooting 55% or better and they need to the space to create

Long story short - stopping the Suns is going to be very hard to do once we figure a few important things out
It was fascinating how much Dallas keyed on Ayton defensively in the last game. It looked like their game plan was to take anything easy away from Ayton, including offensive rebounds, and just give Book and Durant one shot--hoping they would miss.

I also thought that those two would open the floor for Ayton, but so far, it has not.
 

Covert Rain

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Ayton seems to be adjusting a little better than CP3. Since KD joined:

2 Pointers - 13/20 (65%)
10. 6 PPG
11.6 RPG

So, Deandra is still shooting a good % and rebounding the ball. It's his overall number of shots that are down.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Taking a gander at the NBA website I see that in the last 3 games the Suns have generated 67 wide open threes (nearest defender 6+ feet away). They made 40% of those shots and players not named Okogie went 22/48 (46%) on those shots. As long as Monty doesn't ride the cold hand for too long it will backfire on the opposing team in most games.

 

95pro

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Stay home on Book and KD, make Ayton beat you.
 

urs

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If Ayton had better hands and didn't think he was pistol Pete by dribbling all the time, the entry passes would be far more effective.
 

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JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

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Hopefully, Chris snaps out of his funk. We need him too. Since KD joined?

3 Pointers - 5/17 (29%)
2 Pointers - 9/25 (36%)

That's just aweful. Definitely feels like both CP3 and Ayton are trying to find their way with KD on the team. The good news is that CP3 is still creating easy buckets averaging 9.3 assists.
I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
I don't think you can say shooting 17 threes not including his other shots passing up shots. He is just missing them the last 3 games.
 

TJ

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Ayton seems to be adjusting a little better than CP3. Since KD joined:

2 Pointers - 13/20 (65%)
10. 6 PPG
11.6 RPG

So, Deandra is still shooting a good % and rebounding the ball. It's his overall number of shots that are down.
I dont think Ayton adjusting was ever going to be an issue. It's on Monty and the perimeter guys to be aware that if they're going to sell out on defending outside, that there's a guy inside who's good for a basket. Conversely, when the opposition then sells out inside, DA can pass back out and let Book, CP3 or Durant shoot. With our starters, there's always an easy way to score.

Best way to stop the Suns would be to take advantage of when the bench comes in. Our bench isnt particularly great in any one category and guys like Ross are struggling on defense. Stagger a few starters with the second unit and go from there. This is where the Nuggets or Warriors become a problem because they have the personnel to do that
 

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I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
omg CP3 defense of late has been hard to watch, with KD, Book, Ayton, and Okogie out there all they have to do is work their way to Chris Paul and it's pigeon dot com. Offensive players both bigger and quicker. I thought Luka was posting up Kevin Hart there for a minute
 
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JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

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omg CP3 defense of late has been hard to watch, with KD, Book, Ayton, and Okogie out there all they have to do is work their way to Chris Paul and it's pigeon dot com. Offensive players both bigger and quicker. I thought Luka was posting up Kevin Hart there for a minute
He stepped it up last night.
 

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