How to stop the Suns

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
21,754
Reaction score
6,138
The idea that is being proposed is that you double Book and Durant and make the other guys score. People are saying that CP3 is going to have to be able to score, so is Okogie etc.

I just don't think I agree. First, you cannot double BOTH Durant and Book. That is nearly an impossible way to defend. It leaves one player to cover the other three on the floor. The second problem is that both Durant and Book do not have that great of difficulty scoring on double teams--they both do it regularly.

Seems to me the only solution is to try to outscore the Suns. Make them work so hard on D that they are gassed on offense. Run a switching defense and hope they miss. That''s about it.

I do think the most effective defensive strategy will be to dog CP3 full-court. Try to make CP3 turn the ball over, or at least rob them of clock time.

Curious about your thoughts.
 

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
24,795
Reaction score
13,532
The ball handler will be doubled for sure. At the speed we do our handoffs the switching will be nuts on defense and bound to cause mistakes. I think we need to expect Chris and whomever is the 2nd to hit open threes because they will get a ton of them.

I think we could truly unlock if we play Durant at the 5 sometimes. Especially against the Nuggets when Jokic is on the floor. We need two of Shamet, Payne, Ross, Ish, TJ, Craig, or Josh to be "on" every night IMO. And we need to find those two faster than we did in Dallas.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,983
Reaction score
11,798
Location
Arizona
The idea that is being proposed is that you double Book and Durant and make the other guys score. People are saying that CP3 is going to have to be able to score, so is Okogie etc.

I just don't think I agree. First, you cannot double BOTH Durant and Book. That is nearly an impossible way to defend. It leaves one player to cover the other three on the floor. The second problem is that both Durant and Book do not have that great of difficulty scoring on double teams--they both do it regularly.

Seems to me the only solution is to try to outscore the Suns. Make them work so hard on D that they are gassed on offense. Run a switching defense and hope they miss. That''s about it.

I do think the most effective defensive strategy will be to dog CP3 full-court. Try to make CP3 turn the ball over, or at least rob them of clock time.

Curious about your thoughts.
What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,876
Reaction score
51,176
Location
SoCal
What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.
Right. I’d like to see more dumps into aytin when those double teams come.
 

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,577
Reaction score
26,233
Location
Scottsdale, Az
What do you mean you can't? We have seen it already. You don't have to double them at the same time. Seems like teams are just rotating the double depending on which one of them has the ball. For the most part KD and Book are going to get their points but there is a reason we had so many open 3 point shots. CP3, Ayton and our 3 point shooters are going to need to do their jobs.

CP3 is hitting 58% of his catch and shoot 3s.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
CP3 is hitting 58% of his catch and shoot 3s.
50%, but still they will get torched if they just let him have them. Same with giving pretty much anyone of our wings wide open threes from the corners. You just can't leave NBA players wide open in the corner.
 

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,577
Reaction score
26,233
Location
Scottsdale, Az
50%, but still they will get torched if they just let him have them. Same with giving pretty much anyone of our wings wide open threes from the corners. You just can't leave NBA players wide open in the corner.

They said 58% on 98.7 two days ago. It's apparently a career high.

Usage he is down to 13% so he really is just being a shooter / passer right now.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
10,749
Reaction score
13,675
Location
Arcadia
I think different teams will try different things and it'll open things up for others - like Ayton - hopefully at some point. lol I love the big guy but not only does the environment have to be right, his mentals have to be also. If KD and Book are doing their thing, and if we're raining threes - defenses will be forced to concentrate less on the paint. If (and that's a 7' if) Ayton can rise to the occasion and be our inside man I can him having some 20/20 games

I thought our new line up would benefit Ayton more but all it's really done so far is erase DeAndre's midrange game - because those are occupied areas now. Even CP3 is rarely getting to his midrange spot. KD and Book have taken that whole area over, which is fine because they're both shooting 55% or better and they need to the space to create

Long story short - stopping the Suns is going to be very hard to do once we figure a few important things out
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
They said 58% on 98.7 two days ago. It's apparently a career high.

Usage he is down to 13% so he really is just being a shooter / passer right now.
Not sure what they are seeing, but it's here on the NBA website.

 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,983
Reaction score
11,798
Location
Arizona
Hopefully, Chris snaps out of his funk. We need him too. Since KD joined?

3 Pointers - 5/17 (29%)
2 Pointers - 9/25 (36%)

That's just aweful. Definitely feels like both CP3 and Ayton are trying to find their way with KD on the team. The good news is that CP3 is still creating easy buckets averaging 9.3 assists.
 
OP
OP
JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
21,754
Reaction score
6,138
I think different teams will try different things and it'll open things up for others - like Ayton - hopefully at some point. lol I love the big guy but not only does the environment have to be right, his mentals have to be also. If KD and Book are doing their thing, and if we're raining threes - defenses will be forced to concentrate less on the paint. If (and that's a 7' if) Ayton can rise to the occasion and be our inside man I can him having some 20/20 games

I thought our new line up would benefit Ayton more but all it's really done so far is erase DeAndre's midrange game - because those are occupied areas now. Even CP3 is rarely getting to his midrange spot. KD and Book have taken that whole area over, which is fine because they're both shooting 55% or better and they need to the space to create

Long story short - stopping the Suns is going to be very hard to do once we figure a few important things out
It was fascinating how much Dallas keyed on Ayton defensively in the last game. It looked like their game plan was to take anything easy away from Ayton, including offensive rebounds, and just give Book and Durant one shot--hoping they would miss.

I also thought that those two would open the floor for Ayton, but so far, it has not.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,983
Reaction score
11,798
Location
Arizona
Ayton seems to be adjusting a little better than CP3. Since KD joined:

2 Pointers - 13/20 (65%)
10. 6 PPG
11.6 RPG

So, Deandra is still shooting a good % and rebounding the ball. It's his overall number of shots that are down.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
Taking a gander at the NBA website I see that in the last 3 games the Suns have generated 67 wide open threes (nearest defender 6+ feet away). They made 40% of those shots and players not named Okogie went 22/48 (46%) on those shots. As long as Monty doesn't ride the cold hand for too long it will backfire on the opposing team in most games.

 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
11,931
Reaction score
3,568
Stay home on Book and KD, make Ayton beat you.
 

urs

All Star
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Posts
820
Reaction score
1,961
Location
Carefree
If Ayton had better hands and didn't think he was pistol Pete by dribbling all the time, the entry passes would be far more effective.
 

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,577
Reaction score
26,233
Location
Scottsdale, Az
OP
OP
JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
21,754
Reaction score
6,138
Hopefully, Chris snaps out of his funk. We need him too. Since KD joined?

3 Pointers - 5/17 (29%)
2 Pointers - 9/25 (36%)

That's just aweful. Definitely feels like both CP3 and Ayton are trying to find their way with KD on the team. The good news is that CP3 is still creating easy buckets averaging 9.3 assists.
I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,983
Reaction score
11,798
Location
Arizona
I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
I don't think you can say shooting 17 threes not including his other shots passing up shots. He is just missing them the last 3 games.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
33,724
Reaction score
18,570
Location
South Bay
Ayton seems to be adjusting a little better than CP3. Since KD joined:

2 Pointers - 13/20 (65%)
10. 6 PPG
11.6 RPG

So, Deandra is still shooting a good % and rebounding the ball. It's his overall number of shots that are down.
I dont think Ayton adjusting was ever going to be an issue. It's on Monty and the perimeter guys to be aware that if they're going to sell out on defending outside, that there's a guy inside who's good for a basket. Conversely, when the opposition then sells out inside, DA can pass back out and let Book, CP3 or Durant shoot. With our starters, there's always an easy way to score.

Best way to stop the Suns would be to take advantage of when the bench comes in. Our bench isnt particularly great in any one category and guys like Ross are struggling on defense. Stagger a few starters with the second unit and go from there. This is where the Nuggets or Warriors become a problem because they have the personnel to do that
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
10,749
Reaction score
13,675
Location
Arcadia
I don't think CP3 is trying to find his way. He knows his way. He wants to be a facilitator first, so he is passing up his shots for the other two. I am not concerned about his offense, its his defense.
omg CP3 defense of late has been hard to watch, with KD, Book, Ayton, and Okogie out there all they have to do is work their way to Chris Paul and it's pigeon dot com. Offensive players both bigger and quicker. I thought Luka was posting up Kevin Hart there for a minute
 
OP
OP
JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
21,754
Reaction score
6,138
omg CP3 defense of late has been hard to watch, with KD, Book, Ayton, and Okogie out there all they have to do is work their way to Chris Paul and it's pigeon dot com. Offensive players both bigger and quicker. I thought Luka was posting up Kevin Hart there for a minute
He stepped it up last night.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
534,767
Posts
5,246,079
Members
6,273
Latest member
sarahmoose
Top