Greatest trades in PHX sports history...

[Shane]

Yeah...

Nah

 

[Shane]

I SAW JORDAN PLAY. Give me a break with this type of stuff. This has nothing to do with being the most recognizable face on the planet. It was about who is the greatest basketball player. The debate is already out there by people who have seen Jordan play...

and they’re wrong

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah...

Nope

 

[AzStevenCal]

I SAW JORDAN PLAY. Give me a break with this type of stuff. This has nothing to do with being the most recognizable face on the planet. It was about who is the greatest basketball player. The debate is already out there by people who have seen Jordan play...

Sure but there were old and young fans alike that took Kobe's side in this argument at one time and he was nowhere near the player Jordan or James were at their best.

Lebron is special but he's never had the ability to raise the level of play of his teammates to the extent that Michael did. And Michael, when the Bulls needed a stop, was a much better defender. It's tough to compare across eras but I think James is second best all time but a distant second best at that. Wilt blows them both away if you're just talking about Wilt when he wanted to dominate but night in and night out, it's MJ IMO.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Nope

Yes sir.

 

[Shane]

Sure but there were old and young fans alike that took Kobe's side in this argument at one time and he was nowhere near the player Jordan or James were at their best.

Lebron is special but he's never had the ability to raise the level of play of his teammates to the extent that Michael did. And Michael, when the Bulls needed a stop, was a much better defender. It's tough to compare across eras but I think James is second best all time but a distant second best at that. Wilt blows them both away if you're just talking about Wilt when he wanted to dominate but night in and night out, it's MJ IMO.

Correct on all accounts and it’s not even close... People have short memories

 

[dreamcastrocks]

and they’re wrong

People don't want to admit that Lebron might be better. Like it would ruin what Jordan accomplished, or tarnish the glory days of basketball somehow...

When Jordan was at his prime and ended his career, I thought there would never be a player that would come close to being the player than Jordan was. Now we have had two players come along afterwards and make it an interesting debate... if you have an open mind that is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

People don't want to admit that Lebron might be better. Like it would ruin what Jordan accomplished, or tarnish the glory days of basketball somehow...

When Jordan was at his prime and ended his career, I thought there would never be a player that would come close to being the player than Jordan was. Now we have had two players come along afterwards and make it an interesting debate... if you have an open mind that is.

An open minded person might realize that people hold different views on this for reasons other than being closed minded. I have no love for Michael and 35 years ago I was on the Magic bandwagon. It took me a long time to accept that Magic was great but he just wasn't in Jordan's category, no one ever has been IMO. And that's across all major US sports AFAIC.

Today's NBA fan gets to see far more of this sport than fans did during the Jordan era could have ever hoped to and I think that has a lot to do with why a lot of fans feel as you do. But I think you'd find that fans in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's would still choose Jordan overwhelmingly and not because they are tied to the past or to the glory days of basketball. Keep in mind those age groups span more than just one or two eras of basketball. Some of those fans can't see past the Auerbach era but most of them would still begrudgingly admit that Jordan was the greatest.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

An open minded person might realize that people hold different views on this for reasons other than being closed minded. I have no love for Michael and 35 years ago I was on the Magic bandwagon. It took me a long time to accept that Magic was great but he just wasn't in Jordan's category, no one ever has been IMO. And that's across all major US sports AFAIC.

Today's NBA fan gets to see far more of this sport than fans did during the Jordan era could have ever hoped to and I think that has a lot to do with why a lot of fans feel as you do. But I think you'd find that fans in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's would still choose Jordan overwhelmingly and not because they are tied to the past or to the glory days of basketball. Keep in mind those age groups span more than just one or two eras of basketball. Some of those fans can't see past the Auerbach era but most of them would still begrudgingly admit that Jordan was the greatest.

Exactly on the first bolded part.

How do I feel exactly?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Exactly on the first bolded part.

How do I feel exactly?

Well, I don't know, I can only take you at your words. Was your point not that it's a legitimate argument as long as you have an open mind? And by extension, if you don't think it's a legitimate argument then you're not open minded?

When Michael ascended to the throne, the argument became Michael or Bird in the East and in the West it was Michael or Magic. After those two retired, that argument was retired. But it didn't take long for people to try and say it was Jordan or Barkley or Jordan vs Hakeem and then it was Jordan or Kobe and now it's Jordan vs Lebron.

In twenty years I have no doubt this debate will be between Jordan and Zion or Jordan and AD or Jordan vs Giannis or Jordan vs Durant or Jordan vs somebody not even on the basketball horizon. Eventually a player will come along that moves Jordan into the Oscar, Russell, Wilt, Kareem group of not-quite's that predated Michael's reign but we haven't seen that player yet IMO.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, I don't know, I can only take you at your words. Was your point not that it's a legitimate argument as long as you have an open mind?

When Michael ascended to the throne, the argument became Michael or Bird in the East and in the West it was Michael or Magic. After those two retired, that argument was retired. But it didn't take long for people to try and say it was Jordan or Barkley or Jordan vs Hakeem and then it was Jordan or Kobe and now it's Jordan vs Lebron.

In twenty years I have no doubt this debate will be between Jordan and Zion or Jordan and AD or Jordan vs Giannis or Jordan vs Durant or Jordan vs somebody not even on the basketball horizon. Eventually a player will come along that moves Jordan into the Oscar, Russell, Wilt, Kareem group of not-quite's that predated Michael's reign but we haven't seen that player yet IMO.

Pretty much. I will agree that there was a debate with most of the players out there, Barkley/Hakeem etc, but I don't think it was as close our as serious of a debate as Kobe or Lebron.

I'll disagree with you that we aren't already there. (with Lebron) We should probably leave it at though, unless we wanted to discuss this in the Suns forum.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Right now it is Barkley for me. This is Nuk's first year here. See me in 5 years.

And 100,000 people (including me) at the parade for a team that lost in the title series. The Suns set the state on fire like I have never seen. And baseball is my favorite sport.

This. And it was 300,000... in the middle of June on the hottest day of the year. My favorite team ever.

all that said, my ass they didn’t choke. They looked like deer in headlights in Game 1 at hone and got run off the floor. Lost a must win Game 2 at home also. Battled valiantly back in Chicago to bring the series home, had a four point lead with 50 seconds left AND the ball as Westphaul LITERALLY gave Majerle a joke “choke sign” at the timeout and then choked their third hone game away and the series.

also, in 1995, in Game 5 against Houston, up 3-1 at home (again) and 3 points with ten seconds left, Barkley was at the line. All he had to do was hit ONE FT to make it a 4 point game and end the series. He choked and missed BOTH. The rockets scored a three to send it to OT where we lost and then blew the rest of the series when Barkley hurt his knee in the third quarter of Game 6.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Right now it is Barkley for me. This is Nuk's first year here. See me in 5 years.

And 100,000 people (including me) at the parade for a team that lost in the title series. The Suns set the state on fire like I have never seen. And baseball is my favorite sport.

This. And it was 300,000... in the middle of June on the hottest day of the year. My favorite team ever.

all that said, my ass they didn’t choke. They looked like deer in headlights in Game 1 at hone and got run off the floor. Lost a must win Game 2 at home also. Battled valiantly back in Chicago to bring the series home, had a four point lead with 50 seconds left AND the ball as Westphaul LITERALLY gave Majerle a joke “choke sign” at the timeout and then choked their third hone game away and the series.

also, in 1995, in Game 5 against Houston, up 3-1 at home (again) and 3 points with ten seconds left, Barkley was at the line. All he had to do was hit ONE FT to make it a 4 point game and end the series. He choked and missed BOTH. The rockets scored a three to send it to OT where we lost and then blew the rest of the series when Barkley hurt his knee in the third quarter of Game 6.