Gandhi mock draft

Gandhi

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It’s that time of year where I participate in a mock draft game (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanfootball/gm-mock-2025-drafttr-den-t2369.html). The structure is as you know it from the real one with 32 people being the general manager of the 32 teams. I was obviously again the Cardinals. Last year I was asked to write posts about each selection instead of all of it in one long post, so I will do that again. I will also copy each one into this original post, so you can also read it as a forthgoing story, if you prefer that.

A big part of the draft is obviously about filling holes, and in my opinion, the defense by far needs the most upgrades. Sure, I would like to find an offensive lineman or two, but if I have an offensive- and a defensive players ranked similarly at a selection, I will go with the defensive one

It’s only about a week ago that I posted my top five rankings here, but there have already been some changes, so I will note it again. Since before Christmas, Shemar Stewart has been my #1 ranked (I have not included Mason Graham and Abdul Carter because why would I? They will be long gone anyway), because of his enormous potential. I am probably in the minority, but I think that Ossenfort has done a fine job in raising the floor level of the team, so now it is time to add superstars. The players that make the small difference between a win and a loss. Stewart could be that guy. However, I have started to think that you only draft him if you have a lot of trust in your defensive line-coach, and Winston DeLattiboudere was obviously just hired. Instead, I think that more “proven” players are the way to go, which is why I have moved Mykel Williams and Kenneth Grant above Stewart on the Cards board. Picking them is the right thing to do, so to speak, even though Stewart might have the biggest potential of any player in the entire draft.

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Round 1

I had five players I would draft at #16, but both Grant and CB Will Johnson were gone. Therefore, the options were:

Edge rusher Mykel Williams, Georgia

To understand Williams, you need to understand that he played both hurt and out of position last season. For whatever reason, he spent a good amount of time in a 4i-role, which he can certainly do, but it doesn’t exploit his strengths to the fullest. I think he was used there partly because he is a great run defender, and partly because Georgia has 5-star players all over the defensive line, so to get them all on the field they had to move some players around. But make no mistake: Williams has the potential of a franchise changing player. He was awesome for long stretches of the 2023 campaign.

Edge rusher Shemar Stewart, Texas A&M

Well, I already covered him in the beginning. Stewart has the ceiling of an All Pro, but there is no way to argue against the fact that he hasn’t produced much stats-wise yet. His tape shows that he affects the game a lot, though, and his potential makes him a very attractive option.

Edge rusher Donovan Ezeiruaku, Boston College

I have no idea why so many are singing Mike Green’s praise over Ezeiruaku. I mean, I understand that fans mostly follow the professional analysts (that is not a critic, by the way), and fortunately, those analysts are starting to catch up to Ezeiruaku. The point is that they are basically the same players (almost same size, same production, same playing style, same workout numbers), but Ezeiruaku have done it through multiple years at a higher level, and he has longer arms and bigger hands. I don’t know. It is very confusing to me. The only reason I could be convinced to lean toward Green is that he might be more of a Gannon-player as he plays slighter more aggressively and violent than Ezeiruaku.

With the #16 pick, the Arizona Cardinals select

Mykel Williams, edge rusher, Georgia


The Broncos offered #20, #85 (third round) and #208 (sixth round), and I did consider it. In the end I chose to go with the #1 ranked player, though.

I explained it in another post, so bear with me if you have already read it, but the Cardinals use different types of edge rushers in their base-defense and nickel-defense. In base-defense, most likely Darius Robinson and Josh Sweat will occupy the two edges, but in nickel they will bring in one more, as Robinson slides a little inside. As a rookie, Williams can back up Sweat in base-defense and play opposite him in nickel.

Last season was an embarrassment pass rush-wise, and they need to add multiple players to improve it. Signing Josh Sweat was a great start, but he is a very good #2 and should not be a team’s best edge rusher. Darius Robinson and B.J. Ojulari could potentially become superstars, but I would not count on that as the Cards’ only hope. Mykel Williams have the making of a stud, and having an edge rush-unit consisting of Sweat, Ojulari, Browning, Williams, and Robinson mixed in on certain downs has a lot of promises.

By the way, later the Bengals' GM told me that he would have taken Williams at #17, while Seahawks would have taken Stewart at #18 (they took him at #20 after trading with the Broncos). Thus, it was very fortunate that I did not sell my pick.

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Round 2

This was an easy pick for me, and I traded up to make it. I tried to talk to some different teams, and in the end, I made a deal with Dallas. They got mine #47 and I got their #44. Further we swopped pick in the fifth round, so they got mine #152, while I moved down to their #171 spot.

I think that the prize was a little steep, but on the other hand I did not have to lose any picks, and I got the guy I wanted.

Oh, and it turns out that the Falcons at #46 had two trade offers, but both buyers withdraw their offer when I moved up for Jackson, so I would not have gotten him with my original pick.

My options, when I didn’t know that the trade would happen:

Alfred Collins, defensive tackle, Texas

In January I noted in my rankings that DT Tyleik Williams from Ohio State was the best scheme fit of all players in this draft, but I was wrong, because Collins is at least as good, if not better. As I wrote in my mock draft last year, with the Cards’ second first-round pick I considered drafting DT T’Vondre Sweat from Texas, and Collins actually replaced Sweat in that specific role in Texas’ defense. He is a monstrous nose tackle who also has some pass rush to his game. However, like with Sweat last year, it is difficult for me to justify taking a nose tackle in the first two rounds considering what they do in Gannon’s scheme (Kenneth Grant would be the exception because of his wild potential).

Aireontae Ersery, offensive tackle, Minnesota

After multiple years in Minnesota’s outside zone system, I think he would be a good fit at guard, with the option of moving him to tackle if need be.

Trey Amos, cornerback, Ole Miss

He is a Gannon-CB with his size, aggressive mentality, first-class press-man abilities, and good zone coverage. However, you also need to develop the young guys you drafted last year. It doesn’t mean I will definitely not draft a CB later, but not this early (unless it is an absolute stud).

With the #44 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Donovan Jackson, offensive guard, Ohio State


When the first round ended, and Jackson was still on the board, I started considering option to get him. He is the #23 ranked on the overall board, but #6 on the Cards board. I would not be shocked if Ossenfort selected him at #16, and I could easily see him being the pick if they traded down.

We all know the history with Jackson, Paris Johnson and Justin Frye, and I think it could be a great left side for many years. Jackson fit in pretty much any offensive line-scheme, so that is also not a problem. Actually, there is no such thing as a safe draft pick, but it’s hard to see this go wrong.

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Round 3

As my pick came closer, the Bears contacted me about buying #78. I wanted to sell because I had several targets, and the Bears were at #82, so I would still get one I like. However, the Bears didn’t have many picks after trading earlier, and they did not want to part way with their 5th rounder, so they could only offer me #240 (7th). I thought about it and decided to accept. It was too little, but on the other hand it was still more than nothing. Maybe I can use the pick as ammunition later, if there is someone I want to trade up for, and if not, well, there is no such thing as a worthless draft pick. Maybe I can select a future Hall of Famer.

My targets both before and after the trade were:

Denzel Burke, cornerback, Ohio State

He was awesome in 2023 – surefire first-round pick – but then had a bad year in 2024. At times he looked undraftable, but most often he just looked fine. However, we have seen the potential, and I believe in Gannon’s abilities with cornerbacks.

Kyle Williams, wide receiver, Washington State

Williams caught my eye at the Senior Bowl where he won almost all his one-on-one reps. That made me look more into it, and he has also played very well at Washington State. I especially like his acceleration, and I think Cards need more of a speed element at WR. At the Senior Bowl, Williams was measured with the highest top speed of any participants (21.36 mph).

Quincy Riley, cornerback, Louisville

Another player that got my attention at the Senior Bowl. I think he was the best CB there. He excels in man coverage, which is interesting because Nick Rallis called one of the highest amounts of cover 0-defenses (pure man coverage with no deep defender) in the NFL. Check this out:

Lowest passer rating allowed in single coverage in FBS since 2014:

1 – Sauce Gardner – 15.2

2 – Quincy Riley – 29.5

3 – Someone – 44.6

Demetrius Knight, linebacker, South Carolina

I like Knight a lot, and I think he would be a good replacement for Kyzir White.

Josaiah Stewart, edge rusher, Michigan

Yes, I understand that it would be a little much to go edge rusher with two of the first three selections, but I am a huge fan of Stewart. Maybe my favorite player in the entire draft. He is too small, but he plays so hard and aggressively, and he does get results from it. I believe he has one of the highest pass rush win rates against true pass sets (no screen passes, rollouts and play action passes). I would be very excited with him as the pass rushing SAM in nickel-defense.

With the #82 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Deone Walker, nose tackle, Kentucky


I wanted Grant in the first round, and when I did not get him, I knew I had to find the right spot for a NT somewhere, because I badly want them to upgrade the defensive line. Getting Bilal Nichols and Justin Jones back, and signing Dalvin Tomlinson, will likely make it better – even after losing Roy Lopez – but I want more.

However, it needs to be a certain type of DT, so I had to position myself to where it made sense. I thought about trading far up to target Alfred Collins, who I considered with my second-round pick, but the prize would have been too high. Joshua Farmer and Jordan Phillips would be more of what they already have, and Shemar Turner is a bad scheme fit. So, should it only be a later round pick? I was pretty much out of obvious options.

So I decided to go with a major boom-or-bust prospect in Walker. I said from the start that I would target potential superstars in the draft, and Walker could potentially be that. I think that he is an early day three guy, but I figured that I would have to take him with this pick because of the potential he brings. Someone would have taken a chance on him. He is a mammoth human being, but he also has the movement skills of a much smaller player. He could be great in their one-and-a-half gap scheme as he showed with some of his reps at the Senior Bowl where there were flashes of dominance. He brings something to the defensive line that they don’t currently have in any other player.

He had a down year, both on video and statistically, but it was later revealed that he played with a broken back. That sounds difficult to do, but as far as I know, he is supposed to heal up fine.

His biggest problem is that his stamina is simply not good enough. He disappears from games. But that is correctable, plus it should help him a lot to be part of a bigger rotation. There are also some technique issues, but I put my hope in the new defensive line-coach to fix that.

I think he has a very high ceiling, but he could probably also completely flame out.

On day three (fourth round through the rest) the boards are so individual that I would not be surprised if some of my targets were still available the next time I pick.

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Round 4

Only one of my targets from the last pick was still on the board, so you could say this was an easy pick. However, I did consider another selection.

Kyle McCord, quarterback, Syracuse

I will start this little write-up by noting that I don’t believe in Kyler Murray. I have lost hope that he can lead the team longer than maybe one playoff-game.

I have been a fan of McCord since before Christmas when I saw him play for the first time (other than viewing film of Marvin Harrison).

First of all, there is something to be said about driving a team to success, and McCord obviously did that by leading Ohio State to an 11-1 record and a Bowl win, and Syracuse to their best record since 2018 and a Bowl win.

Second, Jordan Palmer might be the best personal draft prospect-quarterback coach out there, and it piqued my interest even more when I found out that he basically recruited McCord to train under him. It’s usually the other way around.

One of the most interesting things Palmer is working on is to make quarterback-play more measurable, so that evaluations can be more objective. One step in that process was when he hosted the Wilson QBX Throwing Session at the East-West Shrine-Game. In that they used footballs with censors in them, and McCord’s performance was the best among the participants in several categories:

Spiral efficiency – 93% (NFL average is 81%. McCord in 95+ percentile)

Spin rate – 699 RPM average (NFL average is 592 RPM. McCord in 95+ percentile)

Velocity – 49.4 MPH average (NFL average is 44.8 MPH. McCord in 95+ percentile)

Velocity max – 55.7 MPH (NFL average is 52.6 MPH. McCord in 80+ percentile).

Another tool that Palmer uses, is something called an AIQ test, which was invented and developed by two psychologists, and is used across all the big sport leagues in the US, including 10 NFL teams. It is designed to determine a QB’s complete intelligence profile, as well as his ability to physically and mentally solve the “constantly mutating puzzle” of an NFL game (the creators’ words). The test measure things like learning efficiency, spatial awareness, reaction time and what is called “manipulation/rotation”, which is the quarterbacks’ ability to read a defense from the pocket. McCord’s performance on the test was elite, including scoring the highest bucket (superior) in five different categories, and being very close in two others.

Further, when blitzed, McCord was the second-best QB among quarterback prospects from 2023 and 2024 in their last season in college, and when pressured, he was number 4 behind only Bo Nix, Jayden Daniels and J.J. McCarthy.

Is all that data enough to take a chance on McCord? Well, in the 4th round I certainly think it is. The only reason I did not take him is what I have been saying all along – that this draft is about finding the superstars. McCord might become that, but this year he probably doesn’t do much. I think they will only carry two quarterbacks on the final 53, and Brissett is obviously the primary backup.

With the #115 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Denzel Burke, cornerback, Ohio State


I think many people are too negative on Burke. Sure, he was humiliated in the first game against Oregon, but for the most part he was fine the rest of the season. He was awesome in both 2021 and 2023, so his biggest problem is obviously stability. I am banking on Gannon’s magic with cornerbacks here, and if he can raise Burke’s floor, he might have a true #1 on his team.

I am very confused about which CB’s the Cards like the most. Gannon has a long history with one type, but then Ossenfort draft Elijah Jones and bring in Asante Samuel for a visit – two outside cornerbacks that are very far from what Gannon have been working with for 12 years across five teams. But I take a guess and are going back to the type that he has always preferred.

By the way, Marvin Harrison can probably tell them a thing or two about how good Denzel Burke can be.

It will be a while now until I am on the clock again. Probably at some point in the weekend, I would guess. I obviously cannot say now what position I will target, but I hope there is a WR of value at that spot. We will see.

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Round 5

As my selection came closer, I started hoping that WR Jaylin Lane would be on the board. I had decided that I would not trade up after him, because I am already down a selection in the sixth round, so I didn’t want even less. I just think that Lane is almost exactly what the offense needs, and especially his 4.34 speed would open things up for everyone else. However, Lane was drafted four spots ahead of me.

That made me try to trade back, because now I suddenly had several targets, since the obvious one got drafted. However, the only offer I got was from the Broncos who offered #191 and #208 for my #171 and #208. Not only did I not want to go all the way from #171 to #191, but I also wanted at the very least to get one additional pick for selling mine.

Because I don’t have a pick in the next round, I had to consider targets that I originally would have taken a little later than #171.

My targets were:

Ahmed Hassanein, edge rusher, Boise State

He really caught my eye at the East-West shrine bowl. He looked unblockable in the one-on-one sessions and won with several different types of moves. So that made me go back to doing some research on him and watch some video on him. It turned out that he did not start playing American football until 2018. In that light, it is pretty impressive that he has created 22 sacks and 32 TFL the last two seasons. Talk about developmental potential.

Thor Griffith, defensive tackle, Louisville

As a Nordic person I feel a responsibility for drafting a guy named Thor.

And, in all seriousness, he is actually good and would be a natural scheme fit.

KeAndre Lambert-Smith, wide receiver, Auburn

Selecting Lambert-Smith was kind of my automatic reaction when Jaylin Lane got taken, because he is a WR, but also because he has some of the same characteristics (he is just a little worse at them), and he would still give the offense the dimension of a true deep threat. If he is there in the 7th round, I will almost certainly take him, but as for #171, it would have been too much of ignoring value with other players.

Dylan Fairchild, offensive guard, Georgia

Fairchild would be a good value pick at #171, but he fell because I drafted Donovan Jackson since Fairchild is a guard only prospect.

Jah Joyner, edge rusher, Minnesota

Joyner is an athletic wonder, and he tested through the roof at the scouting combine. Specifically, he reached to highest MPH in both the 40-yard dash and both in pass rush drills and “the wave drill” (running sideways left and right), and second highest in two other position drills. Now, obviously that doesn’t necessarily directly transfer to the field, but this is the fifth round, so you go by potential.

It would be attractive to reunite him with the new defensive line coach, Winston DeLattibourde, who was Joyner’s DC in Minnesota the last couple of seasons.

With the #171 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Que Robinson, linebacker, Alabama


Robinson is ranked ahead of Hassanein and Joyner because he is more of a defensive weapon than a traditional edge rusher, even though he has played most of his defensive snaps at that position. Actually, his primary role at Alabama has been on special teams where he has played more than 600 snaps across all four types of units (kick coverage both ways and punt coverage both ways). However, when Robinson finally got a bigger chance as an edge rusher this season, he caused four sacks and seven TFL in only 108 pass rush snaps, before an injury stopped his season after nine games. He had an insane pass rush win rate at 24%. With the pick of Williams, an edge rusher is obviously not that big of a need anymore, but Robinson has also played snaps at ILB, and he is even a safety originally, so there are a lot of options with his development. However, special teams are the primary reason for this pick, but because he has played so little on defense, and because he is a great athlete, his potential is very big.

Now there will again be a long time before I am on the clock since I don’t have a pick in the sixth round.

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Round 7

I guess I should be happy that no one from the game looks at this forum since after my fifth-round pick I wrote exactly what I was going to do with this pick. I did not consider other players.

With the #225 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

KeAndre Lambert-Smith, wide receiver, Auburn


He was good for four years at Penn State, and then he moved to Auburn before this season and posted one of the best WR seasons in the school’s history. Actually, he was held back a bit because of bad quarterback-play. Obviously, there are issues if a guy is available in the 7th round, but I try to focus mostly on the potential, and I think Lambert-Smith could be a positive surprise. Last season - among Power 4 WR’s with a minimum of 300 snaps – he finished 5th in yards per route run, 3rd in 20+ yard receptions per catch, and 2nd in yards per reception.

He is fast as the wind, and he uses great balance, strong hands, and an impressive ability to separate in the end of a route to be a dependable deep target. He has not run a lot of different routes (because that is just how the offense’s systems are at those two schools), so he is clearly limited to a specific role in the beginning, but I think he could be a great fit as the deep threat that opens up the offense for Harrison, McBride, Connor, Murray and everyone else.

I miss speed on the offense. I think that it is too easy for the defense to read what happens when they don’t need to be too worried about if someone is going to run away from them.

I had some options I would consider at this spot if Lambert-Smith had not been available, so now I hope that they slide to my last pick later in the 7th round.

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Round 7 – second pick

I liked several players as my second 7th round selection approached, so I tried to trade back a few spots. Unfortunately, there were only three teams after me with two selections left, and we are not allowed to use future picks as payment, so it was not possible.

My thoughts were:

Efton Chism III, wide receiver, Eastern Washington

This guy first got on my radar at the Hula Bowl, and then he followed it up by being the best WR at the East-West shrine bowl. He has put up monster numbers this season and completely destroyed all the schools’ receiving records set by Cooper Kupp, but you do need to factor in the level of competition. That said, he does have qualities that are translatable to higher levels – like great route running, quick feet, safe hands, ability to separate – and he does in fact remind me a lot of Kupp.

Nick Martin, inside linebacker, Oklahoma State

I think he might be getting a little overlooked because he sat out with an injury most of the season, and because his career snap experience is relatively low, but there is no denying that he has potential. He had a highly impressive 2023 campaign, and that – along with his resume as a special teams dynamo - is what will get him drafted. He would be an obvious fit in Rallis’ scheme.

With the #240 pick the Arizona Cardinals select

Myles Hinton, offensive tackle, Michigan


These three players are ranked closely on the Cards board, so it mostly came down to positional value. Does it make sense to add a late round offensive lineman when you already have Christian Jones and Jon Gaines as developmental cases? The answer is yes.

This is a trait selection as Hinton has everything you want in an OT – he is enormous, strong, big wingspan – and then he also has quick feet and plays with fine balance. Now, as I noted at the previous pick, there are obviously some issues with a player that is available in the 7th round, but you see the potential with Hinton. All his limitations are things that could be fixed with coaching, and when you occasionally see his borderline elite athleticism and power to move in space, you are willing to take this chance.

By the way, he is the son of a two-time All Pro, and the brother of a nose tackle with the Chargers, so I guess he knows what NFL life is about.
 
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BritCard

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Mykel Williams is going to drop to the 2nd. If he was ever in round 1 contention he's had a bad draft process.

In a stacked class at edge he's not a 1st round pick.
 

Cardiac

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Hey Gandhi, love these posts. What edge and DT prospects were taken at 20 and a little later.
 

BritCard

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Would you care to elaborate a bit?

The public draft community came in with Williams where he is on big boards based on his previous seasons and expecting a step up, and never really adjusted that until recently.

Then they got to 2024 tape and it's pretty underwhelming. His pass rush win rate was poor at just 11% and his run stop rate is nothing special either. Then he only ran a 40 and it wasn't a good one at 4.74. He hasn't done any agility testing which is a red flag.

He's fallen behind several other Edge IMO and into round 1, but it only take 1, I hope it's not us.
 
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Gandhi

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Hey Gandhi, love these posts. What edge and DT prospects were taken at 20 and a little later.
Thanks Cardiac! Great to hear.

Yes, I should obviously have put a link in the original post. That is fixed now.

Before my pick, of DT, Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant were taken.
Of edge, Abdul Carter, Jalon Walker, Mike Green were gone.

In the rest of the first round, edge Shemar Stewart and James Pearce (and Jihaad Campbell) went, as well as DT Derrick Harmon and Walter Nolen.

Nic Scourton and Tyleik Williams were taken in the first four picks of the second round.
 
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Gandhi

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The public draft community came in with Williams where he is on big boards based on his previous seasons and expecting a step up, and never really adjusted that until recently.

Then they got to 2024 tape and it's pretty underwhelming. His pass rush win rate was poor at just 11% and his run stop rate is nothing special either.
As I wrote, you need to understand the player and usages before you can properly evaluate him.

Then he only ran a 40 and it wasn't a good one at 4.74. He hasn't done any agility testing which is a red flag.
Williams ran the 40 in 4.74 at 267 pounds. Nick Bosa ran it in 4.79 at 266 pounds. Aidan Hutchinson ran 4.74 at 260 pounds. Myles Garrett ran 4.64 at 272 pounds.

You need to be a bit more specific about how his 40 is bad, and how it will hurt his draft stock, because I don't understand it.

By the way, do you also expect Will Johnson and Jalon Walker to fall out of the first round?
 

Shane

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As I wrote, you need to understand the player and usages before you can properly evaluate him.


Williams ran the 40 in 4.74 at 267 pounds. Nick Bosa ran it in 4.79 at 266 pounds. Aidan Hutchinson ran 4.74 at 260 pounds. Myles Garrett ran 4.64 at 272 pounds.

You need to be a bit more specific about how his 40 is bad, and how it will hurt his draft stock, because I don't understand it.

By the way, do you also expect Will Johnson and Jalon Walker to fall out of the first round?
Why isn’t he doing agility tests?
 

Chopper0080

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Why isn’t he doing agility tests?
Returning from injury. Biggest issues for Williams IMO is injury history and questionable bend off the edge.

EDIT: He hasn't played over 407 snaps in any three seasons. People are saying his lack of bend and explosiveness are due to injury, but the counter argument is that he is always banged up so you don't see the bend and burst.
 

BritCard

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Returning from injury. Biggest issues for Williams IMO is injury history and questionable bend off the edge.

EDIT: He hasn't played over 407 snaps in any three seasons. People are saying his lack of bend and explosiveness are due to injury, but the counter argument is that he is always banged up so you don't see the bend and burst.

Yeah, you watch him and he's stiff. He has good technique, which is how he wins against inferior opposition, but I don't think he has the physical skills for that to translate to the NFL. For me he's a Golden type player. 8 sack a year guy tops, not worth a top 16 pick.

But I think his main issue, for me, is that in a strong Edge group there are just more tantalising options. Which is why I think he falls out of the first, or late 1st with a strong headwind.

I think NFL teams will like Carter, Stewart, Green, Ezeiruaku, Pearce and Scourton over Williams.
 

Chopper0080

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Yeah, you watch him and he's stiff. He has good technique, which is how he wins against inferior opposition, but I don't think he has the physical skills for that to translate to the NFL. For me he's a Golden type player. 8 sack a year guy tops, not worth a top 16 pick.

But I think his main issue, for me, is that in a strong Edge group there are just more tantalising options. Which is why I think he falls out of the first, or late 1st with a strong headwind.

I think NFL teams will like Carter, Stewart, Green, Ezeiruaku, Pearce and Scourton over Williams.
I think teams will like him better than Ez, Pearce or Scourton just because he can definitely play a three down role right away with his size. The close one is Pearce IMO because it is tough to tell how teams will view his off field stuff.
 

gmabel830

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Before free agency, I was very worried that we'd take Stewart given his lack of actual sack production on the field. After free agency, especially with adding Sweat/Tomlinson, we don't have such a glaring hole where I would be upset taking a gamble on the potential upside of Stewart.
 
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Gandhi

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Before free agency, I was very worried that we'd take Stewart given his lack of actual sack production on the field. After free agency, especially with adding Sweat/Tomlinson, we don't have such a glaring hole where I would be upset taking a gamble on the potential upside of Stewart.
I understand your point, Gmabel, but I think that both he and Mykel Williams are relatively safe choices in the sense that they are both great run defenders. Of course you draft them to sack the quarterback, but if that doesn't work out, at least you can always use players that are good against the run. In that sense I don't see it as such a big gamble.
 

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I think teams will like him better than Ez, Pearce or Scourton just because he can definitely play a three down role right away with his size. The close one is Pearce IMO because it is tough to tell how teams will view his off field stuff.
Yea, teams will definitely like him way more than Scourton at least. The way UGA plays their defense doesn’t really showcase individual abilities. They’re super assignment-heavy.
 

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I understand your point, Gmabel, but I think that both he and Mykel Williams are relatively safe choices in the sense that they are both great run defenders. Of course you draft them to sack the quarterback, but if that doesn't work out, at least you can always use players that are good against the run. In that sense I don't see it as such a big gamble.
We don't need another Zaven Collins, thank you. That's not an acceptable result.
 
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We don't need another Zaven Collins, thank you. That's not an acceptable result.
No, it's not. I completely agree, Stout. My point is just that I don't see them completely flame out, Nkemdiche-style.

I heard an interesting point that their strong run defense also allows them to get on the field while they are being coached up. Both Williams and Stewart have enormous pass rush-potential, but they are also pretty raw, so while the jackpot could be huge, you probably need a bit of patience - which is where the run defense-skills comes in.
 

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We don't need another Zaven Collins, thank you. That's not an acceptable result.
They are both in a different world as pass rushers than Zaven Collins. More of the difference of being an 8-12 guy vs a 10+ guy.
 

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You hope. Or, I should say, you're projecting. No one really knows. I am so, so out on Stewart because his floor is literally Zaven Collins.
Not really projecting too much. It is more based upon their skill set shown in college. Both Williams and Stewart played essentially on the line in a traditional defense. Zaven Collins played off-ball and stacked in a 3-3 defense. So while Stewart and Williams would struggle more than Collins did if being asked to play coverage and in space, they have significantly more reps and technique rushing from a NFL edge position.
 

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Not really projecting too much. It is more based upon their skill set shown in college. Both Williams and Stewart played essentially on the line in a traditional defense. Zaven Collins played off-ball and stacked in a 3-3 defense. So while Stewart and Williams would struggle more than Collins did if being asked to play coverage and in space, they have significantly more reps and technique rushing from a NFL edge position.
It is almost all projection with Stewart. He had beyond subpar sack production, so you cannot say his floor is so high at this point.
 

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It is almost all projection with Stewart. He had beyond subpar sack production, so you cannot say his floor is so high at this point.
I thought we were talking about his ability to rush the passer being better than Zaven Collins because it inarguably is?

If you are talking about my 8-10 sack comment, well that is because every drafted player's NFL production is a projection.

No one was saying that Javon Solomon should be a 1st round pick in last year's draft just because he led college football in sacks with 16.

Dallas Turner had 10 sacks in 2023 at Alabama. He got 3 his rookie season for the Vikings.

Micah Parsons had 6.5 sacks in his entire college career.

A reasonable floor for a 1st round edge player is believing they can be an 8-10 sack player regardless of their college production.
 

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Every scout wants the perfect player. Perfect height, weight, speed, strength. They want a choir boy who is also a dog. They want the player to be young but also have multiple years of experience. They want a prospect to do everything in the draft process but also make smart decisions about their body and the risks they take.

This leaves people in the draft process to choose between two lines of thinking. You can focus on what a player can't do, or you can focus on what a player can do. You can focus on the strengths or you can focus on the weaknesses.

So, when it comes to Stewart, you can focus on his positive traits or you can focus on the fact that his final two seasons produced 3.5 less sacks than Micah Parson's final two seasons.
 

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Travon Walker is probably the comp for Shemar Stewart. The production difference is 9.5 sacks over 3 seasons vs 4.5. Same amount of combined tackles, and Stewart had 1 less TFL. Walker went #1 and we are talking about Stewart being an option at #16.

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I thought we were talking about his ability to rush the passer being better than Zaven Collins because it inarguably is?

If you are talking about my 8-10 sack comment, well that is because every drafted player's NFL production is a projection.

No one was saying that Javon Solomon should be a 1st round pick in last year's draft just because he led college football in sacks with 16.

Dallas Turner had 10 sacks in 2023 at Alabama. He got 3 his rookie season for the Vikings.

Micah Parsons had 6.5 sacks in his entire college career.

A reasonable floor for a 1st round edge player is believing they can be an 8-10 sack player regardless of their college production.
I mean, one is an NFL player and the other isn't yet, so it is inarguable that you are wrong in this statement :)

I will also quibble with your reasonable floor comment for a 1st-round edge player. It is hoped and believed, but it is not factual. His floor could easily be Zaven Collins.
 

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