Frank Vogel Defense

Yuma

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This firing is like Thanos, it's inevitable.

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I'm not starting poo, but when I see Thanos, I think, what if Thanos could snap the Suns back to pre KD trade? Would you cheer or boo Thanos? :) It's meant as a fun question. Possibly just rhetorical.
 

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I'm not starting poo, but when I see Thanos, I think, what if Thanos could snap the Suns back to pre KD trade? Would you cheer or boo Thanos? :) It's meant as a fun question. Possibly just rhetorical.

If we had it over again I tell the Nets we’re keeping Cam but you can still have Mikal, fillers and all the picks. Take it or leave it.
 
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If we had it over again I tell the Nets we’re keeping Cam but you can still have Mikal, fillers and all the picks. Take it or leave it.

Or take out like two picks / swaps out of the deal
 

Raindog

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Well, if we are fantasizing about going back in time, there's no way in hell I would have hired Vogel, either.
 

Covert Rain

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Well, why not aim high? Go back and convince Jerry to either not sell or sell to someone other than Sarver?
I love Jerry but he was never going to be able to spend like Ishbia. We were destined to be a conservative spending team as long as Jerry or Sarver owned the team. At least with Ishbia, money issues are off the table of excuses. Now it's all about the front office and coaching staff.
 

Phrazbit

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I love Jerry but he was never going to be able to spend like Ishbia. We were destined to be a conservative spending team as long as Jerry or Sarver owned the team. At least with Ishbia, money issues are off the table of excuses. Now it's all about the front office and coaching staff.

The Suns were routinely in the top 10 in payroll under Jerry and that was with a smaller market share and back when teams could actually lose money, now the NBA is virtually risk free from the ownership stand point. The timing of Colangelo leaving was very unfortunate... it was right before the league's revenue exploded and he sold the team to a dude who turner out to be a miser. I think the Suns payroll would have soared as the league's revenue went through the roof.

But having unending wealth doesn't matter if the owner is hands on (which Ishbia certainly is) and makes bad decisions. The jury is out on if Ishbia's meddling is a good or bad thing but the forcast is gloomy.
 

Covert Rain

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The Suns were routinely in the top 10 in payroll under Jerry and that was with a smaller market share and back when teams could actually lose money, now the NBA is virtually risk free from the ownership stand point. The timing of Colangelo leaving was very unfortunate... it was right before the league's revenue exploded and he sold the team to a dude who turner out to be a miser. I think the Suns payroll would have soared as the league's revenue went through the roof.

But having unending wealth doesn't matter if the owner is hands on (which Ishbia certainly is) and makes bad decisions. The jury is out on if Ishbia's meddling is a good or bad thing but the forcast is gloomy.
Jerry had his limits and his spending was more dependent on revenue. You are talking comparing a millionaire to a billionaire. Jerry had plenty of years of bad decisions and that has nothing to do with money either. I am just saying that is one excuse off the table.
 

Phrazbit

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Jerry had his limits and his spending was more dependent on revenue. You are talking comparing a millionaire to a billionaire. Jerry had plenty of years of bad decisions and that has nothing to do with money either. I am just saying that is one excuse off the table.

We had a top 5 record in the league during Jerry's ownership, by in large, he made very good decisions.

And I agree, Jerry's spending was more dependent on revenue, but when he owned the team when the league's revenue was far shakier (and Phoenix was a smaller market). I have little doubt that the Suns spending would have exploded right along with the league's massive increase in revenue that came in the late 2000s and has kept surging since.

Jerry was not afraid to operate at a loss and the league has basically made it impossible for owners to lose money at this point.
 

Covert Rain

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We had a top 5 record in the league during Jerry's ownership, by in large, he made very good decisions.

And I agree, Jerry's spending was more dependent on revenue, but when he owned the team when the league's revenue was far shakier (and Phoenix was a smaller market). I have little doubt that the Suns spending would have exploded right along with the league's massive increase in revenue that came in the late 2000s and has kept surging since.

Jerry was not afraid to operate at a loss and the league has basically made it impossible for owners to lose money at this point.
The reason America West Arena was built is because they were not generating enough revenue. Jerry likely could operate at a loss but not for very long. Ishbia doesn't have that problem.
 

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The reason America West Arena was built is because they were not generating enough revenue. Jerry likely could operate at a loss but not for very long. Ishbia doesn't have that problem.

Yeah, that was way back in the early 90s, the Madhouse was hopelessly outdated, even for the time.

However, for the last 15 years or so the NBA has been raking in money hand over fist. It's almost impossible to lose money, Sarver, the miser, turned a 1100% profit just on his ownership stake, lord knows how much he was stuffing in his pockets year to year.

With the type of revenue the league hauls in now, I don't think money would have been much of a roadblock for Jerry.

If Jerry hadn't sold, Nash would probably have won a couple rings. Joe Johnson probably doesn't leave, we don't sell picks...

Siiiiiiigh

What really sucks is that he only sold to help deal with all the debt the Diamondbacks were carrying from their WS roster... then the Dbacks board goes and gives him the boot anyway not even a year later. Both franchises got saddled with horrible ownership as a result.
 

Covert Rain

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Yeah, that was way back in the early 90s, the Madhouse was hopelessly outdated, even for the time.

However, for the last 15 years or so the NBA has been raking in money hand over fist. It's almost impossible to lose money, Sarver, the miser, turned a 1100% profit just on his ownership stake, lord knows how much he was stuffing in his pockets year to year.

With the type of revenue the league hauls in now, I don't think money would have been much of a roadblock for Jerry.

If Jerry hadn't sold, Nash would probably have won a couple rings. Joe Johnson probably doesn't leave, we don't sell picks...

Siiiiiiigh

What really sucks is that he only sold to help deal with all the debt the Diamondbacks were carrying from their WS roster... then the Dbacks board goes and gives him the boot anyway not even a year later. Both franchises got saddled with horrible ownership as a result.
It's typically all the others in the ownership group as Jerry found out you have to worry about.
 

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Yeah, that was way back in the early 90s, the Madhouse was hopelessly outdated, even for the time.

However, for the last 15 years or so the NBA has been raking in money hand over fist. It's almost impossible to lose money, Sarver, the miser, turned a 1100% profit just on his ownership stake, lord knows how much he was stuffing in his pockets year to year.

With the type of revenue the league hauls in now, I don't think money would have been much of a roadblock for Jerry.

If Jerry hadn't sold, Nash would probably have won a couple rings. Joe Johnson probably doesn't leave, we don't sell picks...

Siiiiiiigh

What really sucks is that he only sold to help deal with all the debt the Diamondbacks were carrying from their WS roster... then the Dbacks board goes and gives him the boot anyway not even a year later. Both franchises got saddled with horrible ownership as a result.

Can’t believe that eyesore is still standing. Random question but was that McDowell/Grand area always nasty or was it nicer back in the day?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well, why not aim high? Go back and convince Jerry to either not sell or sell to someone other than Sarver?
Hell I’d go back and switch the coin to double heads or tails, whichever the suns called to lose Lew Alcindor.

And kill hitler

And buy gobs of apple stock at its lowest valuation.
 

95pro

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we scored 129pts and still got blown the funk out

its almost hard to fathom - how bad you have to be at defense to accomplish something like that

We got it to 5 I think, then hero Book showed up and decided to jack up a 3 in the corner irrc, missed, then the wheels fell off, again.
 

Covert Rain

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We got it to 5 I think, then hero Book showed up and decided to jack up a 3 in the corner irrc, missed, then the wheels fell off, again.
That was only part of it. We didn't get any stops and let another team drop 20 something threes.
 

clyde2tw

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We got it to 5 I think, then hero Book showed up and decided to jack up a 3 in the corner irrc, missed, then the wheels fell off, again.
Booker missed several shots consecutively in that time span. It's as if they have the mindset that every shot a superstar could get off in the 4th is a good shot, and they don't bother to consider alternatives anymore. The problem with this season's Suns is, KD and Book's 4th qrt shooting has been bad with few exceptions. Not sure it's due to defense or lack of offensive sets or decline of athletic ability.
 

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Booker missed several shots consecutively in that time span. It's as if they have the mindset that every shot a superstar could get off in the 4th is a good shot, and they don't bother to consider alternatives anymore. The problem with this season's Suns is, KD and Book's 4th qrt shooting has been bad with few exceptions. Not sure it's due to defense or lack of offensive sets or decline of athletic ability.

Book continues to be a below average 3pt shooter for his position this season and for his career. The way the game is in 2024 that’s just not acceptable.
 

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Book continues to be a below average 3pt shooter for his position this season and for his career. The way the game is in 2024 that’s just not acceptable.
He’s around 36% for his career so maybe a touch below for what we’d like to see. I’ve always said I think his arc on his shot needs to improve from further out.

He focuses a lot on midrange shots and is elite at that area but the threes come and go. He’s on a 3/25 stretch right now, otherwise he’d be around 37-38%.
 

95pro

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Booker missed several shots consecutively in that time span. It's as if they have the mindset that every shot a superstar could get off in the 4th is a good shot, and they don't bother to consider alternatives anymore. The problem with this season's Suns is, KD and Book's 4th qrt shooting has been bad with few exceptions. Not sure it's due to defense or lack of offensive sets or decline of athletic ability.

I hate to bash Book, but that was just dumb, I believe it was two consecutive he missed on but just in the flow of the game they just were not the right shots.
 

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I hate to bash Book, but that was just dumb, I believe it was two consecutive he missed on but just in the flow of the game they just were not the right shots.
Why, he isn't doing his job.
 

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