Frank Vogel Defense

Chaplin

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This Phoenix Suns team has been confusing at best. They are above average in almost every advanced metric (excepting 4th quarters, of course), but yet the eye test doesn't support those metrics -- both at a team and individual player level. KD is a major example of it.
 

1982baskets

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Its puzzling a bit maybe due to our expectations because we want this team to be an overall top 4 team record wise, because that's where contenders are ranked. But the reality is that we are middle of the pack in the western conference, top 10 on offense and almost mid on defense. Our eye test tells us the defense is much worse than the overall rank of 12/30.
Possibly it's the injuries and new team. However the schemes are good. There's a few things one can complain about Vogel on. Defense isn't one of them. At the start of the year, most experts analysis was that if the Suns even get close to average top 15 defense, Frank has done his job. Why? This is not a very talented defensive team.

Yet, the team is better than that even. Here's the main missing ingredients.

Health of Beal/Booker. One is always almost always out.
Fourth Q execution.
Not elite (for the season) on offense.

A lot of our problems are due to injury to Beal/Booker. We've never been able to establish a flow with who has the ball, who has the PG duties (primary) and how the offense can run. I don't feel it's fair to blame Vogel, when we've had something like 20 games with Booker and Beal (with KD).
 

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The current situation with the Suns is a combination of several unfavorable events that played out over the season.

1. Vogel is supposed to be the def. minded coach but our new guys were below expectation defenders, from the 4 guys we shipped out before deadline, to Little and Bol and even Allen early in the season. Yet, he had to try out them with lots of court time to figur out that affected our defense and thus record, while our best perimeter defenders Okogie and Saben saw their play time sacrificed to accommodate it. They gradually learn to improve as a team, RO's entry was a huge boost, Saben got time, Allen and Bol improved greatly over time, Eubanks became more stable, even Booker occationally got the right covering position. So, the measured improvement follows Vogel's reputation more closely now.

2. On offense, they had to start with star iso's with so many newcomers, none of whom could reliably create for the team. Too much standing around watching ISOs also make players lethargic and lazy on D. And we also experimented with infamous labels like Book for PG etc. Again with RO's entry, discovery of Beal's, Allen's and to a lesser extent Saben's ability to handle the ball, and Bol's improvement, and Nurk's improved chemistry with particularly KD, we now are in position to minimize KD and Book isos, and to find out our true off. identity in the remaining 19 regular season games, assuming Book wouldn't ruin it upon his return.

All in all, there has been a lot of needed errors and trials over the season, we ought not only focus on the accumulated results of errors but not the improvement, in this sense, Go Suns!
 

Hoop Head

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This firing is like Thanos, it's inevitable.

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I tried to get AI to make a pic of this and they made this, which is described as the Phoenix Suns choking. I think it could be the Heat Chickens logo.

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Chris_Sanders

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That thing looks like it did a pregame energy drink / cocaine shot
 

Phrazbit

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lol i resent that

#21 not do it for you?

I know it's been a while since #21 was worn by a good Suns player but... Richard Dumas wore it, and if anyone exemplifies drug use and Suns it's...

Wait...

No...

We had that whole scandal in the 80s that almost destroyed the franchise and no one talks about it.

Nevermind.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I tried to get AI to make a pic of this and they made this, which is described as the Phoenix Suns choking. I think it could be the Heat Chickens logo.

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That’s it. It’s 100% a heat chicken!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I tried to get AI to make a pic of this and they made this, which is described as the Phoenix Suns choking. I think it could be the Heat Chickens logo.

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I think we just need the beak a tad bit smaller.
 

Hoop Head

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not even if we go back to back - and i have a lot of tattoos lol

If we win a championship then I say we hold you down and give you a Heat Chicken tattoo. My brother in law is a tattoo artist. I'll just need a couple ASFN'ers to help hold you down. Maybe get some of what @mjb21aztd is smoking and we won't need to hold you down.
 

Joe Mama

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If we win a championship then I say we hold you down and give you a Heat Chicken tattoo. My brother in law is a tattoo artist. I'll just need a couple ASFN'ers to help hold you down. Maybe get some of what @mjb21aztd is smoking and we won't need to hold you down.
If you hold him for a minute I can pin him down with my wheelchair
 

Muggz

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If we have to get a new coach I think this guy is the kind of locker room coach we need.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Joe Mama

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I'll be surprised if Frank Vogel is not the coach of the Phoenix Suns January 1, 2025.
 

1982baskets

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The Suns are top 10 in both offense and defense. This was a roster built by Jones, without a point guard and there has been something like 20 games with Beal/Book/KD. No identity as to who is the point guard has been established.

Late in games, you need that identity. It's why we suck in the fourth. We neither have a point guard/leader nor do we have enough reps with the big 3 to establish one.

The one positive trend I have seen is the team seems to stick together and is buying in on the defensive end. How long that lasts beyond this year, I don't know. But a coach can only do that. There's nothing a coach can do to make players less injured, or create a situation a GM made where there isn't a point guard to lead the team.
 

Yuma

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After watching Booker get smoked on defense I started focusing just on him. In the game thread I said I watched multiple possessions and Booker is like 8 feet off his dude guarding no one. The entire weak side sags way off while they play a man switch at the point.

It's terrible defense. It will get destroyed on every kick out because you are relying on Booker to cover the switch penetration and yet somehow guard the perimeter.
We have played this way under Monty too. It's been this way in the NBA for a while now. I figure it must be to narrow the path to the lane for a driver if they pass goes around the horn from the strong side to a guy up top. In theory, a guy could still run out to the three point shooter. The down side, is teams, like us will put their best three point shooter like Grayson Allen on the weak side, and that guy playing off, just can't stop the pass to that shooter. I am old school, if you have a guy torching you from out there, stick a guy on him and don't worry about the lane. But I am not an NBA coach.
 

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