Frank Vogel Defense

Chris_Sanders

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After watching Booker get smoked on defense I started focusing just on him. In the game thread I said I watched multiple possessions and Booker is like 8 feet off his dude guarding no one. The entire weak side sags way off while they play a man switch at the point.

It's terrible defense. It will get destroyed on every kick out because you are relying on Booker to cover the switch penetration and yet somehow guard the perimeter.
 

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Chris_Sanders

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Literally everyone is staring at the ball handler waiting to react instead of owning their guy. Just seeing it any decent PG will wreck this. You have open cuts, kicks, and you can pick your switch.
 
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Chris_Sanders

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And just so we know it's not Booker or these guys. Here is the defense after Booker gets hurt. It's a mirror
 

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Chris_Sanders

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Here is after the PG commits.
 

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Chris_Sanders

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Look at how open KDs man is...he is nearly committing a 3 second violation he is so far from his guy
 
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Chris_Sanders

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This was the exact same defense for the entire 2nd half. Zero adjustments. I could just keep rewinding and see it over and over.
 

Chaplin

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I don’t see much difference between this defense and last year’s. That’s a problem.
 
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Chris_Sanders

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I don’t see much difference between this defense and last year’s. That’s a problem.

Last year you didn't have the 2 guarding no one on any set possession. I mean maybe it is because Ayton could cover the screener and Nurk and Eubanks can't but that hasn't held up in Portland.

I was going to light up Booker for how bad it is until I saw the same look every time he was out.

The crazy thing is all the staring at the ball handler. You saw multiple back cuts tonight and that is why.
 

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We are now 75% into the season. This is who they are. No one is coming to save them. Does Vogel survive beyond 1 year?
 
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Chris_Sanders

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This image right here is high school offense and it is just one of the choices the PG can make. Allen is flat footed and watching the ball handler instead of his man. His man dives to the rim and KD MUST commit or give up a layup.

A simple drop to the wide open corner and there is no way Booker can get there in time.
 
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Chris_Sanders

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We are now 75% into the season. This is who they are. No one is coming to save them. Does Vogel survive beyond 1 year?

No chance unless he wins at least 1 series. Maybe 2.

But how will they when you look at their base defense?
 

Cheesebeef

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We are now 75% into the season. This is who they are. No one is coming to save them. Does Vogel survive beyond 1 year?
I don’t think he should. There’s enough talent on this team to have SOME kind of identity. There is literally none. Nunca. Never.

We’re just an odd mismash of a team that doesn’t consistently play hard.
 

Covert Rain

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I don’t know why we are singling out Booker. The team is worse. I have been saying it all season that Vogel has done nothing for this team defensively and we are worse this year. His offense is garbage.

I see no reason to keep Vogel at this point.
 

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We are cooked already and the folks on the ground probably already know it.
 

AzStevenCal

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I don’t know why we are singling out Booker. The team is worse. I have been saying it all season that Vogel has done nothing for this team defensively and we are worse this year. His offense is garbage.

I see no reason to keep Vogel at this point.
I don't know who to single out, I don't know who to fire. Maybe it's all or mostly on Vogel but firing a just hired championship coach on the heels of firing a well-respected COY just months before is not a good look. I'd still fire him if they are confident he's the problem but considering how disappointing this team has been at times since the title loss, I am not convinced the problem will be solved by a head coaching change.
 

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I don't know who to single out, I don't know who to fire. Maybe it's all or mostly on Vogel but firing a just hired championship coach on the heels of firing a well-respected COY just months before is not a good look. I'd still fire him if they are confident he's the problem but considering how disappointing this team has been at times since the title loss, I am not convinced the problem will be solved by a head coaching change.
Based on the KD trade, do you think the “look” is something Ishbia cares about?

You have to start somewhere and the fact of the matter is that coaching is one of our problems. And funny enough it’s one of the only things we can try to address in the offseason.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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After a 1st round exit... Vogel is as good as gone, and rightfully so. He can take Kevin Young with him too. The offense reminds me of looking at Hops route tree under KK... just 0 imagination and 0 adjustments. Absolutely unacceptable, especially with the 3rd highest payroll in the NBA.
 

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hear me out

ish is one smart self made billionaire monucka

do we not think he has a contingency plan should vogel fail as mogul?

what do have to lose? more games? our standing?

im a don't fire the coach during the season kinda guy but come on man - when you play chess you think several steps ahead and utilize what you have left on the board - vogel doesn't strike me as a chess player - he tries to build off what's worked for him in the past negating the current circumstances

i don't think we're winning a chip this year - not ruling it out completely but that's probably just the bong rips speaking
 
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Chris_Sanders

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He should be absolutely fired tomorrow and anything else is a delay of the inevitable
 

Hoop Head

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I don’t know why we are singling out Booker. The team is worse. I have been saying it all season that Vogel has done nothing for this team defensively and we are worse this year. His offense is garbage.

I see no reason to keep Vogel at this point.

I don't think Chris is blaming Booker so much as highlighting an issue with the defense using Booker's positioning to paint the picture. You see it regularly with Booker or whoever is at PG. You also see it with Nurkic how he's glued to the baseline as a rim protector, leaving corner shooters open as well as guys on the wings because it's like he's instructed to stay behind the FT line no matter what.

What happens though is teams will bring a lot of players to one side of the court and our guys get out of position because they're all ball watching and a cross court pass almost always results in 3 points, or at least a clean look.
 
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Chris_Sanders

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I don't think Chris is blaming Booker so much as highlighting an issue with the defense using Booker's positioning to paint the picture. You see it regularly with Booker or whoever is at PG. You also see it with Nurkic how he's glued to the baseline as a rim protector, leaving corner shooters open as well as guys on the wings because it's like he's instructed to stay behind the FT line no matter what.

What happens though is teams will bring a lot of players to one side of the court and our guys get out of position because they're all ball watching and a cross court pass almost always results in 3 points, or at least a clean look.

I considered Booker to be a + defender two years ago and now he isn't.

With so much turnover I have next to nothing to do a before an after picture of
 

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The team has been one of the best teams on defense in the last 2 months. If you look at the advanced numbers. Overall for the season, the team is 12/30. That puts us a little above average.

When you look at our team with players like Booker, Beal, KD, Grayson, Gordon. None of those players have ever been on all defensive team or been known as an elite defender. Despite that, we're more than competent defensively.

The job we did on the Nuggets was quite good. That too with Nurk in foul trouble. Royce is an important piece.

I think fans simply don't understand how tough Vogel's job has been this year with the injuries. The team has not played enough games with each other, when having their best players. Despite that, they're in the playoffs as of today. That's not easy in the West.

Look at teams like Sacramento, Dallas, Lakers, Warriors, even Pelicans. These are stacked teams. It's not like we're in a situation where there are a lot of bad teams. We are a top heavy roster. Vogel inherited a 45 win team, who made themselevs extremely top heavy, reliant on Beal/Book/KD. Well, Book/Beal/KD have played what 20 games together? If that.
 

95pro

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The team has been one of the best teams on defense in the last 2 months. If you look at the advanced numbers. Overall for the season, the team is 12/30. That puts us a little above average.

When you look at our team with players like Booker, Beal, KD, Grayson, Gordon. None of those players have ever been on all defensive team or been known as an elite defender. Despite that, we're more than competent defensively.

The job we did on the Nuggets was quite good. That too with Nurk in foul trouble. Royce is an important piece.

I think fans simply don't understand how tough Vogel's job has been this year with the injuries. The team has not played enough games with each other, when having their best players. Despite that, they're in the playoffs as of today. That's not easy in the West.

Look at teams like Sacramento, Dallas, Lakers, Warriors, even Pelicans. These are stacked teams. It's not like we're in a situation where there are a lot of bad teams. We are a top heavy roster. Vogel inherited a 45 win team, who made themselevs extremely top heavy, reliant on Beal/Book/KD. Well, Book/Beal/KD have played what 20 games together? If that.

Its puzzling a bit maybe due to our expectations because we want this team to be an overall top 4 team record wise, because that's where contenders are ranked. But the reality is that we are middle of the pack in the western conference, top 10 on offense and almost mid on defense. Our eye test tells us the defense is much worse than the overall rank of 12/30.
 

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