Five year draft ratings

[football karma]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8068700/Five-year-draft-rankings:-Teams-9-16


10. Arizona Cardinals
Current roster: 19 of 33 (14 starters). The Cardinals did suffer two significant free-agent losses last month when 2003 first-round picks Calvin Pace (New York Jets) and Bryant Johnson (San Francisco) signed elsewhere.

Best pick: Larry Fitzgerald has met all expectations as the No. 3 overall pick of the 2004 draft, but such success has proven costly. Because he reached contract incentives, Fitzgerald's salary cap number ballooned to roughly $16 million entering the off-season. Fitzgerald ultimately signed an extension that lowered his cap number but not before the Cardinals missed out on several potential free-agent signings.

Biggest mistake: Linebacker Buster Davis is aptly named, as the 2007 third-round draft choice was waived in the preseason.

Front office: Rod Graves has done a solid job since replacing Bob Ferguson as general manager in 2004. But there is a strong chance that three of Graves' highest selections — quarterback Matt Leinart (2006/first round), safety Antrel Rolle (2005/first) and running back J.J. Arrington (2005/second) — will open the season as backups.

Comment: Arizona leads the NFL in starters produced through the draft over the past five seasons. If team owner Bill Bidwill spent more in free agency to augment solid drafts, the Cardinals wouldn't have a nine-season playoff drought.



the bolded section absolutely stuns me

 

[DaisyCutter]

Two factors play into that, EF. One is that Graves gutted the roster six years ago. The Cards had to draft starters at almost every position. When you have established veterans at positions around the team, guys who have been playing for 7 or 8 seasons, then that number is going to go down. Most teams have a player or two who is a position player and has been on the team for a decade or so.

The second thing is that most of the Cards FA moves (Holt, Clancy, Brown, etc.) haven't worked out. We wouldn't have a starting draft pick at RT if Oliver Ross hadn't been such a collossal failure.

If the Cards start winning more games than they lose, and keeping around veterans for their third contracts, that number will go down, but the team will be better.

EDIT: The shot about the Cards not spending money is totally unfair and unnecessary. Bidwill has spent the money, it just wasn't spent very wisely by his general manager.

 

[40yearfan]

Two factors play into that, EF. One is that Graves gutted the roster six years ago. The Cards had to draft starters at almost every position. When you have established veterans at positions around the team, guys who have been playing for 7 or 8 seasons, then that number is going to go down. Most teams have a player or two who is a position player and has been on the team for a decade or so.

The second thing is that most of the Cards FA moves (Holt, Clancy, Brown, etc.) haven't worked out. We wouldn't have a starting draft pick at RT if Oliver Ross hadn't been such a collossal failure.

If the Cards start winning more games than they lose, and keeping around veterans for their third contracts, that number will go down, but the team will be better.

EDIT: The shot about the Cards not spending money is totally unfair and unnecessary. Bidwill has spent the money, it just wasn't spent very wisely by his general manager.

DC, I don't think Graves was in charge 6 years ago. As I remember, he took over his present duties when Dennis Green was hired and that was in 2004. Are you talking about 2002 or 2004?

 

[Skkorpion]

There is another factor too. Rod Graves was the first guy allowed to completely remake the scouting department.

Before him, player personnel chiefs were saddled with scouts Bill Sr. was loyal to .

 

[earthsci]

It doesn't matter. Some only want give blame but not credit.

 

[40yearfan]

There is another factor too. Rod Graves was the first guy allowed to completely remake the scouting department.

Before him, player personnel chiefs were saddled with scouts Bill Sr. was loyal to .

Oh my God, do I remember those George Boone days. Talk about a laughing stock.

 

[Skkorpion]

DC, I don't think Graves was in charge 6 years ago. As I remember, he took over his present duties when Dennis Green was hired and that was in 2004. Are you talking about 2002 or 2004?

No that's not correct. Rod Graves was put in charge in time for the two McGinnis years but did not have complete control yet.

Remember the workout waiver fiasco when draft picks would not report without proper insurance against injury? It came to a head the first year Graves was in charge. Rod got that policy changed.

He later told me that was his first major success in changing the way the team operated.

We may be focusing on the wrong place to give credit. In my opinion, Michael Bidwill has been the man who has dragged the Cards up from the abyss.

He has made the whole organization truly professional and focused.

 

[DaisyCutter]

DC, I don't think Graves was in charge 6 years ago. As I remember, he took over his present duties when Dennis Green was hired and that was in 2004. Are you talking about 2002 or 2004?

Your memory is faulty. It happens when you reach your age. Graves was made VP Football Operations in Mac's last season.

Graves gets tons of credit for building a roster that is easily more talented than any since the 1997-98 team. The process of mediocrity was well underway before he took control of the football program. It's likely that the only thing to do was obliterate the roster and essentially start from scratch. The "stars" on that team were Jake Plummer, David Boston, Frank Sanders, and maybe a couple other guys (KVB? Kwame Lassiter?) that were mediocre talents, at best.

It took a long time to get here, and I think we're at a turning point where this team is going to either become competitive in the long term or we're going to have to start over again. If this team is going to re-set the franchise again (presumably with a new GM), next season would be the time to do it.

On defense, Dansby, Green, and Smith will be unrestricted free agents. Gabe Watson will be a restricted free agent. Those are just starters. Berry, Haggans, and maybe Stewart are all going to be FAs.

On offense, Edge would be easily disposable for cap savings. Pope might be a restricted free agent. Mike Gandy would be in the last year of his contract, as well.

It's "show me" time. Not for the second-year HC, but definitely for the General Manager with the record one or two wins better than Matt Millen.

 

[BigShtank]

No that's not correct. Rod Graves was put in charge in time for the two McGinnis years but did not have complete control yet.

Remember the workout waiver fiasco when draft picks would not report without proper insurance against injury? It came to a head the first year Graves was in charge. Rod got that policy changed.

He later told me that was his first major success in changing the way the team operated.

We may be focusing on the wrong place to give credit. In my opinion, Michael Bidwill has been the man who has dragged the Cards up from the abyss.

He has made the whole organization truly professional and focused.

 

[Duckjake]

DC, I don't think Graves was in charge 6 years ago. As I remember, he took over his present duties when Dennis Green was hired and that was in 2004. Are you talking about 2002 or 2004?

Just to refresh your memory:

From the AZ Republic:

January 12, 2003 •• 1752 words •• ID: pho63346128
It is not in Rod Graves' nature to boast or to make grandiose promises that he's just the guy to pull off one of sports' greatest miracles -- turning the Cardinals into a consistent winner. And he's smart enough to know that people wouldn't believe him anyway. So without any great proclamation or mission statement, Graves last week assumed control when he was named the team's vice president for football operations.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Comment: [B]Arizona leads the N...just means someone better is in front of 'em.

 

[Duckjake]

think about it, if your team sucks it's easier for draft picks to become starters. now if there was some way to quantify how many of those "starters" would be starters on other teams, that would be a more telling statistic.

how many draftees have an opp to become a starter on a team like the pats? doesn't mean they're not good, just means someone better is in front of 'em.

The guys we have now though are legit NFL players. That's why most of us are so concerned about the recent contract and salary cap problems. We actually have guys that other teams feel are worth signing to big contracts as free agents.

I could have cared less if Ray Thompson left as a Free Agent. I do care if Karlos Dansby does.

 

[devilfan02]

Comment: Arizona leads the NFL in starters produced through the draft over the past five seasons. If team owner Bill Bidwill spent more in free agency to augment solid drafts, the Cardinals wouldn't have a nine-season playoff drought.



the bolded section absolutely stuns me

Doesn't stun me. We're 28-52 over the past 5 seasons (53.8% win percentage). While we have made some good draft picks, there have been just as many horrendous picks.

 

[NMCard]

Doesn't stun me. We're 28-52 over the past 5 seasons (53.8% win percentage). While we have made some good draft picks, there have been just as many horrendous picks.

I wonder how much a part Green played in the good drafts in that time frame?

 

[DaisyCutter]

Doesn't stun me. We're 28-52 over the past 5 seasons (53.8% win percentage). While we have made some good draft picks, there have been just as many horrendous picks.

Um... I don't think the math works out there...

 

[Capital Card]

Um... I don't think the math works out there...

I think you just diagnosed the problem....they think we've already been winners.



Go Cards!!!

 

[40yearfan]

No that's not correct. Rod Graves was put in charge in time for the two McGinnis years but did not have complete control yet.

Remember the workout waiver fiasco when draft picks would not report without proper insurance against injury? It came to a head the first year Graves was in charge. Rod got that policy changed.

He later told me that was his first major success in changing the way the team operated.

We may be focusing on the wrong place to give credit. In my opinion, Michael Bidwill has been the man who has dragged the Cards up from the abyss.

He has made the whole organization truly professional and focused.

Your memory is faulty. It happens when you reach your age. Graves was made VP Football Operations in Mac's last season.

Graves gets tons of credit for building a roster that is easily more talented than any since the 1997-98 team. The process of mediocrity was well underway before he took control of the football program. It's likely that the only thing to do was obliterate the roster and essentially start from scratch. The "stars" on that team were Jake Plummer, David Boston, Frank Sanders, and maybe a couple other guys (KVB? Kwame Lassiter?) that were mediocre talents, at best.

It took a long time to get here, and I think we're at a turning point where this team is going to either become competitive in the long term or we're going to have to start over again. If this team is going to re-set the franchise again (presumably with a new GM), next season would be the time to do it.

On defense, Dansby, Green, and Smith will be unrestricted free agents. Gabe Watson will be a restricted free agent. Those are just starters. Berry, Haggans, and maybe Stewart are all going to be FAs.

On offense, Edge would be easily disposable for cap savings. Pope might be a restricted free agent. Mike Gandy would be in the last year of his contract, as well.

It's "show me" time. Not for the second-year HC, but definitely for the General Manager with the record one or two wins better than Matt Millen.

Just to refresh your memory:

From the AZ Republic:

January 12, 2003 •• 1752 words •• ID: pho63346128
It is not in Rod Graves' nature to boast or to make grandiose promises that he's just the guy to pull off one of sports' greatest miracles -- turning the Cardinals into a consistent winner. And he's smart enough to know that people wouldn't believe him anyway. So without any great proclamation or mission statement, Graves last week assumed control when he was named the team's vice president for football operations.

Looks like the only one who agrees with me was the article we are all talking about:

Front office: Rod Graves has done a solid job since replacing Bob Ferguson as general manager in 2004. But there is a strong chance that three of Graves' highest selections — quarterback Matt Leinart (2006/first round), safety Antrel Rolle (2005/first) and running back J.J. Arrington (2005/second) — will open the season as backups.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Looks like the only one who agrees with me was the article we are all talking about:

I don't know what to tell you, 40. You can believe some CNNSI article. Or you can believe the local paper link that DJ posted. Or you can believe the memories of a bunch of longtime Cardinal fans. Or you can believe what the Arizona Cardinals actually say on their website:

http://www.azcardinals.com/team/staff_detail.php?PRKey=23

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Rod Graves begins his 10th season with the Cardinals and his 23rd season in the National Football League. Graves joined the Cardinals in June of 1997 as Assistant to the President. He was promoted to the position of Vice President of Football Operations following the 2002 season.

Graves, 47, is responsible for all facets of the Cardinals’ football operations. He has provided leadership in hiring, planning, budgeting, player acquisitions, negotiations, and scouting. He has represented the Cardinals on a number of NFL committees. He currently serves on the board of directors of National Football Scouting, Inc. and National Invitational Camp, Inc. (Indy Combine).

Consistent with the Cardinals efforts to become champions in the community, Rod and his wife Dreama, devote their time and resources to supporting Cardinals Charities, The United Way, and The American Diabetes Association.

A native of Houston, Texas, Rod began his career in professional football in 1982 as a regional scout for the Philadelphia Stars of the United States Football League. He joined the National Football League in 1984 as a regional scout for the Chicago Bears, a position he held until promoted to director of college scouting in 1993. He was promoted in 1994 to director of player personnel.

Rod is a graduate of Texas Tech University. He is also the son of the late Jackie Graves, former player personnel executive of the Philadelphia Eagles.

Rod and Dreama reside in Phoenix with their three children: daughters, Brittany & Taylor and son Joshua.[/FONT]

 

[40yearfan]

I don't know what to tell you, 40. You can believe some CNNSI article. Or you can believe the local paper link that DJ posted. Or you can believe the memories of a bunch of longtime Cardinal fans. Or you can believe what the Arizona Cardinals actually say on their website:

http://www.azcardinals.com/team/staff_detail.php?PRKey=23

As I remember it, he got the promotion but didn't get the actual job until DG was hired. That was the same time Mike Bidwill became active in this organization. I'm going on recollection of the events that happened at that time and I seem to remember Graves not having the final say so on any draft before DG was involved.

Maybe Jim O. can chime in on here and give us the real scoop.

 

[CardsFan88]

Well if we didn't spend 20 percent of our cap year in and year out on rookies, we'd have that extra 10 percent for veterans

Some teams can pick lower and get the same quality. Even if they don't get the same quality they still can have extra cap room to pick up (or try to pick up) some decent veterans, and there wouldn't be a stigma of giving up on a guy who you gave a 30-50 mill contract with 15-30 mill in guarantees

It's cool to know we've done good in the lower rounds. Probably the reason why we even though we have spent 20 percent of our cap on just the 1st round picks in the past, it hasn't completely buried us since we got good value later on....and thus we see our team more stocked than it has been in years imo.

Now if we can just stay say pick 16th and lower over the next few years and get the same or better talent...in a couple of years that should open up a chunk of change to also add veterans, or definitely resign our own.

Time for the scouts to earn their money by picking right on the 1st rounders.

 

[Duckjake]

As I remember it, he got the promotion but didn't get the actual job until DG was hired. That was the same time Mike Bidwill became active in this organization. I'm going on recollection of the events that happened at that time and I seem to remember Graves not having the final say so on any draft before DG was involved.

Maybe Jim O. can chime in on here and give us the real scoop.

Actually going by my recollection of events Graves got the promotion but didn't get the job until after Denny Green was fired.

Maybe Michael Bidwill can come on here and give us the real scoop.

 

[football karma]

Actually going by my recollection of events Graves got the promotion but didn't get the job until after Denny Green was fired.

Maybe Michael Bidwill can come on here and give us the real scoop.

this has been often discussed

regardless of the Cardinal website says, there is no bright line on when Graves didnt have authority and when he got it.

One of the issues with the Cards under Bill Sr was that authority as implied by the organization chart was very, very different from authority as recognized by Bill Sr.

Graves authority kinda tracks in parallel Michael's ascention to being in charge.

Where it gets hazy is when they went and hired Denny. Graves has a very low key personality and ego -- Denny obviously the opposite. Graves willingly let Denny be the front man. We all assumed that if it was Denny talking about the draft, it was Denny deciding about the draft. I have no idea what the real dynamic was.

 

[Duckjake]

this has been often discussed

regardless of the Cardinal website says, there is no bright line on when Graves didnt have authority and when he got it.

One of the issues with the Cards under Bill Sr was that authority as implied by the organization chart was very, very different from authority as recognized by Bill Sr.

Graves authority kinda tracks in parallel Michael's ascention to being in charge.

Where it gets hazy is when they went and hired Denny. Graves has a very low key personality and ego -- Denny obviously the opposite. Graves willingly let Denny be the front man. We all assumed that if it was Denny talking about the draft, it was Denny deciding about the draft. I have no idea what the real dynamic was.

Denny wasn't around in 2003 when the franchise made a huge change in the roster. Plummer, Boston, TJones, FSanders, MJenkins and others all left. No coach in his right mind would do that so that leaves only 3 people Bill Sr., Michael B, or Rod Graves.

Saying Rod Graves gutted the roster is an accurate statement imo because he was the Bidwill's #1 guy. It is also my opinion that it was not a negative. The team needed to go in another direction. The few real talents on the team had attitude problems or were getting old and the rest of the roster was sorely lacking in NFL quality players.

The mistake the team made was not sending McGinnis packing along with the players. If you are going to totally rebuild you need to do it with a new coach not a guy who has been with the team for 7 years.