Face Off

[RedViper]

Who will have the first draft pick and who will they take?
Pete Prisco Clark Judge

My pick is the Lions. They have one victory so far, and interestingly enough they play the two other one-win teams. They play at Arizona on Nov. 19, and then play host to Miami on Thanksgiving in a game the league must love having in that marquee spot. The Lions aren't as good as the Dolphins, even if they have the same record, but the home team usually wins matchups of bad teams. Of the seven other remaining games, the Lions have two against teams with losing records. One of those (San Francisco) is at home and the other (Green Bay) is on the road. Let's say they split the four games against the teams with losing records. That gives them three wins on the season. So it may come down to the Lions at the Cardinals. And with the Cardinals at home, they take it. So the Lions will get the first overall pick. And with it, Matt Millen can take Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson -- if Millen still has his job. I mean, after all, it wouldn't be shocking to see Millen take another receiver, would it? No, the Lions would really take Brady Quinn, the franchise QB they need.

I nominate the Arizona Cardinals. They have a rookie quarterback, a coach waiting to be fired and an inability to do anything on the road. That's a bad combination. I see two potential wins out there -- the Nov. 19 game against Detroit and the Dec. 24 date with San Francisco. The 49ers game is in San Francisco, and while the Cards won there last year you can't ignore this: They're 3-17 on the road under Dennis Green. Uh-oh. So they'll be right there for the first pick. The question is: Whom do they take? Well, it's safe to rule out Brady Quinn and another wide receiver. What the Cards need most are offensive linemen. A guard. A tackle. I don't care. Someone to open holes for Edgerrin James and protect Matt Leinart. Someone like ... the University of Wisconsin's Joe Thomas. The left tackle is huge. He's aggressive. He's smart. And he's tough. The only downside here is a post-operative right knee, but that shouldn't be a big deal. He has the athletic ability to handle pass rushers at the next level. Besides, it's time to take care of two of your biggest investments.

If things do deteriorate to this point, I hope we just take the tackle. Nothing fancy. Just start working on the damn line. The line has been horrifying forever. I'm to the point where I don't care if we can't do anything else right so long as we can build an offensive line. I don't care if we have to start from scratch.

 

[CardNots]

Yeah, we had a lot of success building the line throught the draft or FA. Before we pick another offensive lineman in the draft or obtain another high priced FA OL I would like to see the ability to formulate a plan and evaluated the pieces for plugging them in.

Just saying we want a quarter pounder with cheese doesn't cut it anymore...

 

[English on tour]

Yeah, we had a lot of success building the line throught the draft or FA. Before we pick another offensive lineman in the draft or obtain another high priced FA OL I would like to see the ability to formulate a plan and evaluated the pieces for plugging them in.

Just saying we want a quarter pounder with cheese doesn't cut it anymore...

its obvious that has worked for Denny in the past though....

 

[Duckjake]

The left tackle is huge

Aren't people already critical of our offensive line for being too big? We've already got a huge left tackle and teams just line up wide and run around him and we haven't figured out how to stop it.

PS: The line up wide and race to the passer works on the other side of our line as well.

 

[CardNots]

its obvious that has worked for Denny in the past though....

 

[Russ Smith]

Aren't people already critical of our offensive line for being too big? We've already got a huge left tackle and teams just line up wide and run around him and we haven't figured out how to stop it.

PS: The line up wide and race to the passer works on the other side of our line as well.

That's one of my concerns on Thomas he's 6'8" and had knee surgery already. The only guy that immediately comes to mind that tall that has been a really good OL is Ogden, and he's just a sick athlete he was a shotput and discus guy and the coaches at UCLA fought over Ogden for 4 years because the defensive coaches wanted to move him to DL because he was a better athlete than any of their DT's and they thought he could be a star there.

I have read that Thomas is a fabulous athlete and long arms are a big advantage as a LT, the question is how flexible is he, can he get leverage to run block, things like that?

 

[spanky1]

That's one of my concerns on Thomas he's 6'8" and had knee surgery already. The only guy that immediately comes to mind that tall that has been a really good OL is Ogden, and he's just a sick athlete he was a shotput and discus guy and the coaches at UCLA fought over Ogden for 4 years because the defensive coaches wanted to move him to DL because he was a better athlete than any of their DT's and they thought he could be a star there.

I have read that Thomas is a fabulous athlete and long arms are a big advantage as a LT, the question is how flexible is he, can he get leverage to run block, things like that?

Russ,

He's everything and more.....but the knee thing is an issue that has to looked into. If he passes mustard, he'll be a pro bowler for sure.

 

[red desert]

Don't know much about Thomas, but I doubt he has more upside than Adrian Peterson.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,

He's everything and more.....but the knee thing is an issue that has to looked into. If he passes mustard, he'll be a pro bowler for sure.

I have to admit he screams Robert Gallery Deux to me but only because he plays in the big 10 and is a converted TE. I have read he too was a shotput guy in HS, great athlete, had the ACL done and is back playing well. according to scout.com he was 270 as a senior in HS so we're talking 50 pounds gain in college which is NOT all that huge for a guy that tall playing offensive line. Gallery was more like 100 pounds which is why I always suspected he was a big steroid user.

Thomas is definitely intriguing if he's as athletic as they say his height may not be a problem.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Thomas, i'm almost positive, got hurt while playing on the defensive side of the ball in last years bowl game. He's a very good athlete. If he didn't gethurt, he was rumored to be coming out last year and would've been a high pick as well.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thomas, i'm almost positive, got hurt while playing on the defensive side of the ball in last years bowl game. He's a very good athlete. If he didn't gethurt, he was rumored to be coming out last year and would've been a high pick as well.

That's what I read today, got hurt chasing someone while playing defense.

I guess I need to watch Wisconsin more if he's that good of an athlete sounds like he should definitely be high on our list.

 

[Mitch]

If the Cardinals do wind up with the number one pick, IMO, it would behhove them to solve the offensive line needs in free agency so they can take RB Adrian Peterson, who is clearly the number one prospect in the draft, assuming he declares for it.

What about Edge? Well, the Cardinals might want to trade Edge (yes, they would have to eat the signing bonus, but, chances are the Cards could get a pretty good deal for Edge). Or, the team could find a way to play thunder and lightning with EJ and AP.

 

[Russ Smith]

If the Cardinals do wind up with the number one pick, IMO, it would behhove them to solve the offensive line needs in free agency so they can take RB Adrian Peterson, who is clearly the number one prospect in the draft, assuming he declares for it.

What about Edge? Well, the Cardinals might want to trade Edge (yes, they would have to eat the signing bonus, but, chances are the Cards could get a pretty good deal for Edge). Or, the team could find a way to play thunder and lightning with EJ and AP.

I think Edge would be tough to trade at his age with his contract. Rememer the Colts tried and couldn't get a 2nd rounder 2 years ago.

But I agree Peterson is the best prospect in this draft I've seen. I've only seen Calvin Johnson once and he didn't catch a pass so I can't fairly judge him. What I read says he may be an equal prospect to AP. I'd argue WR is not a need area but then you could argue the same at RB. To me Peterson is the rare RB that can actually gain yards with very little room. Last year and this he was seeing 8 and 9 man lines.

I watched an OU game before he got hurt this year that was stunning, everytime the QB faked to Peterson the entire defense sucked in, it was amazing how open the WR's were because of Peterson. I watched them a bit last week, the new RB had a big day but nobody is playing 8 or 9 in the box against them now, and play action is NOWHERE near as effective now.

Peterson is a Dickerson clone, and he greatly improved as a pass catcher this year.

 

[kerouac9]

That's one of my concerns on Thomas he's 6'8" and had knee surgery already. The only guy that immediately comes to mind that tall that has been a really good OL is Ogden, and he's just a sick athlete he was a shotput and discus guy and the coaches at UCLA fought over Ogden for 4 years because the defensive coaches wanted to move him to DL because he was a better athlete than any of their DT's and they thought he could be a star there.

I have read that Thomas is a fabulous athlete and long arms are a big advantage as a LT, the question is how flexible is he, can he get leverage to run block, things like that?

Tony Boselli was 6'7" and really really good through his first contract.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If Thomas can play RT, since that is Matt's blindside now, I am all for it, no matter where we pick (unless we get the #1 pick, we need to trade down if that is the case)

 

[kerouac9]

If Thomas can play RT, since that is Matt's blindside now, I am all for it, no matter where we pick (unless we get the #1 pick, we need to trade down if that is the case)

Imagine asking Andy Roddick to suddenly start playing with his opposite hand. Or asking Tiger Woods to start playing lefty. That's what you'd be doing in asking a Top 5 LT prospect to switch sides after you draft him. Don't mess with what works. He's seeing the best pass rushers coming from the left side anyway.

When people drop the "blindside" label, they betray they ignorance to how the NFL actually works. No one switches tackles when their lefty quarterback comes in.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tony Boselli was 6'7" and really really good through his first contract.

Yes but I don't count USC players unless they play for teh Cards.



It's probably just after watching Anthony Clement for years that I developed a distrust of tall OL's.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Imagine asking Andy Roddick to suddenly start playing with his opposite hand. Or asking Tiger Woods to start playing lefty. That's what you'd be doing in asking a Top 5 LT prospect to switch sides after you draft him. Don't mess with what works. He's seeing the best pass rushers coming from the left side anyway.

When people drop the "blindside" label, they betray they ignorance to how the NFL actually works. No one switches tackles when their lefty quarterback comes in.

K9, you are really stretching here. This is NOTHING like switching hands. I shouldn't have to elaborate here. If you have quick feet and hands, you should be able to play both sides of the ball well. Granted, Thomas would definitely be better starting off at LT, there is nothing to say that he would be a BAD RT.

It is not like asking him to change positions after he has already played in the NFL for years...... but oh wait, that happens too. Some players are even good at it, imagine that.

 

[kerouac9]

K9, you are really stretching here. This is NOTHING like switching hands. I shouldn't have to elaborate here. If you have quick feet and hands, you should be able to play both sides of the ball well. Granted, Thomas would definitely be better starting off at LT, there is nothing to say that he would be a BAD RT.

It is not like asking him to change positions after he has already played in the NFL for years...... but oh wait, that happens too. Some players are even good at it, imagine that.

Based on what? It happens, but you don't see Tony Boselli, or Jonathan Ogden, or Walter Jones, or Orlando Pace being asked to move around all the time, do you? Yes, some mid-first round LTs are asked to switch places to get them started (like Jordan Gross in Carolina or Jammal Brown in New Orleans), but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Also, it tends to be done because there's an established player on the left side of the offensive line already (Barry Sims in Oakland or Wayne Gandy in New Orleans again).

Look at how well switching sides worked out for Robert Gallery. Jordan Gross has been switched between the positions multiple times, and while he's a near Pro-Bowl caliber RT, he struggles at LT and looks quite mediocre.

None of this changes the fact that you get a left tackle to protect against the defense's best pass rusher, who 90% of the time plays at RDE, across from the LT. Very, very few teams have their best pass rusher on the opposite side, and there is not a single team in the NFL that switches their best pass blocker to the right tackle spot because their QB is left handed. Not one.

Offensive linemen learn their position by practicing over and over and over again. That establishes muscle memory. They work on their drop or their push and the footwork involved (it's very much like learning complex dance moves) over and over again. Ask a professional dancer how easy it is to suddenly follow instead of lead.

I'm not saying that Thomas would definitely be a bad RT. But I am saying is that if you're going to draft a player #1 overall, you should try and set him up for success, and you sound like you'd like to set him up to be the next Robert Gallery. I'd much prefer not to set this team back another 5 years.

But that's just me.

 

[Mitch]

Even if Detroit gets the #1...because they already have their premier RB in Kevin Jones, one would think Brady Quinn would be their choice.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I going to check but i think Thomas played RT last year at Wisconsin.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He was the LT as a junior also. But Wisky ran alot of unbalanced lines where he'd flip to the right side. But, the main reason none of the guys like Pace. Ogden, etc. were switched is because they were brought in to protect the QB's blindside. Which, for them, was the left side. I'm sure they all could have made the switch relatively easy if needed.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was the LT as a junior also. But Wisky ran alot of unbalanced lines where he'd flip to the right side. But, the main reason none of the guys like Pace. Ogden, etc. were switched is because they were brought in to protect the QB's blindside. Which, for them, was the left side. I'm sure they all could have made the switch relatively easy if needed.

Ogden didn't play LT as a rookie. They already had a LT IIRC he played guard his rookie year and then became the LT the next year. I remember that argument when we drafted Big and put him at guard that the exact same thing was done with Ogden.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Ogden didn't play LT as a rookie. They already had a LT IIRC he played guard his rookie year and then became the LT the next year. I remember that argument when we drafted Big and put him at guard that the exact same thing was done with Ogden.

Point...Set.....Match

 

[kerouac9]

Sigh. Do I have to go through the list of players that didn't switch when their teams brought in Leftys in relief? I'm kind of getting tired of it. Chris Samuels never switched when Brunell came in for Patrick Ramsey. The Falcons didn't change their O-line peronnel when southpaw Vick came in for Chris Chandler. The Bucs didn't flip Kenyatta Walker when Chris Simms stepped in for righty Brian Griese. Going back, the San Francisco 49ers offensive line transitioned seamlessly between righty Joe Montana and southpaw Steve Young.

It has nothing to do with that team's quarterback's blindside as much as the usual blindside for most of the quarterbacks in the NFL--who tend to be righties. If anyone remains unclear about this, they should check out the book Blindside, which partly explains the phonoemena of the Left Tackle going from least paid player on the team to being paid like a star quarterback.