ESPN Believes Cards Can Be a Quick Rebuild.

Zalixar

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It's a perfectly fine thing to hate. It's not a perfectly fine thing to complain about, or complain about doing, when you knew the score going in.

I've heard several actors over the years complain about having to do media tours flying all over the world to promote their latest blockbuster. Like it's not a known part of the job and something they would have snatched at gleefully starting out.

They can complain if they want, it is a free country. Sometimes it can get tiresome cause they are rich, but I'm sure more are bothered on the day to day living.

But the comparison to start is not even similar to begin with. Picking a profession where there job is to solely be in the limelight, vs say someone wants to grow up and play sports. Part of the limelight is in the deal sure, but it's not the primary factor (mediawise). He does what he's required. Let the man play football. Isn't that really what it's all about?

Getting kinda in obsessive territory there buddy, ngl.
 
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Krangodnzr

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I agree with the two year plan. I just think 2023 is going to be a slog but to a variety of factors. This team is really building for 2024
A good personnel department can get the team back on track this offseason. If the draft can pull out 3-4 starters, and a player or two that plays fairly regularly and free agency can find a few OL that aren't embarrassing and resign their own free agents, the Cardinals can be better than this past year by a good margin. Win 7 to 9 games better. And then in 2024 have a midrange 1st rounder and be ready win a ton of cap space.
 

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They can complain if they want, it is a free country. Sometimes it can get tiresome cause they are rich, but I'm sure more are bothered on the day to day living.

But the comparison to start is not even similar to begin with. Picking a profession where there job is to be in the limelight, vs say someone wants to grow up and play sports. Part of the limelight is in the deal sure, but it's not the primary factor. He does what he's required. Let the man play football. Isn't that really what it's all about?

Getting kinda in obsessive territory there buddy, ngl.

If you're getting strait A's your folks are going to be more chill about your room not being tidy. If not they are going to get on your case about everything.

Same goes for Kyler. People will let him skate on the things he's not doing that everyone else does if he's playing great. If he isn't people are going to pick you up on the other stuff.

Being the superstar, highly paid, starting NFL QB comes with certain responsibilities to the franchise and community and Kyler isn't fulfilling them. That's not cool any time, but it wouldn't be a big issue without all the football stuff being pretty bad.
 

Zalixar

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If you're getting strait A's your folks are going to be more chill about your room not being tidy. If not they are going to get on your case about everything.

Same goes for Kyler. People will let him skate on the things he's not doing that everyone else does if he's playing great. If he isn't people are going to pick you up on the other stuff.

Being the superstar, highly paid, starting NFL QB comes with certain responsibilities to the franchise and community and Kyler isn't fulfilling them. That's not cool any time, but it wouldn't be a big issue without all the football stuff being pretty bad.

There really hasn't been criticism in that regard about "community" or lack of responsibilities/media exposure in greater Phoenix area, or really anywhere except here, and mostly by you. So perhaps....just perhaps it's not quite an issue? Mountain out of a mole hill?
 

Stout

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A good personnel department can get the team back on track this offseason. If the draft can pull out 3-4 starters, and a player or two that plays fairly regularly and free agency can find a few OL that aren't embarrassing and resign their own free agents, the Cardinals can be better than this past year by a good margin. Win 7 to 9 games better. And then in 2024 have a midrange 1st rounder and be ready win a ton of cap space.
You're saying this team can achieve 11 to 13 wins? Do you really think a stellar draft--yes, that would be a stellar draft--and a few OL starters and re-signing our own free agents gets us to a possible 4 loss season? I don't, not by a long shot. Also, what you described isn't a simple get back on track offseason, but a grand slam home run.
 

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A good personnel department can get the team back on track this offseason. If the draft can pull out 3-4 starters, and a player or two that plays fairly regularly and free agency can find a few OL that aren't embarrassing and resign their own free agents, the Cardinals can be better than this past year by a good margin. Win 7 to 9 games better. And then in 2024 have a midrange 1st rounder and be ready win a ton of cap space.
Dude. This is unhinged. The Cards currently have five picks in the 2023 NFL draft. Even if they get three mid- to late-round compensatory picks, expecting half of them to be year one starters is wild.

One-score game luck reversion alone should provide two wins or so (the most positive spin on this is "better late-game management by an experienced and professional coaching staff").

The other problem is that if you get a few OL that aren't embarrassing and re-sign free agents, you're necessarily going to have significantly less cap space in 2024 than currently projected.
 

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A good personnel department can get the team back on track this offseason. If the draft can pull out 3-4 starters, and a player or two that plays fairly regularly and free agency can find a few OL that aren't embarrassing and resign their own free agents, the Cardinals can be better than this past year by a good margin. Win 7 to 9 games better. And then in 2024 have a midrange 1st rounder and be ready win a ton of cap space.
Are you saying a good off-season can jump us from 4 total wins to 7-9 total wins or that we can make a jump to 11-13 wins?

If Kyler wasn’t hurt and we got a coach who had the skeleton key to unlock all his potential and we had a great off-season, there’s a world where a jump to 11-13 wins would be possible. Not probable but possible. But with his injury, and our needs everywhere, even with a bananas great off-season, jumping to 7-9 wins is probably what we’re looking at best case, much like Seattle this year.
 

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You're saying this team can achieve 11 to 13 wins? Do you really think a stellar draft--yes, that would be a stellar draft--and a few OL starters and re-signing our own free agents gets us to a possible 4 loss season? I don't, not by a long shot. Also, what you described isn't a simple get back on track offseason, but a grand slam home run.

Are you saying a good off-season can jump us from 4 total wins to 7-9 total wins or that we can make a jump to 11-13 wins?

If Kyler wasn’t hurt and we got a coach who had the skeleton key to unlock all his potential and we had a great off-season, there’s a world where a jump to 11-13 wins would be possible. Not probable but possible. But with his injury, and our needs everywhere, even with a bananas great off-season, jumping to 7-9 wins is probably what we’re looking at best case, much like Seattle this year.
Where are either of you getting 11 to 13 wins? I said 7 to 9 wins. I think the Cardinals can improve upon their 1-6 record in one score games.
 

kerouac9

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Are you saying a good off-season can jump us from 4 total wins to 7-9 total wins or that we can make a jump to 11-13 wins?

If Kyler wasn’t hurt and we got a coach who had the skeleton key to unlock all his potential and we had a great off-season, there’s a world where a jump to 11-13 wins would be possible. Not probable but possible. But with his injury, and our needs everywhere, even with a bananas great off-season, jumping to 7-9 wins is probably what we’re looking at best case, much like Seattle this year.
I mean, Seattle was 7-10 in 2021 and 9-8 in 2022. Their result is basically that we got worse and LARM got worse.
 

Cheesebeef

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Where are either of you getting 11 to 13 wins? I said 7 to 9 wins. I think the Cardinals can improve upon their 1-6 record in one score games.
You said “Win 7 to 9 games better.” We and K9 were confused and questioned if you meant 7 to 9 games better than last year or a ceiling of 7 to 9 wins total.

4 + 7/9 = 11/13.
 

Krangodnzr

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Dude. This is unhinged. The Cards currently have five picks in the 2023 NFL draft. Even if they get three mid- to late-round compensatory picks, expecting half of them to be year one starters is wild.
Cardinals are likely getting 3 compensatory picks to include a third round pick.

So if round one, round two, and one of the 3rd round picks is an immediate starter....that would be three starters.
One-score game luck reversion alone should provide two wins or so (the most positive spin on this is "better late-game management by an experienced and professional coaching staff").
Exactly.
The other problem is that if you get a few OL that aren't embarrassing and re-sign free agents, you're necessarily going to have significantly less cap space in 2024 than currently projected.
The Cardinals are slated to have $66 million in cap space. This won't be an issue.
 

Krangodnzr

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You said “Win 7 to 9 games better.” We and K9 were confused and questioned if you meant 7 to 9 games better than last year or a ceiling of 7 to 9 wins total.

4 + 7/9 = 11/13.
LOL misunderstanding. Sometimes that happens on forums like this.

I don't think the roster is good, but it's also not as dire as some think. There are some pieces, it's not a Jacksonville level rebuild.
 

Totally_Red

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LOL misunderstanding. Sometimes that happens on forums like this.

I don't think the roster is good, but it's also not as dire as some think. There are some pieces, it's not a Jacksonville level rebuild.
Right there are pieces. The problem is a lack of depth which showed up big time with the injuries last season. The dearth of young talent due to Keim's horrible drafting makes it a 2 year not a 1 year.
 

Krangodnzr

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Right there are pieces. The problem is a lack of depth which showed up big time with the injuries last season. The dearth of young talent due to Keim's horrible drafting makes it a 2 year not a 1 year.
Few teams are going to be successful with THAT level of injuries. When the Cardinals were healthy, the depth was fairly solid. It's hard to replenish depth when you're bringing in street players to fill out so much of the roster.
 

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Kyler question as the thread is leaning that way...

When was the last time Kyler appeared on any TV show or podcast? I see other QB's all the time. Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Rodgers, Brady, Dak, Cousins, Lamar etc I see them regularly on Rich Eisen, Pat McAfee, various podcasts and so on.

Kyler is in year 4 and I don't recall seeing him on anything since the 2019 draft disasters.

That's not good. It speaks of a guy that thinks that either he is above all that or is so reclusive he avoids speaking. Does anyone recall any starting NFL QB. Especially a #1 pick, being so elusive of the media?

As a fan I don't know him at all. There are 3 things I know about him. He plays football, he likes playing video games and he lives in Texas as much as he can. After 4 years that seems pretty poor.
I’d be elusive with the media too if all they did was trash me 24/7 for the last year or so. Even if I don’t agree with you I typically respect your takes/knowledge but this is a dumb take.
 

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People rarely pick up on the things not being done. Either way it's very obviously not happening and it's very obviously a very unique thing in the NFL. And anyone with any balance should be concerned that their starting QB has some uniquely negative traits.

Only someone deluding themselves would say that their QB not doing any media, PR, community or charity work in 4 years is a good thing.
Might wanna check your charity claims. He does plenty. Just doesn’t publicize it. Clearly you despise him. Your right to do so but don’t make **** up to cement your narrative
 

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A good personnel department can get the team back on track this offseason. If the draft can pull out 3-4 starters, and a player or two that plays fairly regularly and free agency can find a few OL that aren't embarrassing and resign their own free agents, the Cardinals can be better than this past year by a good margin. Win 7 to 9 games better. And then in 2024 have a midrange 1st rounder and be ready win a ton of cap space.
I didn’t expand on my point and I think we are close to the same in what we think can happen although I am not sure 9 wins in 2023 is likely. 6-8 feels like a decent guess and in my mind that is pretty much everything going right. In 2024, I could see 10-12 wins but only if the new staff is able to unlock Kyler
 

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I didn’t expand on my point and I think we are close to the same in what we think can happen although I am not sure 9 wins in 2023 is likely. 6-8 feels like a decent guess and in my mind that is pretty much everything going right. In 2024, I could see 10-12 wins but only if the new staff is able to unlock Kyler
9 wins would be a very good year considering what has transpired. That's my most optimistic outlook.

The #1 priority for the Cardinals organization from the cooks in the cafeteria to Michael Bidwill is getting Kyler Murray back to being Kyler Murray. He sucked last year for a multitude of reasons, but he has to get better at the things he can control. You know like, not fumbling when he is scrambling around and throwing more accurate deep balls.
 

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Thank you. Someone get's it. You got exactly what I mean.

What you do off the field not only tells us who you are as a person but how much you care about this very unique and priviledged position you have been given. If you can't lead the franchise off the field how can you lead it on it?

Look what Burrow has done for the Bengals. That franchise was a laughing stock and one of the worst in the league and what he has done there to revitalise that franchise is not only down to what he has done on the field but what he has done off it. People like Joe Burrow, so they like the Bengals by association. Burrow has given that Org credibility. If Joe Burrow just showed up and played football then went home and didn't work in the community and make himself available to fans and the media like he does he wouldn't have achieved what he has.

I don't know how people can say this doesn't matter at all. The QB is the figurehead of the organisation. The player that will always draw the most attention. It's encumbant on them to promote the Cardinals brand. To represent this organisation off the field as much as on it. To inspire a bunch of kids across the nation to be Kyler Murray fans and thus become Cadinals fans. It wouldn't suprise me if there were more young kids in Arizona that wear Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes or Joe Burrow shirts.

Even on a most basic level fans would be more forgiving of his poor form if we had some kind of connection to him or felt he had any connection or love for the fans or the Org or the state. The fans in Buffalo put up with Josh Allens rough seasons because they liked him as a person. It gave him leeway.

Let me ask people this. What excuse could he possibly have for there not being 40 examples (or even just 20) in his 4 years in Arizona or his doing work in the community? What possible excuse could he have for us not being able to pull up a long list of "Kyler visits sick children in hospital" or "Kyler Murray appears at Arizona charity event" or even "Kyler Murray hosts youth football weekend for underpriviledged kids". Hell he could even make it all about himself and have a "Kyler Murray charity softball game" like Larry did and get to hit a few balls. He has no wife and kids to take up his time.

I'd settle for anything that indicates he gives the slightest crap about this Org and it's not just a job he turns up to do and could just as easily be Denver, or Houston, or Tennesee.

People keep saying I don't like Kyler and anything he does I'd find fault with. I don't know him to like him or not. After 4 years I know as much about him as the day we drafted him. He's the guy at the office that doesn't mix with anyone so the only thing I have to judge him on is his work.
BC, I'm gonna chime in on this as delicately as I can without going off the rails of the general discussion, but it is EXTREMELY dangerous to put expectations on these pro athletes. I agree that we would all love a civic-minded person whose heart and priorities are squarely in the right place, but in some cases (many cases actually) these people that we "idolize" as fans just plain old aren't good people. Kyler is paid to play football, that's it. The expectations as fans that we have is that the highly paid and privileged beyond anything that we as "regular" people will never know, is that they show heart, and compassion for others and make a positive and visible difference in the communities they become a part of through the city they play in.

You made a point about a meager amount of money he has put out, but do we really know everything he has done since he's come to AZ? Not everything is visible and in plain sight. Remember when some on the board roasted D-Hop for giving free water to impoverished residents? I was ecstatic to see him do that, while others derided the gesture because of how rich he is. I'll shut up, and not be extra on the issue because I agree with a lot that you have said in this thread, but having grown up in some not so idea surroundings and having seen some things in life that I'd rather forget, I'm not naive enough to expect money to change how people innately are. Comparing Kyler to Josh Allen and Joe Burrow OFF THE FIELD" is totally unfair and unwarranted for the sake of us wanting him to be a better qb on it. If this man never gave one thin dime to charity but had us in an NFC championship game every year, you know full well 98% of the fanbase would be JUST fine with that. I refuse to give these people more merit as humans than they deserve. All I ask is that you be a professional and not hurt people or embaraass the organization. If you're an awesome person beyond that (because I LOVE awesome peope) then I will love you that much more as a fan. Otherwise, when you leave that field and put on street clothes, do you.
 

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Thank you. Someone get's it. You got exactly what I mean.

What you do off the field not only tells us who you are as a person but how much you care about this very unique and priviledged position you have been given. If you can't lead the franchise off the field how can you lead it on it?

Look what Burrow has done for the Bengals. That franchise was a laughing stock and one of the worst in the league and what he has done there to revitalise that franchise is not only down to what he has done on the field but what he has done off it. People like Joe Burrow, so they like the Bengals by association. Burrow has given that Org credibility. If Joe Burrow just showed up and played football then went home and didn't work in the community and make himself available to fans and the media like he does he wouldn't have achieved what he has.

I don't know how people can say this doesn't matter at all. The QB is the figurehead of the organisation. The player that will always draw the most attention. It's encumbant on them to promote the Cardinals brand. To represent this organisation off the field as much as on it. To inspire a bunch of kids across the nation to be Kyler Murray fans and thus become Cadinals fans. It wouldn't suprise me if there were more young kids in Arizona that wear Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes or Joe Burrow shirts.

Even on a most basic level fans would be more forgiving of his poor form if we had some kind of connection to him or felt he had any connection or love for the fans or the Org or the state. The fans in Buffalo put up with Josh Allens rough seasons because they liked him as a person. It gave him leeway.

Let me ask people this. What excuse could he possibly have for there not being 40 examples (or even just 20) in his 4 years in Arizona or his doing work in the community? What possible excuse could he have for us not being able to pull up a long list of "Kyler visits sick children in hospital" or "Kyler Murray appears at Arizona charity event" or even "Kyler Murray hosts youth football weekend for underpriviledged kids". Hell he could even make it all about himself and have a "Kyler Murray charity softball game" like Larry did and get to hit a few balls. He has no wife and kids to take up his time.

I'd settle for anything that indicates he gives the slightest crap about this Org and it's not just a job he turns up to do and could just as easily be Denver, or Houston, or Tennesee.

People keep saying I don't like Kyler and anything he does I'd find fault with. I don't know him to like him or not. After 4 years I know as much about him as the day we drafted him. He's the guy at the office that doesn't mix with anyone so the only thing I have to judge him on is his work.
yep. you extended my thoughts 10 times over :) I don't know him any better either, but i sure like Joe Burrow and i'm cardinal fan. why is that? And i'm meh on kyler. why? because i only know him based on the crappy experience i had to endure this year so I judge him on that even though i know the whole team pretty much sucked. Doesn't matter why they sucked (e.g. coaching, performance, talent, etc...). The end of the day, Kyler is now the guy "the face of the franchise".
 

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BC, I'm gonna chime in on this as delicately as I can without going off the rails of the general discussion, but it is EXTREMELY dangerous to put expectations on these pro athletes. I agree that we would all love a civic-minded person whose heart and priorities are squarely in the right place, but in some cases (many cases actually) these people that we "idolize" as fans just plain old aren't good people. Kyler is paid to play football, that's it. The expectations as fans that we have is that the highly paid and privileged beyond anything that we as "regular" people will never know, is that they show heart, and compassion for others and make a positive and visible difference in the communities they become a part of through the city they play in.

You made a point about a meager amount of money he has put out, but do we really know everything he has done since he's come to AZ? Not everything is visible and in plain sight. Remember when some on the board roasted D-Hop for giving free water to impoverished residents? I was ecstatic to see him do that, while others derided the gesture because of how rich he is. I'll shut up, and not be extra on the issue because I agree with a lot that you have said in this thread, but having grown up in some not so idea surroundings and having seen some things in life that I'd rather forget, I'm not naive enough to expect money to change how people innately are. Comparing Kyler to Josh Allen and Joe Burrow OFF THE FIELD" is totally unfair and unwarranted for the sake of us wanting him to be a better qb on it. If this man never gave one thin dime to charity but had us in an NFC championship game every year, you know full well 98% of the fanbase would be JUST fine with that. I refuse to give these people more merit as humans than they deserve. All I ask is that you be a professional and not hurt people or embaraass the organization. If you're an awesome person beyond that (because I LOVE awesome peope) then I will love you that much more as a fan. Otherwise, when you leave that field and put on street clothes, do you.
I get it, but i humbly disagree with "Kyler is paid to play football, that's it". He is paid to be the face of the franchise and play football. Just like Joe Burrow as an example that has already be laid out. That is the blueprint for a franchise QB imho. He does both.
 

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If you're getting strait A's your folks are going to be more chill about your room not being tidy. If not they are going to get on your case about everything.

Same goes for Kyler. People will let him skate on the things he's not doing that everyone else does if he's playing great. If he isn't people are going to pick you up on the other stuff.

Being the superstar, highly paid, starting NFL QB comes with certain responsibilities to the franchise and community and Kyler isn't fulfilling them. That's not cool any time, but it wouldn't be a big issue without all the football stuff being pretty bad.

From this, I can only gather that you weren't a straight-A student and suffered the consequences, or you're making a kid's life a living Hell. I have it on good authority that KM is fastidious*.

Pro-tip: if you let a straight-A student skate on the small stuff, it becomes big stuff... and A's soon disappear.

Kyler has responsibilities, and they are detailed in his contract; I remember a rather infamous study clause, now removed.

Beyond what is detailed in his agreement, it comes down to what he's comfortable with, and it's up to the PR department to work with him to help meet his responsibilities.

*Ok, I made this point up, but I'm not alone in making S-hite up about KM.
 
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SissyBoyFloyd

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LOL at title of this thread:

ESPN Believes Cards Can Be a Quick Rebuild.​


Its been 70+ years and we are still on our 1st rebuild. With the Cards, how does one know when one rebuild is finished and another one begins?
 

BritCard

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yep. you extended my thoughts 10 times over :) I don't know him any better either, but i sure like Joe Burrow and i'm cardinal fan. why is that? And i'm meh on kyler. why? because i only know him based on the crappy experience i had to endure this year so I judge him on that even though i know the whole team pretty much sucked. Doesn't matter why they sucked (e.g. coaching, performance, talent, etc...). The end of the day, Kyler is now the guy "the face of the franchise".

The sad part is I suspect that if he put himself out there more we'd find him likeable. Maybe even charming.

Its just disappointing there's such a disconnect with the fans. I feel like I knew Drew Stanton better.
 
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