Durant to Suns

[Hoop Head]

We disagree here. They were literally offered Butler, Kuminga and two first round picks a matter of months ago. That would have been a great haul for KD considering all of the above. That indicates there’s a solid market for him, IMO and better than settling on another big money player who will choke cap and still have us out of the playoffs with no assets moving forward to ever try and get better.

The salaries don't work for a KD trade bringing in Butler and Kuminga. We had to be sending someone else out, likely Dunn, to make it work financially. Butler and Kuminga is more than KD's salary.

KAT has been to back to back conference finals with different teams. He's been an All-Star and can play PF or C. KD is at the end of his career and has won 1 playoff series in 4 years.

 

[elindholm]

KAT is also a bad defender, and teammates don't seem to like him, and the Ishbia's would be stuck with him for 3 more years.

Despite that, Towns is a positive asset on his current contract. Look at the mega-contracts around the league and assess honestly how Towns measures up. Not great, but not bad.

 

[Mainstreet]

Despite that, Towns is a positive asset on his current contract. Look at the mega-contracts around the league and assess honestly how Towns measures up. Not great, but not bad.

And the trade would work under the CBA. The players need to fix this at the next negotiating session.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If that deal was really there, I agree it was better (probably, depending on the details of a potential Towns deal). But, to what aim? Butler will be 36 by the start of next season, so the real piece would be Kuminga, who is hard to figure.

I think the question is what the Suns can hope for over the next few seasons. They definitely aren't contending, but they can't rebuild because they don't have any high draft picks. They're unlikely to be able to get rid of Beal. They're not going to have any cap flexibility any time soon.

So the best-case scenario is that they maintain some credibility as a franchise. That's the ceiling. Towns is a good move in that direction. This isn't about planning for 2030. It's about getting to 2030 without having become an utter laughingstock.

I think we’re a 30 win team with Booker/Towns, while still being above second apron. That leaves us in laughingstock territory, IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Despite that, Towns is a positive asset on his current contract. Look at the mega-contracts around the league and assess honestly how Towns measures up. Not great, but not bad.

Towns will have been run out of two consecutive Conference Finald teams. That doesn’t sound like a positive asset. That sounds like a negative one successful teams can’t wait to get rid of.

 

[elindholm]

I think we’re a 30 win team with Booker/Towns, while still being above second apron. That leaves us in laughingstock territory, IMO.

I think they'd be more like 35-40, but even if it's 30, how is that worse than being a 25-win team with Booker/scraps?

Towns will have been run out of two consecutive Conference Finald teams. That doesn’t sound like a positive asset. That sounds like a negative one successful teams can’t wait to get rid of.

How a player has performed in the Conference Finals is of zero relevance to the Suns. You might as well ask how well they play on the moon.

 

[Dback Jon]

I think they'd be more like 35-40, but even if it's 30, how is that worse than being a 25-win team with Booker/scraps?



How a player has performed in the Conference Finals is of zero relevance to the Suns. You might as well ask how well they play on the moon.

I would gladly take a poor performance in the WCF from KAT if this trade meant the Suns made it that far

 

[GatorAZ]

Towns is a better player than KD now and going forward. KD is a 1v1 player at this point, he’s elite at that skill but his ball-handling and passing is downright atrocious. He can make plays on defense because of his length but he rarely gives a crap for more than a streak possessions. He’s also a passive aggressive personality that wears on everyone in the organization. You can say the same thing for Towns but he’s productive and durable at least.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think they'd be more like 35-40, but even if it's 30, how is that worse than being a 25-win team with Booker/scraps?

Because the hope is we could get draft picks or young talent (like we would have with Kuminga and two first rounders) to get better in the future as opposed to just trading KD to be in the exact same or likely worse position we are in now AND in no position to try to get better down the road with draft picks.

Making a lateral move at best by flipping KAT for KD is pointless both in the present and if you’re trying to plan for the future.

How a player has performed in the Conference Finals is of zero relevance to the Suns. You might as well ask how well they play on the moon.

Okay. We can just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[elindholm]

Because the hope is we could get draft picks or young talent (like we would have with Kuminga and two first rounders) to get better in the future as opposed to just trading KD to be in the exact same or likely worse position we are in now AND in no position to try to get better down the road with draft picks.

Sure, if that offer proves to be on the table.

Okay. We can just agree to disagree at this point.

I think we disagree only on what the offers are likely to be. Teams get uppity near the trade deadline and agree to thinks that they wouldn't during the offseason, and rumors can get a lot of artificial credibility through sheer repetition. Let's just wait and see what deal actually gets made. I don't think a Towns-plus-nothing trade is much good, but I also don't expect them to be able to do much better.

 

[Phrazbit]

Towns is a better player than KD now and going forward. KD is a 1v1 player at this point, he’s elite at that skill but his ball-handling and passing is downright atrocious. He can make plays on defense because of his length but he rarely gives a crap for more than a streak possessions. He’s also a passive aggressive personality that wears on everyone in the organization. You can say the same thing for Towns but he’s productive and durable at least.

This is a dead on analysis of KD. Great in 1v1s, but it isn't the early 2000s anymore, with the pace and ball movement, that is not something that wins games, and while he CAN play great defense, he only does so when he is engaged, and when he isn't engaged he often doesn't even bother to get back, especially if it's just after he missed a shot. And, as you mention, among high volume shooters, his only parallel when to comes to terrible passing and ball handling in the current NBA is Kyle Kuzma.

 

[Yuma]

do they have 110 mil in salary to send back?

$110 plus 54.7 for KD, $164.7 roughly.

 

[Yuma]

Towns played 72 games last season, posted 24/13, shot 40% from three, and is 29 years old. I'm not sure what your point is.

Supposedly the new regime wants defense. KAT is the opposite of that player they SAY they want in PHX. Arguably old Durant plays better at the rim defense than KAT. This would be a good litmus test. If they take KAT in a trade, then they are really not sincere on the type of player and team they want to build in PHX.

That's the reason NY wants to trade KAT. Defense, or lack of it.

 

[Yuma]

Despite that, Towns is a positive asset on his current contract. Look at the mega-contracts around the league and assess honestly how Towns measures up. Not great, but not bad.

Supposedly under this CBA, Bobby Marks was pointing out that you can have one APLHA salary, and then one B level player salary. A star and sidekick if you will, salary wise. Then you have to have a lot of young guys and cheaper vets. That is to play under both caps, luxury tax, etc. So the downside to KAT is that puts Book + KAT right back into that first apron, and if we have Beal still, back into the second apron. Which trading KD we want to get under the second apron plus assets. Unless our squad was smart enough to line up a separate trade to flip Kat later for more assets.

 

[elindholm]

Supposedly the new regime wants defense. KAT is the opposite of that player they SAY they want in PHX. Arguably old Durant plays better at the rim defense than KAT. This would be a good litmus test. If they take KAT in a trade, then they are really not sincere on the type of player and team they want to build in PHX.

Any talk of what they are "trying to build" over the next few years is meaningless.

The Suns' goal for the short term is survival. Anything that manages to run a few years off of the calendar while leaving the franchise basically intact is a win.

I have a relative who had antibiotic-resistant diverticulitis, and eventually had to undergo an emergency sigmoidectomy with the creation of a temporary ostomy. It's not pretty, but it's what you do to survive. While your disgestive system is recovering, your goal is to get to the point where your body can be put back together. That's it. The Suns are about to enter the ostomy phase. Set your expectations accordingly.

 

[elindholm]

Which trading KD we want to get under the second apron plus assets.

Sure, of course, but I think that's incredibly unlikely.

 

[Yuma]

Any talk of what they are "trying to build" over the next few years is meaningless.

The Suns' goal for the short term is survival. Anything that manages to run a few years off of the calendar while leaving the franchise basically intact is a win.

I have a relative who had antibiotic-resistant diverticulitis, and eventually had to undergo an emergency sigmoidectomy with the creation of a temporary ostomy. It's not pretty, but it's what you do to survive. While your disgestive system is recovering, your plan is to get to the point where your body can be put back together. That's it. The Suns are about to enter the ostomy phase. Set your expectations accordingly.

Except I assume your relative has a comptent doctor overseeing all this. Do you think our doctor (new GM) is that good? It remains to be seen, but essentially our doctor is going to perform their first surgery. I would want a second opinion.

Wishing the best for your relative!

 

[elindholm]

Except I assume your relative has a comptent doctor overseeing all this. Do you think our doctor (new GM) is that good? It remains to be seen, but essentially our doctor is going to perform their first surgery. I would want a second opinion.

Wishing the best for your relative!

That argument makes no sense. It sounds like you're saying that we can't trust the GM to achieve a realistic goal, so instead we should set unrealistic ones.

My relative is recovering well; thanks for asking.

 

[Bufalay]

Any talk of what they are "trying to build" over the next few years is meaningless.

The Suns' goal for the short term is survival. Anything that manages to run a few years off of the calendar while leaving the franchise basically intact is a win.

I have a relative who had antibiotic-resistant diverticulitis, and eventually had to undergo an emergency sigmoidectomy with the creation of a temporary ostomy. It's not pretty, but it's what you do to survive. While your disgestive system is recovering, your goal is to get to the point where your body can be put back together. That's it. The Suns are about to enter the ostomy phase. Set your expectations accordingly.

Or you could rely on the discovery of a miracle treatment (Nico Harrison).

*glad to hear your relative is recovering well.

 

[Yuma]

That argument makes no sense. It sounds like you're saying that we can't trust the GM to achieve a realistic goal, so instead we should set unrealistic ones.

My relative is recovering well; thanks for asking.

Im saying it could be even worse than the seasons you are saying we should brace for. Much worse.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The kicker of the “what Durant is really worth” argument right now is it’s going to be near impossible to tell what’s truth and what’s fiction because we have such a woefully unqualified GM/Owner pulling the trigger on the trade.

If the bounty back sucks, you’ll have the Durant Is The Devil crowd say “I told you he was near worthless!” while the Durant could still net us solid building blocks will be able to say “This is why having a novice GM is a disaster.”

 

[Superbone]

The kicker of the “what Durant is really worth” argument right now is it’s going to be near impossible to tell what’s truth and what’s fiction because we have such a woefully unqualified GM/Owner pulling the trigger on the trade.

If the bounty back sucks, you’ll have the Durant Is The Devil crowd say “I told you he was near worthless!” while the Durant could still net us solid building blocks will be able to say “This is why having a novice GM is a disaster.”

Get ready to enjoy our magic beans.

 

[Ronin]

Knicks reportedly attempted to trade for Kevin Durant this season, could revisit deal amid offseason changes

The Knicks reportedly tried to get Durant at the NBA trade deadline. Could they try to make a blockbuster offseason deal?

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Listening to Gambo. There is some speculation that Durant could end up on the Spurs.

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[Raindog]

Listening to Gambo. There is some speculation that Durant could end up on the Spurs.

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So it sounds like the deal for Vassell +14 could have real legs. I would hope we might get something else besides that, possibly some future picks as well. If that's the best we can do, at least it's a start.

I really wish we would also be moving Booker for a stock of younger players plus picks, but it sounds like there's no chance of that now. We better hit it out of the park on ALL of the picks we currently have or else we are back to those Suns teams of 2015-2019 except without the benefit of having our own high picks.